EdwardB’s Mk4 #8674 20th Anniversary Build - Page 5 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #121 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dale View Post
Thanks for the great descriptions and part #'s along the way. I'll be doing another next summer with the 2015 engine. What is your pulley clearance to the front 4" cross-member?
You're welcome. I know how much I've appreciated other build threads providing this info, so just trying to pay forward. As for the pulley clearance, just measured it. Right at 3/4 of an inch. That's with the Whitby spacers on both sides. One caveat -- I don't have the transmission in yet. I have the engine sitting at 2 degrees down to the back, which should be very close. But however little it's off, if any, I'll be well away from the 4 inch chassis cross member.

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Originally Posted by bansheekev View Post
The best part about plumbing the radiator in the OEM configuration is how easy filling the system and burping is (actually you don't have to burp it at all).

All you do to fill the dry system is pour coolant into the overflow tank and let the fluid level drop, fill again and let it drop, repeat until it stops dropping. Fill to the full line, start the engine and let it idle until up to temperature and the thermostat opens. Top off the overflow tank and you are done...

Couldn't be easier... Kevin
That's one of the reasons I chose to go that way. In addition, I just couldn't get my head around blocking all those connections at the engine. Had to be there for a reason. Not only for filling but also general use. Plus I'm just not a big fan of the T-filler.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 12-06-2015 at 03:32 PM.
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post #122 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Update Including Rear Brakes

Friday I received my second 50 pound shipment from Wilwood. The rear brakes. This is a milestone on two fronts. First, I now have the complete set of long awaited Anniversary Edition Wilwood brakes. Second, it’s the last item on my shortage and/or missing list for my kit. I am now officially 100% complete.

Just a couple words about this subject. I am a huge fan of Factory Five products (obviously) and have the highest respect for the company and their products. They’ve allowed me to do something I’ve always wanted to do, and have a final product that I’m proud to own and a blast to show and drive. But I think they have room for improvement in the order fulfillment and delivery process. I fully realize the Anniversary Edition has some unique parts plus it is (I think) the first customer deliveries of the new 2015 Mustang IRS setup. So some shortages and delays maybe could be expected. But I was honestly pretty surprised when I saw the length of the backorder list when I picked up my kit, then added some items that were missing or just plain not accounted for. Everyone at FF was super friendly and helpful during every phone call and/or email. But it’s been six months since I ordered my kit, and four plus months since I picked it up. IMO that's really not acceptable. Especially the extended delays and missed promises for the Wilwood brakes. And they require 100% payment up front before taking delivery on anything. Hmm... But now it’s finally complete. I’m confident this will soon be a distant memory, and forgotten entirely once the build is completed. Owning and driving one of these will do that to you. But especially for first-time customers, this all has to be pretty disappointing. I spent my career doing multiple business continuous improvement projects. I would suggest this is something FF may want to focus on. Premium freight alone has to be significant. OK, enough about that. And I don’t want to turn my build thread into a rant on this subject. For me it’s done. I know there are others still waiting for a number of parts. Hopefully you too will soon get to this point.

After completing the front brakes a couple weeks ago, the rear brakes went together very quickly. Again, the parts and instructions from Wilwood were top notch. Everything fit perfectly, and exactly like the instructions. I was interested (and maybe a little nervous) about the bracketry for the 2015 Mustang IRS knuckles, but it was fine. Not much to do except post some pictures.

The rears also use a separate rotor and hat assembly that is bolted together and optionally safety wired. I chose to do the safety wires like on the fronts. Getting a little better at it I guess. At least a little faster. Took me about an hour for each rotor and hat. The rotors are the same diameter as the fronts, but slightly thinner. The hats are different too. Different offset and don't require the adapter rings for the hub.


Shims are used to center the 4-piston caliper to the rotor, and also the height of the caliper on the mounting bracket. All was easy to set up just like described in the instructions. The rears use a separate parking brake caliper. So it’s quite an assembly when completed.




I routed the e-brake cables per the instructions, and looks OK to the rear mounting holes. I’m going to look for alternatives to going under the 4 inch tube to the handle. Still can’t get my head around that, even though I know many do it and it’s fine. The instructions don’t specifically say where to mount the chassis end of the flex hoses, but I could kind of see them in some of the pictures and ended up (I think) in the same locations. This should provide easy enough access to the brake lines.


I had to drag out one of the 18 inch rear wheels to check the clearance and also just see what it looked like on there. Clearance all good. They are huge though.



Earlier this week, I pretty much finished up all the cooling lines, vacuum, and PCV hoses on the front of the Coyote. Here you can see the crossover from the inlet to outlet of the heater connections. Ford Racing recommends if not using a heater (I’m not) to connect the two with a 5/16 inch restrictor in the line. I received the Gates quick connects mentioned in my last post and made up the hose. Wasn’t sure what to do for a restrictor. I ended up with a 3/4 inch long steel bushing from the hardware store that I drilled out to 5/16 inch and put in the hose held by the clamp pictured. I also completed the hose from the water neck to the top of the expansion tank. This is the one I mentioned in my last update that wasn’t available anywhere from Ford. Easy enough to make up, except that the water neck connection was 5/16 ID, and the tank 3/8 ID. So searched around and found an adapter and it’s done. I also made up the PCV hose to the bottom of the Spectre intake on the DS, and decided to re-do the PS with the same hose and placing the JLT Performance oil separator a little more neatly.


