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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel line check valve

I have an irritating issue with a cold start. When I do a warm start, no problem engine runs and starts fine all day. However if the engine is cold it will crank and crank with no attempt to start and the longer the car sits the harder it is to start. After a day or two it is usually not too much of an issue and it helps if I turn the key on and let the pump run for about 30 seconds before cranking the engine over. However if it sits for a week or two I have to dump fuel down the carb. to get it to fire off. Also I have a glass fuel filter just before the carb and noticed that the longer the car sits the lower the fuel shows in the glass filter and after a week there is no fuel in it at all. With all this said, I'm guessing the fuel is draining back to the tank. The solution would be an inline check valve at the tank. Has anyone had this issue and solve it with a check valve? If so what brand did you use?

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:13 PM
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What kind of fuel pump are you using? It sounds like you have a mechanical fuel pump and they have an internal check valve to stop fuel from back flowing. A bad fuel pump or a small air leak in the supply line could be causing your problem.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Norm, no leaks and fuel pump is in the tank. This car is pretty much all old school, simple 302, Holly carb, reg. dizzy, and auto trans, 8.8 solid axle rear end. Over the course of about a week or two the fuel drains out of the glass filter. If it sits for a few weeks and I pour some gas in the carb it will start right up other wise I have the start issues and takes a long time fire off.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 10:10 PM
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If you have an electric fuel pump in the tank it should run when you turn the key on and refill the carb. After the car sits for a while, try turning the key to run (don't try to start it) and listen for the fuel pump. After 10 seconds go ahead and try to start it. It should fire right up if your choke is set up correctly.

If it doesn't start either your choke isn't set correctly or the float is sticking in your carb.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 11:55 PM
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is the power valve blown? Letting fuel leak into the intake.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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That's what I've been doing but it seems to take longer then 10 sec. and then it doesn't always work. Do you think a check valve would help?

Buck
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 11:59 PM
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No check valve

you have another problem

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:28 AM
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I think, if the power valve was blown, it would be hard to start when hot ( flooded ) and would have a very strong smell of gasoline when shut down hot. Check for a sticky float or float valve.

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:39 AM
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The problem isn't fuel not staying in the line but rather fuel leaking out of the bowl.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 02:48 AM Thread Starter
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I hear what you guys are saying but why is the fuel in the glass filter going down. It is lower than the carb. I don't believe a bad carb of any sort can suck gas upward.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 05:00 AM
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If fuel drains or boils out of the carb then the float drops and the float valve opens. This lets air in the high point in the system and the fuel will drain back to the tank. Your fuel pump should be able to very quickly refill the lines and carb when the key is turned on. What kind of intank pump are you running and do you have a pressure regulator in your system?

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Hummm, just when I think I have one problem now I have several! I'm not sure of the brand of fuel pump but I installed it last year when the old one went bad. It was for an 89 Mustang GT fuel tank. I also took out the fuel pressure regulator about the same time, thinking this may have been part of the problem. These two things solved several other issues I had when I bought the car. The engine would sputter and stall at a light or stop and also if I mashed the peddle the engine would die. The new pump solved these issues but I still have this cold start issue which is more of an annoyance since it is almost always at home. It's just a pain to have to pop the air filter and squirt gas in the carb to get started quickly or let the pump run for a minute or two and then let it crank. Maybe some carb attention is in order or possible a rebuild or replacement. At least after I get it going it runs great.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 07:10 PM
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I have to agree with Jeff. Even if your fuel line drains out, the carb bowls should be full.

BTW, those glass filters are a fire hazard.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 11:49 PM
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OK let's review

You have a high pressure intake fuel pump for a 89 Mustang.

No fuel regulator.

38 to 40 psi on your Holley carb.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Yup that's about it.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 03:55 AM
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Please don't take offence. The way you are running now is dangerous.

Holley carbs require fuel pressure between 5 and 7 psi. You are way over pressuring your float valves. You can either get a pump with the proper pressure or a fuel pressure regulator and a pressure gauge and set the correct pressure. You probably need to rebuild the carb (I'll defer to the Holley experts on the forum about that).

I am running the same intank pump, a Mr Gasket return regulator and 3/8 feed and return lines. The carb is fed at a constant 5 psi. I used the EFI inline filter for the Mustang on the line between the pump and the regulator.

