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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Newbie T5 Question -

A question regarding the T5, and the free spinning of the input shaft.

I was spinning the input shaft with my hand while the transmission was in neutral, and it was spinning freely. Good Stuff

I then put the transmission in gear (any gear), and the input shaft was still spinning with little resistance. Each gear I picked, the input shaft would spin, and the output shaft would spin too.

The output shaft was even spinning when it was in neutral while I was turning the input shaft.

I guess I thought that there would be considerable resistance when placing in a gear, and didn't think that the output shaft would spin when in neutral.

What's the deal? Please enlighten me.




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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:58 AM
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It's just drag from the syncros, bearing, lube and such...normal You should be able to hold the output shaft from turning while in neutral but should feel solidly connected while in gear. You won't feel much resistance at the input shaft when in gear so I suspect all is well.


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 02:54 AM
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Have you dialed in the bellhousing? Important step.
Best
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobl View Post
It's just drag from the syncros, bearing, lube and such...normal You should be able to hold the output shaft from turning while in neutral but should feel solidly connected while in gear. You won't feel much resistance at the input shaft when in gear so I suspect all is well.
Agreed.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobl View Post
It's just drag from the syncros, bearing, lube and such...normal You should be able to hold the output shaft from turning while in neutral but should feel solidly connected while in gear. You won't feel much resistance at the input shaft when in gear so I suspect all is well.
Okay, thanks Bob and Craig.

I don't want to be looking for problems with my transmission; but I also don't want to install it and find out there's a problem if I can diagnose it now.

I've never dug this deep into a car's inner workings before. Very cool stuff, and learning a lot

My Plan: The bearing retainer is steel, so I'm going to clean it up and reinstall (cleaned up well last night), reuse the clutch fork and pivot ball. New throw out bearing and thinking about new seals for front and back.



Quote:
Originally Posted by picah View Post
Have you dialed in the bellhousing? Important step.
Best
Ron
Hi Ron, I don't know what "dialing in a bellhousing" is referring to. I haven't removed the bellhousing from the donor transmission, so I should be good. Thanks.


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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
I don't know what "dialing in a bellhousing" is referring to. I haven't removed the bellhousing from the donor transmission, so I should be good. Thanks.
Not exactly. Dialing the bellhousing means confirming the transmission mounting hole on the bell housing is in exact alignment with the engine driveshaft. That way your transmission input shaft is correctly aligned with the pilot bearing in the crankshaft. Explained pretty well in this video.


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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Explained pretty well in this video.
So, if I understand correctly; it appears that I need to remove the bellhousing from the transmission. Mount the bell housing onto the motor to dial it in properly. Make adjustments to be sure that the input shaft aligns properly with the pilot bearing. At the point of falling within 0.005" tolerance, can then mount the transmission to the bell housing.

Thanks Ron and Paul

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
So, if I understand correctly; it appears that I need to remove the bellhousing from the transmission. Mount the bell housing onto the motor to dial it in properly. Make adjustments to be sure that the input shaft aligns properly with the pilot bearing. At the point of falling within 0.005" tolerance, can then mount the transmission to the bell housing.
Correct. But adjustment may not be required. I've done two SBF builds, and both measured within spec with no adjustment.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:38 PM
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So Dave, you have a donor bellhousing and transmission that have lived happily together for many years and tens of thousands of miles, right? If that's the case I don't think I'd be too concerned with "dialing in"...especially since it's a moot point being that there are no provisions for adjustment with the OEM parts!

Jeff
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKleiner View Post
So Dave, you have a donor bellhousing and transmission that have lived happily together for many years and tens of thousands of miles, right? If that's the case I don't think I'd be too concerned with "dialing in"...especially since it's a moot point being that there are no provisions for adjustment with the OEM parts!

Jeff
Yup save yourself the time to do something else. I have even swapped out trannys same bell housing no issue.


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKleiner View Post
So Dave, you have a donor bellhousing and transmission that have lived happily together for many years and tens of thousands of miles, right? If that's the case I don't think I'd be too concerned with "dialing in"...especially since it's a moot point being that there are no provisions for adjustment with the OEM parts!