Here you can see the connections I made to the Spectre intake. The top one is for the CMCV system, and the lower one (just visible, sorry) is the DS PCV line. I used connectors from JLT Performance mentioned in some other Coyote build threads. They are aluminum, and fit into a rubber grommet in the intake. I used some Permatex Ultra Black RTV when installing them. Seems to work perfectly. The factory connectors clip right on.


All those hoses and such look pretty messy. No way to make things very pretty. That I can figure out anyway. Looks a little better with the cover in place.


Just a few more details to wrap up on the engine. Mainly power steering and then a final decision about battery location. Then it will be back out so I can finish installing all the aluminum panels. Right now doesn’t appear that I will have any space issues in the front of the engine. But it’s sure busy in there. Onward!


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 12-20-2015 at 11:17 PM.
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post #123 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 05:44 PM
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Looking great!

Re battery location: Mine's in the front, right-hand side. As much as I like it there, I'll be forced to remove the Coyote coolant tank in order to remove the battery. In the MKII, I had the battery sunken in the trunk; it wasn't easy to get out, but I think on the next one I'll go back to the trunk, both for (easier) battery replacement and to give a bit more room up front for routing ABS, power steering hoses, headlight relays, etc. As you said, there is not a lot of spare room up there.

MK II SOLD 03/2013: 302EFI,E303,GT40intake,Twisted Wedge heads,MSD ignition&distributor,4X4, 24#, 3.55, 8 .8.

MK IV Coyote Complete Kit #8075 arrived 6/26/13: 8.8 solid, 3.55:1, TKO 500, PS/PB/ABS/AC, 245/60R15 x 295/50R15, modular dash. Graduated May 2016.

MK IV Build Thread:
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post #124 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Tach Connection

As updates go, this is pretty minor and maybe even a little trivial. But I’ve covered a number of aspects related to the 2015-2016 Coyote installation, and this is one that has to be dealt with. So I'll share what I did. The 2011-2014 Coyote crate motor control pack has a tach connection in the dash harness. Obviously very easy to attach to the tach gauge and away you go. I could not find any mention of a tach connection in the instructions for the 2015-2016 Coyote control pack, so included this in a list of questions when I talked to Ford Racing tech support. The response was (1) No, there isn’t a tach connection in the new control pack, (2) Look at all the other improvements you received (uh…ok…), (3) Recommended using something like an Autometer tach adapter.

I briefly looked at the Autometer piece ($80-90) and didn’t look too bad to wire up. But would have to break into several wires in the Coyote harness. Then I looked at the Speedhut directions for the tach. Good news! One wire to connect and nothing to buy. All that’s needed is a single connection to one of the coil on plug trigger wires, and then calibrate the tach to 1 pulse per 2 revolutions or 1/2 pulse per 1 revolution. In looking at the Coyote wiring to each coil on plug, there are only two wires. One is the same color for all (purple) and the other is a different color for each. According to the Speedhut instructions, this different colored wire is the trigger wire.

So today I decided to add the tach wire. It doesn’t matter which cylinder is selected. I chose #7. I will have other wires running to the gauges on that side (water temp, oil pressure) so this one can join the bundle. Instead of #8 (closest to the firewall) I chose #7 so the end of the connection will still be under the engine cover. After unplugging the connector to the coil on plug and pulling it free to expose the full length, I chose the location where I would break into it. About 3/4 of an inch from where it splits out of the harness to the coil and another branch to the injector. Using a brand new sharp X-Acto blade and a jeweler’s loupe, I carefully cut away about an inch of the tape wrap and then shaved about 3/8 of an inch of insulation from the yellow (in this case) trigger wire. Getting up close like that with a loupe was probably way overkill. But I was determined to not damage anything, nick any wires, whatever. Mission accomplished.

Then I made up the tach connection wire 3-4 inches long using a female spade connector crimped and lightly soldered on one end, and shrink sleeve over the wire and the connector. I wanted a crimped connection to the trigger wire, so cut the crimp end off the right size spade connector and used that to crimp the tach wire onto the exposed trigger wire. I was just able to get a wire crimper in there. Then I put a light touch of solder on the joint, wrapped it back up, and put on a cable tie so the tach wire isn’t pulling on the connection. Only a couple hours work, but now I have a tach connection and I’m satisfied it will work long term and I didn’t do anything to harm the engines wiring harness. BTW, there have been endless threads about whether to solder or not to solder. Let’s not make this one of them. I have a professional quality Weller solder station and have been doing this kind of thing for years. I just put the lightest touch on each connection and apply the heat and solder in such a way that there’s little/no wicking up the wires. I will typically do the same thing with the rest of the chassis wiring with the exception of Weatherpack style connectors. I have a dedicated crimper tool for those connectors and find it makes excellent folded crimps that don’t need additional solder. But I digress. Here are some pics.

Location where I broke into the harness:


Attachment to the yellow trigger wire. Note all eight cylinders have a purple wire on one side of the connector, the other side is different for each. #7 happens to be yellow:


All re-wrapped, in place, and tach wire available for connection to the gauge:


Tomorrow my power steering components are scheduled for delivery, so my next update will be about that. I looked at a number of power steering options, and will share what I chose and why along with the installation.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 12-16-2015 at 10:19 PM.
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post #125 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-17-2015, 12:26 AM
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Dash Supports...