Please don't run it like it is currently setup anymore. You have a fire looking for a place to happen.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:41 AM
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First, I'm not an expert on anything


I think you need to rebuild the Holley. Or better yet get someone with a lot of experience to rebuild the Holley. Strange things could have happen inside with that amount of pressure.
And the carb leaks down while sitting.

Mr Norm B has the set up you need.

A large '90 model Mustang fuel filter close to the tank. A regulator near the carb with a 5/16" return line to the tank.


A glass fuel filter under the hood is an insurance claim waiting to happen.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWIGHT View Post
OK let's review

You have a high pressure intake fuel pump for a 89 Mustang.

No fuel regulator.

38 to 40 psi on your Holley carb.
I quick google and I came up w/ this as the first result.
Precision Fuel Pumps E16161 - Fuel Pump | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Look at the pressures in the "Additional Details". This is scaring me. You need to get a regulator back in the system. Whether it helps w/ your starting problems or not, you must have a pressure regulator.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Reinstalling the fuel regulator is easy enough but running a return line is going to be a problem. As far as I see there is no place to return from or to.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:17 PM
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https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/tech-h...ed-regulators/

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:33 PM
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No Regulator needed No return line needed

In the early 80s ford used an intank fuel pump rated at 4 to 5 psi out. I am running this on a 351w carb with no problems and no return line. The number I used was an APE A1068. It fits the mustang intank bracket.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, you guys scared me enough. Old school steel soup can type fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator going back in. IF everyone seems to think the fuel is boiling out of the bowl, would it help to install a thicker gasket under the carb.?

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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Yes, mine is about 3/8 inch thick.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 02:53 PM
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Before you go all crazy with new parts there is one electric fuel pump that goes in tank and only puts out about 6 psi. It was made for a carbed 1985 Ford F250 Ford Pickup. Just swap this one in and you will be good to go. You need to compress bracket to hold pump its diameter is a tad smaller than Mustang stock. I am still running stock 90's in line fuel filter with the 5/16th line. They are hard to find but a few are still available on the net. Rock auto lists them

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/f...fuel+pump,6256

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 04:18 PM
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The fuel pump suggested above should be used if not running a return regulator. The post 1986 Mustang pumps were designed for use with a return line and use fuel to cool the pump. The pumps life will be shortened significantly without a return.

I have a 1/2 spacer under the carb to stop fuel boiling. It is made of some kind of plastic. It helps a lot but, I have heard wood ones work even better. Plan to make one this spring and try it.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Humm, going from turning wrenches to wood shop, gotta be jack of all trades with these cars.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 06:13 PM
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I also use a spacer, this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1405/overview/


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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, I installed the pressure Regulator and added a clear plastic fuel filter. I had the chance to check the fuel pressure from the tank and only got 4.5 to 5 psi. the bad part is the reg. has bad fuel restriction, because it is back to taking about a 1 to 1.5 minutes to get fuel to the filter. The regulator is doing nothing but adding restriction. I conclude that I must have one of the Ford in tank fuel pumps that only puts out 5psi. and without the reg it takes a few seconds to fill the fuel filter. And by the way I did install the Holley heat shield under the carb. but haven't gone on along enough rid to get everything hot. I'm taking out the fuel regulator out and I think Ill be good to go.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 09:48 PM
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Engine temp

Joe E,
Just wondering what temp you engine is running at? I have the same carb, but a RPM air gap, Havent added a spacer as yet. My temp guage says 90 C, which is 194 F. I could easily put a 1/2 to 1" spacer now as I just installed the QFT-650.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Here is recap, right now I have one fuel line from the tank and in tank fuel pump puts out 4.5psi-5psi, clear plastic fuel filter just before the carb, I have added the Holley heat spacer under the Holly Carb. and now all my issues have gone away. The heat spacer from Holly did the trick, the kit supplies a thin gasket an aluminum shield, and a heat proof fiber spacer. All total about 3/8", the heat shield helps heat from rising straight up along the carb and the thick fiber spacer eliminates direct heat transfer from the intake to the carb base plate. Anyway it works for me. My start routine now is turn on the key to start the fuel pump but not turn over the engine and let it pump while I buckle up, mash the pedal once to set the electric choke and fire it off. It starts immediately every time regardless of how long it sets.
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