Jeff
Sorry - not meaning at all to challenge the experts (as I am surely not of that caliber !!), but does this mean that there were no alignment dowels in the original (OEM) block? Just having trouble wrapping my brain around that. It appears from the OP's video there are dowel holes in the BH. Color me moderately confused.
Best
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:56 AM
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Sorry - not meaning at all to challenge the experts (as I am surely not of that caliber !!), but does this mean that there were no alignment dowels in the original (OEM) block? Just having trouble wrapping my brain around that. It appears from the OP's video there are dowel holes in the BH. Color me moderately confused.
Best
Ron
There are alignment dowels in block for bell housing, the trans then just bolts to bell housing.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
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There are alignment dowels in block for bell housing, the trans then just bolts to bell housing.
I guess that's my point. With regard to the original poster, if his OEM block has alignment dowels and his BH did not come with that block, it would seem that checking the BH run-out would be a good thing to do. If it checks out in spec all is great and he proceeds. If the BH is out, then misalignment dowel pins can be used to get it into spec. Add clutch using alignment tool, bolt up the tranny, and good to go. In my build (T5, QT BH, FE) I was told that the dial-in process would not be necessary. Went through the process to be sure, and while it was close, it was not in spec. Feel much better having done it and put it in spec. In consideration of the time and dedication required to build an entire car, why not take the time to check? OOMV.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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Dave,
You're not confused. So many people have put so many weird combinations together, that some had issues. This is especially true when you install an after market "explosion proof" bell housing. If the motor /trans have been together for thousands of miles, and have had no issues, then put this "dialing in" information in your "good to know" file. IMO.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 05:13 PM
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And a very good choice to use the steel bearing retainer! The aluminum one's wear and make pedal effort hardest and uneven. Just nae sure you grease it at install for the throwout to slide easy.

I have swapped engines, clutches, and transmissions, oddly keeping my donor bellhousing from when I built mine in 2004. Only original driveline part left, except the driveshaft and rear. Never any alignment issues.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Becuase I acquired this bellhousing and engine with my purchase of the Roadster, I don't know if this bell housing was mated up to this particular motor. And since I'm doing this build to learn, I decided to give the "dial in your bellhousing" a try.

FIRST, what a pain in the butt to get this think lined up to even start the dialing in. It took me over an hour to get it good to go. Part of the reason was that the pivot ball in the housing continually hit my stand and I didn't realize that was the problem for quite a while. Once I took the pivot ball out, I could get it in a position (after many more trials) to rotate without problem.

So I started at 12oclock and zeroed it out. Went to 9 oclock and got +.007 Went to 6 oclock and got +0.010 At three oclock I got +0.003 and finally 0.000 again when back at 12 oclock.

So I'm 0.004 from left to rignt and 0.010 up and down. From what I'm seeing, the offset dowels come in 0.007" which gives it a 0.014" overall offset

If putting this offset right at 12oclock, that should give a +0.004 at the 12 oclock position and 0.000 at the 6 oclock postion. i'll keep the side to side postion the same.

I'm not excited about putting in these dowel pins (or whatever they're called). It is taking out the old ones that has me less than enthusiastic.

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The numbers are already written on the housing in these photos because when taking the photos, I'm actually checking to see if I get duplicate numbers (measure twice) that match the first rotation..












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Last edited by DadofThree; 03-19-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:17 AM
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dowel pin removal -when all else fails

Been there. Done that. Hope that you don't need to go to this length, but just in case:

Bell housing dowel out – Hurray !! – Here’s how

Also, try these dowel pins - much better than the standard IMHO:

RobbMc Performance Products - Bellhousing Alignment Dowels
part number 1014 for most ford engines (read product application carefully)

Best,
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Been there. Done that. Hope that you don't need to go to this length, but just in case:

Bell housing dowel out – Hurray !! – Here’s how
Seeing that thread makes me want to button this thing up as it is

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:58 AM
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Seeing that thread makes me want to button this thing up as it is
Here is another opinion from 2012 Ford Racing Catalog

Out of round limit should be within .015".



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