Edward,
I absolutely love the dash work you do on your Factory Fives. It looks like you use some scrap aluminum angle to secure the dash to the top tube. Is that right? How are you attaching the angle to the dash and then how do you secure it to the top tube? On the bottom of or top of (hung) the tube?
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post #126 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-17-2015, 03:50 AM Thread Starter
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Edward, I absolutely love the dash work you do on your Factory Fives. It looks like you use some scrap aluminum angle to secure the dash to the top tube. Is that right? How are you attaching the angle to the dash and then how do you secure it to the top tube? On the bottom of or top of (hung) the tube?
Thanks. I prefer not to put screws through the front, first because of appearance and second because they can get covered up with the body. Strictly a personal preference. I've seen several builds do something similar as this, so can't say it's 100% original. Came up with it during my first build and have repeated for the others. It's not exactly scrap aluminum. It's 1 inch right angle aluminum from HD or Lowes (don't remember...) cut into 1-1/2 inch lengths and trimmed to 3/4 inch wide on the dash hoop side. I attach them to the dash with flat head screws before the covering is applied. Just make sure to fill the holes dead flat or they could picture through to the dash. I place them where they're accessible from the bottom. I rivet 10-32 nut plates to the bottom of the 3/4 inch tube, and hold in place with 10-32 cap screws. I've not had to take a dash back out (yet!) but it would be easy enough to do if necessary.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #127 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 01:11 PM
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Hi edwardb,

Is there a reason you rivet the 10-32 nut plates to the bottom of the 3/4" tube rather than use nut-serts? I'm going to guess it's too difficult to get your nut-sert tool into the correct position?


John

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #128 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Hi edwardb, Is there a reason you rivet the 10-32 nut plates to the bottom of the 3/4" tube rather than use nut-serts? I'm going to guess it's too difficult to get your nut-sert tool into the correct position? John
No, strictly a personal preference. I won't have the dash in place while installing the connections, so access isn't the issue. For this purpose I just prefer nut plates vs. nutserts. Probably a bit stronger and I won't have to worry about them coming loose, spinning, whatever in an area that would be hard to access once the car is finished.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #129 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 10:06 PM
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Cmcv

Edward, referencing post #122 I do not see a second CMCV line running up the passenger side. Do have a similar line?



On the JLT nipples that you installed on the intake elbow, you don't by chance have a part number for those?

Looks like you are making great progress, super clean layout on everything.

Thanks

Jeremiah
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post #130 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Edward, referencing post #122 I do not see a second CMCV line running up the passenger side. Do have a similar line? On the JLT nipples that you installed on the intake elbow, you don't by chance have a part number for those? Looks like you are making great progress, super clean layout on everything. Thanks Jeremiah
Thanks! It's coming together. Working on power steering right now, and (like always it seems) waiting for a few more parts to arrive. Don't expect to get much done this next week with family here for Christmas, out of town travel, etc.

For your questions -- There is only one CMCV line. It's on the driver's side and plugged into the intake as I showed in the picture you referenced. If you follow it through the intake, you'll see it's tee'd into the two CMCV vacuum motors. The part numbers for the JLT connectors are FTG-AUTO-FMG11 for the small fitting with grommet (fits the CMCV line) and FTG-PCVCAI for the large fitting with grommet that fits the PCV line. You have to call them. The parts aren't on their website. Nice people BTW. Oh and you'll find the CMCV line probably won't reach where you put the connection on the Spectre intake. I changed the piece of hose at the back of the engine where it plugs into the tee to a 1-2 inch longer piece. The other end plugs to the hard plastic line that goes through the intake.

The line you pictured is for the Mustang power brakes. It actually doesn't even plug into the intake. On the Mustang, it follows a rather circuitous route from the front of the engine back to the vacuum booster. If you follow that line through the intake and to the back of the engine, you'll find it plugged into a vacuum port in the intake manifold. Just pull it out and remove the line. I'm going to use that vacuum connection for the fuel pressure regulator. HTH


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #131 of 432 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 02:30 AM
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The line you pictured is for the Mustang power brakes. It actually doesn't even plug into the intake. On the Mustang, it follows a rather circuitous route from the front of the engine back to the vacuum booster. If you follow that line through the intake and to the back of the engine, you'll find it plugged into a vacuum port in the intake manifold. Just pull it out and remove the line. I'm going to use that vacuum connection for the fuel pressure regulator. HTH
Ah yes, that makes more sense. Appreciate the info, thanks Edward.
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post #132 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
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Power Steering

It’s been a little while since my last update. Family visits and travel during the holidays will do that. All good, and a little bit of a break was good. Also my usual waiting for parts. The first time, and then the do-overs. I’m sure that doesn’t happen to anyone else. Tonight I finished the mock-up of the power steering installation. It will all come back out when I take the engine out in the next week or two. But it should go back in for good very quickly when the time comes.

First a few words about power steering. For me it’s not a complicated discussion. My first build didn’t have power steering. It was my single regret from the build. My second did, and what a difference. Yes it’s about effort, mainly at slower speeds and parking. But it also allows significantly more caster in the front end alignment (from around +4 to +8) which gives the car better straight line tracking and high speed stability. It just makes the car such a pleasure to drive. For a Coyote build, it does get a little interesting though. Ford doesn’t install engine driven power steering in any of their cars using the Coyote. Like more and more modern cars, they are using electric power steering. So any engine driven setup for the Coyote will come from the aftermarket.

