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Upper ball joints, UGH!

12K views 44 replies 23 participants last post by  VdubJoe 
#1 ·
Just about had it with these things. Crap ones that came with kit could only get 1/2 turn on one side and about 1 1/2 turns on other, NO way was I going to be able to screw them down no matter how much heat/cold I applied. Knew there were problems so went ahead and ordered Moog k772 from Summit. One side went in ok but no way was going to get dust boot to stay on, and other side about 1 turn. And since cant get a dust boot to stay on (tapered shoulder instead of square) why bother.
Will fork out the dough for the Howe racing ones if they go in w/o destroying the upper a arm mounting threads and the boot will stay on. Anybody use these things recently? Recommendations, and sources.
Dam, never had this much difficuty on previous builds.
Rob
 
#2 ·
clean the powder coat out if the threads and use anti-seaze. A big pipe wrench will get them all the way in then tack weld them to keep them from spinning out.
 
#3 ·
Does no good to crank them all the way in if the dam dust boot wont stay on. No lip on the Moog ones to grab on to. It has a tapered edge. Am just going to return the Moog and get the Howe racing ones. Any idea which dust boot to use or can I use the boots from the Mevtech that F5 sent.
Rob
 
#4 · (Edited)
Yep just installed mine last weekend. Cleaned up threads and a pipe wrench and no problems. They did NOT go in easy though i needed a very large wrench and my dust boots seem to stick in place but not sure if there gonna work or not. I tried to install them in my bench vise and that was about a joke.
 
#9 ·
I too had trouble with the supplied Mevotech ball joints. They would just barely start threading and then lock solid. I tried freezing them. No difference. As mentioned here, I later saw where some guys have cleaned up the threads (wire brushing, wire wheel, whatever) and got them to work. But I didn't know about that at the time, and not sure it would have helped anyway. There was almost no thread definition on the parts. I wasn't really interested in more of the same, so purchased the Moog K772's. I had the same experience, even after several exchanges. One would work, another wouldn't. Very frustrating. I don't do pipe wrenches on these kinds of parts, and frankly if they take that much force something isn't right. I too ended up with the Howe Racing 22320S ball joints, and they thread on perfectly. Very high quality parts. Used a bunch of blue Loctite, torqued down tight, and paint marked them. I'll keep an eye on them to see if something more is needed to keep them from turning.

For the boots, check Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boots. That's the set you need. Less than $10 at Summit, whatever. Comes with four -- upper and lower. I didn't replace the lowers. They fit perfectly, and as already stated, once the spindle is on they stay in place.

Also used Energy Suspension 9.13101G O.E.M. Style Tie Rod End Boots. Pics of the completed assembly from my build thread.

 
#10 ·
Just did a K772 install 2 weeks ago. The threads were crap but...what I found is that the very first thread isn't really a thread. It doesn't spiral. So I removed it using the edge of a belt sander and then it screwed in fine. Boots won't lock onto the bottom of the joint but they work fine. Once you install the BJ onto the spindle the boot is 1/2 crushed between the top of the spindle and the underside of the BJ plate of the UCA. You can also get these Energy Suspension boots.
Upper
Energy Suspension 5.13102 Front Ball Joint Dust Boots

Lower
Energy Suspension 9-13130G
They won't lock onto the BJ either but are probably a better type of plastic than the ones that come w/ the BJ
 
#11 ·
I too will be ordering these boots. When fitting on the steering, one of the tie rod end boots tore at the base. I figured it was that I'm putting together an older model.
 
#13 ·
Yep, wire wheel the coating off of the ball joint threads and they will screw in without a fight. As mentioned, the boots are not designed to go over the shoulder on the UCA, only the end of the ball joint.

Jeff
 
#23 ·
How about the lower ball joints are they the same part number as the upper ball joint? Thanks, Bill Lomenick
No. Completely different parts.

Rich, you've been here for more than 8 years. Surely by now you know that sometimes you can't apply logic, science or physics to these discussions. Often what really matters is the perceived reality that "more $$=better". I'll go put on my Nomex now. Jeff
OK Jeff. Usually we agree. But I'm going to bite on this one since you have your Nomex on. Can't apply logic? How about this? Mevotech's wouldn't go on, and I tried everything I could think of and found on the forum at the time. Those UCA's supplied now are nice parts and I'm not going to jack them up trying to get a $20 ball joint installed on them. After seeing my experience wasn't unusual, tried Moog replacements from two sources and never could get more than one to thread on. One would go on either UCA. The others wouldn't go any either one. Gave up and bought the Howe Racing parts. Instant joy. Went on both UCA's without a hitch. I saw my choice as complete the build without upper ball joints (probably not the best choice) or bite the bullet and buy the Howe Racing parts. Are they better parts? I think so. Would I be able to tell the difference driving one car with the Howe Racing parts and the other with the stock parts? Some say yes. Personally I don't know. But it's kind of a moot point if I can't get them installed. Seems quite logical to me. :fire:
 