I won’t get real deep into the options, but there are several that I looked at. All go on the passenger side of the engine. Ford Racing sells an adjustable bracket that mounts near the bottom, and then uses a mod motor stock pump. This is the setup Factory Five has on the prototype Anniversary Roadster. It’s not cheap though. The bracket alone is around $250. Some guys have reported interference problems with the pulley and the frame. Another choice is a homemade bracket instead of the Ford Racing one, and then again a mod motor stock pump. Another forum member sent me the pattern, and it wouldn’t be hard to make. The other two choices place the pump more in the center of the passenger side. Eliminates the possible frame interference issue, but this is also the Ford location for the A/C compressor. So if A/C is in your build plan, these won’t work for you. One is sold by Forte. Looks good, but also isn’t cheap and again uses a stock mod motor pump. Another choice, and the one I chose, is a setup from KRC Power Steering. Again, certainly not cheap. I guess that’s a common theme for any of the choices when you add everything up. But for me there were several advantages that swayed me to KRC. First it’s an aftermarket pump that seems very high quality. It comes with AN fittings as standard. If you want to use AN hoses (I did) it completely eliminates fumbling around with the various adapters, O-rings, etc. With the provided pulleys it runs the proper RPM. One of the biggest advantages IMO is that has a provision for changeable flow valves. This allows you to tailor the amount of boost. They’re easy to change, although not as easy as twisting the knob on a Heidts valve. But for my driving I don’t need that. Several other forum Coyote builds have been with the KRC setup, which I have studied carefully. Thanks guys! All report excellent results.

Mid-December I placed my order for the KRC components directly with KRC. I received everything in just a couple of days. The KRC setup includes a new water pump pulley with a second pulley for the power steering drive. I mounted everything up, and unfortunately immediately noted a problem. The power steering pump and the drive pulley on the water pump were over 1/2 inch misaligned. I’ll spare you the long version of the story and just give this hint: Buy the complete setup under part number 66302050. Don’t do what I did and buy the cast iron pump and engine mounting kit separately. If you do, you will get the wrong power steering pump pulley. After a couple calls to KRC, we figured out the problem, they shipped the right pulley, I returned the wrong one, and all was OK. It was all a little bit harder than it had to be though, and I’ll leave it at that. Buy the complete setup and you’ll be OK. Another hint. KRC is sold through various other outlets. I see the setup listed at Summit, Jegs, Pegasus, etc. And it seems to be a bit cheaper. Still apparently shipped directly from KRC.

OK, enough about that. On to the installation. Here’s all the pieces you get. The blue colored piece right in the middle of the picture is the flow control valve. Based on forum recommendations for the cast iron pump, I chose the #4 valve, which is flow rated at 1.66 GPM. The valve is mounted in the top of the pump, and has the -6 AN threads for the high pressure pump output. To change the valve, disconnect the hose, remove the valve, install the new valve, replace the hose. It's that simple.


The pump bracket is held in place by three bolts, supplied with the bracket. They replace these front cover bolts on the Coyote, marked with blue tape for the picture:


This is the pump bracket on the front of the engine. There are spacers between the bracket and the engine. I hadn't installed them yet when this picture was taken:


And with the pump, new water pump pulley, and serpentine belt installed:


I looked at a number of options, and decided on the KRC 91515000 reservoir. It’s a nice piece with an internal baffle. Many of the reservoirs out there aren’t baffled. I settled on this location on the F panel. It’s a little tight to the engine and pump, but works out OK and keeps the overall plumbing layout relatively simple. The instructions from KRC say that the top of the fluid inside the reservoir must be at least two inches above the top of the pump. I easily meet that requirement. The bottom of the tank is just slightly below the top of the pump. My biggest concern was the relatively tight bend for the return hose from the bottom of the tank to the pump. I tried a number of -10 AN fittings and ended up with a straight and right angle. Regular -10 AN braided stainless was way too stiff to make this bend. So I tried the Aeroquip StartLite Aramid hose, which has the same liner as braided stainless but is much more flexible. I think it’s going to be OK.


For all the high pressure hose, I used braided stainless Teflon lined hose and fittings from Mark at Breeze Automotive. I bought exactly what I needed, and managed to ruin one of the hoses trying to re-use one of the little ferrules contained in these kind of connectors. I’m not even going to try to explain what I did, but it was a learning experience. Another quick order to Breeze and I was good to go. Here are the lines coming out of the PS rack:


Crossing behind the radiator and cooling fan:


I included a small cooler on the return line to the reservoir. I mounted it on the passenger side of the radiator cooling shroud. I don’t know if it’s really needed, but much easier to do now than later. I used the same exact Derale 13310 on my last build.


That’s about it for the power steering. While waiting for parts, I’ve continued to make progress drilling panels and getting them ready for powder coat. I have all the trunk pieces done, and starting on the cockpit. I’ve decided I have room for the front mounted battery, so will be ordering that kit from Breeze next. Just a few more details and a lot of note taking, and the engine will come back out so I can finalize all the sheet metal and power wiring. I've been working on my fuel and brake line material list and layout. Getting close I think. Yesterday I checked the FF stock e-brake handle and the provided Wilwood cables. Looks like it's going to work OK, but I still just can't get used to routing the cables under the 4 inch chassis tube. I've managed to avoid that on my other builds. May not be so lucky this time. One thing I noticed was that the separate Wilwood e-brake calipers require very little cable movement to actuate.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #133 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 09:57 AM
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EdwardB,

The KRC power system setup looks great. I really like the valve adjustment to change boost.

"Yesterday I checked the FF stock e-brake handle and the provided Wilwood cables. Looks like it's going to work OK, but I still just can't get used to routing the cables under the 4 inch chassis tube. I've managed to avoid that on my other builds. May not be so lucky this time."

I did not like the setup that puts the cables running under the 4 inch chassis tube and solved it by using a Lokar cable kit with a modified FFR e-brake mechanism.

Here is the drawing showing the difference between the supplied lever and the one I made.



In addition to the Lokar cables, I used the following Lokar parts ...



Here is the final assembly ... the bottom of the extended lever does not drop below the 4" round tube.



Carl

Last edited by carlewms; 01-03-2016 at 10:25 AM.
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post #134 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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I did not like the setup that puts the cables running under the 4 inch chassis tube and solved it by using a Lokar cable kit with a modified FFR e-brake mechanism. Carl
Thanks for positing those to my build thread. I actually found your pics and write-up while searching and looking at what others have done. I saved and printed the pictures and is one of the solutions I'm going to look at. It's a very nice and well executed solution. I'm just not sure how the extended lever, meaning the handle will need to move less, will work with the Wilwood e-brake calipers that require so little actual cable movement. But this is the first thing I'm going to try. I will mock it up somehow and see how it works. I think I could use the existing cables and hardware. They would just have to be shortened a little. We'll see. Thanks again.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #135 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 05:57 PM
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You will like the KRC power steering setup. The pump is 100% their own in house design. I am running it with my MKIV Coyote with the #4 flow valve, cast iron pump, inline cooler on the return line, and 8 degrees of caster. It is great at low speed with lots of feel at higher speeds. I used Lucas power steering fluid which has worked out great.

Only nuance I found was that with the belt provided by KRC I noticed that the input port was clocked up about 20 degrees when tensioned. I looked up and purchased the next smaller belt so the input port was horizontal when tensioned. Helped with my hose routing...

Enjoy!

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MKIV, IRS/TruTrack/3.55s, Coyote, TKO600, Wilwoods
Delivered: 1/6/2012
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First Go-Kart: 2/1/2014
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post #136 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bansheekev View Post
You will like the KRC power steering setup. The pump is 100% their own in house design. I am running it with my MKIV Coyote with the #4 flow valve, cast iron pump, inline cooler on the return line, and 8 degrees of caster. It is great at low speed with lots of feel at higher speeds. I used Lucas power steering fluid which has worked out great.

Only nuance I found was that with the belt provided by KRC I noticed that the input port was clocked up about 20 degrees when tensioned. I looked up and purchased the next smaller belt so the input port was horizontal when tensioned. Helped with my hose routing...

Enjoy!

Kevin
Thanks Kevin. Yea, your posts on the KRC setup were a major help and influenced my decision a lot. I also noted before that you changed the serpentine belt to a shorter one. I looked at that, but for mine the provided belt put the pump in the best position. I think the main difference between our installations is where the reservoir is mounted. Mine on the F panel, yours on the upper radiator mounting tube.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #137 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-05-2016, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Coyote Has Left the Building

As updates go, this is about as trivial as it gets. But still represents a pretty big milestone. Yesterday I disassembled much of what I’ve been working on the past weeks, took a lot of pictures, took a number of measurements, and made a few pages of notes. Then today we (my trusty wife and I) took the Coyote back out of the chassis. It’s not hard without most of the sheet metal and the trans, but still a tight fit. Had a bit of a setback when I unfolded my couple year old Harbor Freight 2-ton shop crane and it didn’t work. No pressure on the handle when pumping and no movement. I figured a major malfunction, but a quick Google search and found the solution. Needed the “valves flushed.” There was a specific sequence of opening and closing the valve and manually moving the lift arm, and it was good to go. Is this anything like exercising the muffler bearings? Now onward with finishing the sheet metal and getting powder coated and installed, putting in the power wiring, brake lines, fuel lines, and spraying some Lizard Skin. Then the Coyote with the TKO this time will go back in hopefully for the last time. I'm expecting in a few months.

4 degrees here this morning. My heated garage stayed warm enough, but I'm sure jealous of you guys out there in warm climates that are driving right now. Oh well, some pics:

Empty engine bay:


Coyote out. I’ll tuck in the corner of the garage for a bit.


Nice to have the lift back in play again. I couldn’t use it while I had the engine propped in place. Man I got spoiled fast with that thing.


Collection of stuff removed and now in the basement. I expect to go back in very quickly the next time:


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #138 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 02:29 AM
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Those are some cool (and expensive) parts.


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F5R #7446: MK4, 302, T5 midshift, 3.55 Posi IRS, 17" Halibrands
Delivered 4/4/11, First start 9/29/12, Licensed 4/24/13, PAINTED 4/17/14!! Wahoo!
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post #139 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-21-2016, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Panel Mockup Complete

It’s been a while since I’ve posted any updates. I’ve been working but pretty routine stuff and not too photogenic. But I’ve now completed most of the panel fitting, drilling and mockup. Thought I’d go ahead and post. This is all about to come back apart and I’ll be taking most of the raw pieces out for powder coat. Most of the panels will be the same silver/grey as the Anniversary chassis and a few white to match the ones already provided by Factory Five. I’ve changed and/or modified a few, so will get them done to match. I’ve got a few panels permanently mounted, but most are just cleco’d for now.