#21 ·
Ok, I'm from Missouri, show me. How can changing the upper ball joint make a BIG improvement in steering? The lower ball joint carries all the weight of the car, the upper holds the spindle, and wheel in alignment, thats it, no weight on it. I could see how changing out the lower would make a change in easier steering, it has the most load on it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Rich, you've been here for more than 8 years. Surely by now you know that sometimes you can't apply logic, science or physics to these discussions. Often what really matters is the percieved reality that "more $$=better". I'll go put on my Nomex now.

Jeff
 
#24 ·
Paul,
We're good! :yes:

BTW, I was out shopping with my 4 year old grandson yesterday and found something I want to send to you. PM your address and I'll get it in the mail on Monday.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
#25 ·
Edwardb
Received the Howe ball joints and YES they are worth it!!!
Could not agree,more with your last post, since I I had the exact same problem.
Now, did you torque, red/blue locktite, tach weld?
Rob
 
#28 ·
As others have already mentioned, I used a liberal dose of blue Loctite, cranked them as much as I could with a very large adjustable wrench, and then paint marked them. Once I'm on the road, I'll keep an eye on them and add a couple of welds if needed. I'm thinking they'll be fine though. From my current build:

 
#26 ·
Rob, I nominate your for an experiment. I think that the crap BJs coming unscrewed is due to the tremendous friction involved when they are turned. I am thinking that the Howes won't have that problem. How about try blue loctite, plus a paint mark that you can monitor. If by chance they start to move a weld bead is easy enough to do.
 
#30 ·
So if your ball joints are coming loose, you're making more left turns? Or wouldn't returning to the centre position turn the ball joints back again? Hmmm, maybe I need a few more beers while I consider this.
Cheers
Bill
 
#27 ·
Craig
Sounds reasonable. And you may be on to something.
NO way was I ever going to get the ball joints on unless I used a 12' cheater bar, and than would probably end up trashing the a arm threads!
Rob
 
#33 ·
My "no weld" method for assuring that the joints won't back out like Bob's is to install them with red Locktite then drill through the UCA into the joint and add a 1/8" spring pin to mechanically lock it in place. If the joint should ever need to be removed the pin can be pulled out. No worries about interference internally; it is well above the ball & socket in the grease chamber:



Jeff
 
#34 ·
I think it's more that nothing ever self tightens, they always self loosen. The effort to loosen the BJ is less than the effort needed to tighten it. So they just move in the loosen direction a tiny bit at a time.
 
#35 ·
Hmm...wonder if this is why my steering is so tight. I thought it's my new manual rack...(coming from power). I think I have the Moog installed...
 
#36 ·
Mine went on without much of a fight... well.... I put the ball joint in a bench vice and screwed the A-arm on with a little lube.

One was harder than the other, but neither was so hard that I couldn't spin the a-arm without using about 200 ftlbs or so of force. Considering how much force it takes to press in ball joints in press in style... it all seemed pretty reasonable to me.

I did note that the supplied factory style are very stiff and the whole steering is slow to return to center. Gradually getting better and parts break in.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I ran into similar issues when installing Levy's bump steer kit. The adjustable ball joints with that kit would not screw into the zero degree plates from SPC.

Well, one of them threaded in without any issues, the other would screw in a bit then stop.

I went through 5 different control arm plates from Summit before ordering another balljoint from Coleman racing. Same thing, I could not get them to smoothly thread together.

Then I called SPC Performance and shipped them two ball joints and two of my plates. I asked them to go through and keep trying until the found a combination that worked smoothly. The guy I worked with said it took a few tries, eventually found a control arm plate that worked fine with both of my ball joints and shipped the good parts back, they didn't charge me a dime.


Here is the best part, per the two people I talked to at SPC Performance, these ball joints when designed back in the day were never supposed to be screwed in. They said these are press in ball joints that can be screwed out, that is why people are experiencing so many variances in the threads.
 
#41 ·
...these ball joints when designed back in the day were never supposed to be screwed in. They said these are press in ball joints that can be screwed out, that is why people are experiencing so many variances in the threads.
Uh, no. I've been doing this for 40 years and worked on some of the old stuff that these ball joints were originally designed for (Chrysler products from the late 1950s up through the '80s). Press in joints press in AND out, screw in joints screw in AND out. Not in one way and out the other.

Jeff
 
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