For the most part, I followed the recommended guidelines of two inch spacing for panel to panel, and three inch spacing for panel to chassis. When over wider chassis members, I did stagger them so they look a little closer. Having some of the panels already powder coated meant taking special care with them to not scratch, mark, etc. I just used a bunch of blue masking tape when laying out holes, drilling, etc. Reinforces the practice to drill and fit before powder coat whenever possible. Few other hints for first time builders: Take the time to lay out the holes straight, evenly spaced, etc. Lots of them are hidden when you’re done. But a lot of them aren’t, and it really makes a difference IMO in the quality look of the final product. Also take the time to think ahead of where you’re going to fit the tool to pull the rivet. Most are wide open. But check before you drill. Don’t put holes where you can’t get a tool on them. Also think about which side you’re going to pull the rivet from. I strongly prefer that any exposed rivet, even underside, in the wheel wells, etc. the head is showing not the crumpled business side. For sure this is the case in the obvious areas like the engine compartment. But in my overly obsessive opinion, I try to do the same everywhere. Just plain looks better and more professional. Finally, while the panels are perfectly cut and mostly fit really well, take your time to get them just right. A bend may need to be adjusted slightly, you may need to trim slightly to clear a weld bead, etc. If it doesn’t seem like it fits though, check the manual and check your work. I didn’t have to do any significant rework to any piece.

Here are some pics and details. Like I said before, mostly pretty routine stuff. This is the trunk compartment and the Russ Thompson dropped floor. I am leaving in the FF cross braces. Many guys move them below the dropped floor, which is fine. But I don’t weld plus the area will meet my needs with the braces there. Also note I permanently mounted the tank access panels. Probably many won’t agree with this. But I haven’t had to use one of those yet. Plus I played around a little getting the pump assembly out through the access hole. Not easy! It’s hard enough just getting it out of the tank itself. So I just mounted them and will carpet over. With a lift and a floor jack, I can drop the tank in minutes if necessary. For me that was the easier solution. Hopefully I don’t live to regret that decision, but it’s done. I'm also going to quickly make up some fill pieces for the upper side trunk walls. Not necessary, but makes the carpet work much easier and looks good even though not very visible.


Rear cockpit wall. Nothing too exciting here. I did find the corner tunnel pieces fit better this time than my last Mk4. Maybe something changed, or maybe I just did it right this time. Installing them with the overlaps exactly as in the build manual makes a big difference. Also, just a reminder, install all the trunk panels before installing the rear cockpit wall. Otherwise you’re not going to have too much fun with the rivets along the back edge of the trunk floor and sides.


Driver’s side footbox. Again, nothing too exciting. I’m going to do a removable trans tunnel cover. Lots of discussion about whether this is really necessary, and I’ve never done one before or found it necessary. But I’m planning to cover it with something other than carpet. So it just makes sense to go ahead and make it removable. As a result, I drilled for rivets along the top edge. They’ll be flush mounts so the cover can slide past them.


Passenger side footbox from the engine compartment. These are the Factory Five provided white panels. All fit well.


Driver’s side footbox from the engine compartment. Several things here. The inside wall, inside top and cover, and small fill piece are 2bking’s designed Coyote modded panels and supplied to me by another very generous forum member. I mentioned these before. I was able to get them to fit quite nicely. The firewall is also his layout, which I fabbed out of .090 inch aluminum. The front panel is also a piece I made. Factory Five powder coated the Mustang footbox panel instead of the Wilwood footbox panel, which a couple other Anniversary kit buyers also found. Upon further review, I found that if I made a couple minor tweaks to the front panel, the other modded panels fit a little better. That was all the excuse I needed. So I made a new one, and without the clutch or wire harness holes, and also shrunk down the steering column hole since I have the bearing mounted on the inside. Looks nice and clean. A lot of messing around for something that is basically unseen once the build is done. But I like it. I’ll need to punch a couple holes for the front harness and brake lines when the time comes and I determine the exact locations.


Driver’s side footbox from the outside. The outside side and top are set to go, but I won’t mount them permanently until everything else is done. Basically right before the body is finally installed.


One more tip. If you don’t own this tool from Harbor Freight, I would suggest getting one. Best $15 dollars you’ll spend. Works really great to adjust panels and bends as needed. Their item #98728.


Once I get all the parts to the coater, I’m going to start electrical, fuel lines, and brake lines. First up I think will be the instrument panel. So I’ll get that covered, the gauges installed, and start wiring. Then on from there.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 01-22-2016 at 12:24 PM.
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post #140 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-28-2016, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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E-Brake Installation / Modifications

All my sheet metal plus other parts are at the powder coater now. Should be a week or so then lots to do. In the meantime, plenty of other things to do including work on the e-brake. I’ve used the Mustang handle in the stock FF location for my previous builds. I’m OK with the location, and the Mustang handles worked OK. But this kit included the newer FF in-house design e-brake handle. After looking it over and assembling it, I’m fine with the design except a couple things: I’m not a fan of the plastic bearings on the main handle pivot. Just doesn’t strike me as terribly stable or long-lasting. Easy fix though. The same bronze bushings used for the hood, doors, trunk, etc. are the right size just a little too thick. I had some spares around, so it was easy to grind down a couple so they could seat in the handle pivot. Much better. My other concern was the little pawl piece just floats between the two main halves. A couple of small washers on each side keeps it aligned much better. I also chose to use a 10-32 bolt to hold it instead of the supplied drive pin. Just personal preference. With these changes I moved to the installation.

I mentioned in a previous update that I wasn’t real excited about routing the e-brake cables under the 4-inch chassis tube. I know hundreds (thousands?) have been built this way, but I’ve managed to avoid it on my other builds and really preferred to again. First is the matter of the cables wrapping under the tubes, which to me looks pretty cheesy plus won’t pass technical inspection in some states. Not a problem for Michigan, but still… The other perhaps more serious concern for me is the cables take a pretty sharp angle out of the rear cable mounts to make the trip around the tube. Probably they would be fine, but I was interested in alternatives.

Fellow forum member carlewms was nice enough to post his solution earlier in this build thread. I had seen that before in his build thread, and it was first on my list to try. Unfortunately, it won’t work on this setup. The separate Wilwood e-brake calipers used on the Anniversary Roadsters requires very little cable movement. Actually just going from slack to tight actuates the e-brake enough to lock the disks down hard. With the stock pull location the movement required where the cables connect is just under .75 inches, or 5 clicks on the handle. I mocked up the modified extended location, allowing the cables to be routed above the 4 inch chassis tube, and it was 2 maybe 3 clicks at the most to actuate the brakes. Just not what I wanted.

After staring at the chassis and e-brake for a while (I do that…) I realized the Lokar cable clevis carlewms used could be the beginnings of a solution for the routing plus provide the needed adjustability. If I wanted to use the same cables, the fixed ends would be too long if the routing were changed. Fortunately they’re sold separately. Lokar S-8078. My next brainstorm was to use a pulley right above the 4 inch tube to pull the cables down as far as possible, providing the best routing to the handle as well as up to the rear cable mounts. Digging through McMaster's website I found a suitable candidate, their #3434T24. Both parts arrived today, and I think it’s going to work out well.

My first idea was to add the Lokar cable clevis behind the FF provided rod ends where the cables attach to the e-brake handle. But then I realized with a little modification, the Lokar cable clevis could be used by itself. Simple and neat. This is the stock Lokar part. I think it’s used with most/all of their e-brake handle assemblies:


After some careful layout, trimmed it down and drilled some new holes. Now looks like this:


With the handle installed using the modified Lokar cable clevis, located the pulley and routed the cables. With the rear mounting bolt pointed up as shown, the cable clevis slides over it just fine. Also note I put the front bracket under the chassis mount. Gave a little more clearance at the back.


Viewed from the other side (PS cockpit) showing the new pretty direct routing. I used a carriage bolt to hold the pulley. The head of the bolt will get covered with the cockpit sheet metal. But the bolt will be captured and kept from turning with the square hole it's in.


This is with the e-brake actuated, and the cables pulled tight. The disk rotors are locked solid. I think it's a go. The pulley I found is actually a rope pulley for 1/4 inch rope. The two cables don’t fit into it perfectly, but it was the best I could find and seems to work OK. I purposely mounted the pulley close enough to the chassis tube so the cables are captured. It’s a steel pulley with ball bearings, rated at 290 lbs work load. I think it’s more than up to the task, and was only $7. Gotta love McMaster.


I’m going to take everything back out now that I’m satisfied with how it’s working and paint the raw steel parts. It will go back in after the sheet metal is installed. Last week I also played around and made an aluminum dust cover to go around the e-brake opening in the transmission tunnel. It’s nothing fancy and certainly not an air or water tight seal. But generally covers the opening which just seems a lot more open than before without the much bigger Mustang piece hanging there. It’s in my batch of parts at the powder coater, so can’t show it now.

I’ve got supplies on the way to start putting covering on the dash. Should be here next week. In the meantime, I’ve starting working on the wiring. Spent some hours yesterday changing one of the Coyote harnesses. Specifically moving the starter and cooling fan wires.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #141 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-28-2016, 03:27 PM
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Great post. If I were to do this would you recommend getting a wider pulley to accommodate both cables better?

Chris

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post #142 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-28-2016, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Great post. If I were to do this would you recommend getting a wider pulley to accommodate both cables better?
Thanks! Up to you. If you found one a bit wider that would be OK I guess. But this one works perfectly fine. I'd use it again. Keep in mind in this application with these particular calipers, the cables are barely moving. They are pretty much just going from slack to tight. This pulley serves as a guide, but not much more. I even thought about using a screw eye, but this is a better solution IMO.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #143 of 432 (permalink) Old 01-28-2016, 04:23 PM
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Thanks for the info. I've got the Wilwoods from Forte with the integrated ebrake in the drum so might need a little more pull than your FFR Wilwoods. I do like your solution for the cable-routing so I'll probably do some variation that works with my particular setup. Thanks again!

Chris

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post #144 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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Instrument Panel Cover and Assembly

While waiting for powder coating to be finished on all my sheet metal and related, decided to tackle the instrument panel. As described in previous updates, I did a slightly modified competition layout using a blank FF panel and fabricated a glove box. I decided early on to give leather covering a try. I picked up a full hide on eBay. It’s way more than I needed, but found a source that was reasonable and figured having extra just in case wasn’t a bad thing. I’m also planning to do the transmission tunnel cover, but that will be sometime later. For my last build, I wanted to avoid the puffy look, so did two layers of vinyl and no padding. It turned out nice, but had a bit less “give” than I expected. So this time around, I decided to give thin padding a try. I bought some 1/8" thick Volara Sculpting Foam from YourAutoTrim.com. I did some testing, and was satisfied. Nice cushion but not puffy.

This is the instrument panel with the foam applied. I used DAP Weldwood Landau Top & Trim HHR (High Heat Resistant) Contact Cement also from YourAutoTrim.com. This is the stuff I’ve used before and it’s outstanding. It’s a professional product that usually is sprayed. But I’ve found it works OK if brushed or rolled. Probably not the most efficient application method, but the smallest you can buy is one gallon, so no problem with running out. If you take something to a professional upholstery or auto trim shop, guarantee this is the stuff they’ll be using.



Some hours later (!), had the leather applied and everything installed. Having done a couple panels in vinyl and now leather, it’s a bit different. It goes from flat to a little wavy when the contact cement is applied. Maybe wouldn’t be as pronounced if the cement were sprayed. But with care it goes down and rolls out nice and flat. It also eats blades. I went through a stack of X-Acto blades. I pulled the leather through to the back with pie cuts on all but a couple openings where there isn't room and there's a sufficient flange or finish washer. The holes were cut taking this into account. These pictures don’t really do the leather justice. The natural grain is pretty cool. I still have work to do on the glovebox. I’m planning to line the interior with leather (have plenty) and then need to cover and hang the door. The grab handle is just bolted through the dash at this point. Once the dash is installed in the chassis, I’ll add braces down to the 2x2 dash tube as I’ve done before.







Just a little more work to do back here.



Quick follow-up to a previous update. I posted my e-brake cable routing going through pulleys instead of under the 4 inch chassis tube. Jeff Kleiner made an excellent observation that perhaps a second pulley with a cable through each might work well. After I got past the “Why didn’t I think of that…” moment, decided to give it a try. It worked OK before, but even better now. I checked as best I could with the transmission frame and mount in place, pictures I have of my other TKO installed, and all indications are I should have enough room. I’ve got the e-brake handle painted and the cable routing really finalized now. It will need to come out one more time to install the aluminum panel and insulation.



mijeertbarc thanked this.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #145 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 06:47 PM
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Sweet. I like that new cable routing a lot. Thanks!! Dash looks great. I also like the leather but think I'm going to try my hand at using Alcantara. Questions...

Which seat heaters did you go with?
Any chance you have the dash layout drawing handy?
Where did you get that grab handle?

Chris

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post #146 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Sweet. I like that new cable routing a lot. Thanks!! Dash looks great. I also like the leather but think I'm going to try my hand at using Alcantara. Questions...

Which seat heaters did you go with?
Any chance you have the dash layout drawing handy?
Where did you get that grab handle?
Thanks! Alcantara huh? If that's what I think it is, kind of a suede look. I don't know if it was Alcantara or actual suede, but the all girls build FF did on Detroit Muscle a year or two ago had that kind of a dash. I saw it in person at the London Show. It's an interesting look.

Seat heaters are these: Automotive Seat Heaters. Some guys use the waterproof version. I just used the regular ones. I've used them several times. Quality product that works great.

Grab handle is a polished aluminum 275-24P from Grab Handles Smooth Billet Aluminum- 10". I've also used this handle several times. Helps and reminds people to get in/out without leaning on the door or grabbing the windshield. Really helpful for my wife getting and out. She considers it mandatory. Also an interesting barometer when you're driving if people suddenly grab hold of it. I have to admit it hasn't happened too often when I'm driving. Guess I need to up my game.

Sorry, I don't have a drawing of the dash layout. I did post the dimensions of the layout in my last build, which this is based on. Should get you in the ballpark: EdwardB’s Mk4 #8674 20th Anniversary Build

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #147 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:35 PM
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Yeah, Alcantara (Ultrasuede) is a synthetic suede that has been widely used in tons of performance cars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Porsche, etc.) for years, usually as a seating fabric to keep you planted during hard cornering. They've recently been using it for dash fabrics to reduce glare (same idea as flocking). My previous Subaru STI seats had it, and my current Chrysler 300C SRT8 even has it. Super soft and luxurious to the touch. Leather looks and feels sweet but I'm in Florida so having leather in a roadster is a recipe for 2nd degree burns. I'm going to try and use Alcantara throughout the interior of my build (seats, dash, doors, shifter, & center console) to cut down on glare and keep things cool. I even picked up a Sparco steering wheel that is wrapped in suede, and had Russ Thompson drill special holes for it in the self-cancelling turn signal setup I got.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the help!!

Chris

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Arrived 12/18/2011, Coyote 5.0, T56, IRS, Torsen Diff, PS, Hydraboost PB + ABS, Wilwoods, & many extras
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post #148 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-06-2016, 02:34 PM
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Hey Edwardb, I had a similar work bench in the basement of our Ontario home when a built a cedar strip kayak. What else do you with a ping pong table after the kids get bored with it.
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post #149 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-06-2016, 03:32 PM
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Leather questions

I did a quick search on ebay looking at various leathers. Can you be specific with regards to what you used on the dash? For example, Lambskin 2-3 Oz Supple Leather Hide Veg Tanned Semi Aniline Skin Black, was listed. What thickness did you use and size? Most say 7 sq feet, is that enough?

Thanks, appreciate the time you take to document your build. You car is going to be amazing!

All the best-
Mick

MKIII, Arrival date: June 25, 2005 Irs, Pindrive, Vintage 17 inch, Dual chrome roll bars. P/S, P/B. 302, E-cam, Powerjection and ISIS wiring.
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post #150 of 432 (permalink) Old 02-06-2016, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howardsoflang View Post
Hey Edwardb, I had a similar work bench in the basement of our Ontario home when a built a cedar strip kayak. What else do you with a ping pong table after the kids get bored with it.
That ping pong table saw some epic father-son battles back in the day. But they're gone now -- all grown up -- so it found a second life. My "real" workbench is not seen in the pictures. A pair of Craftsman benches with a single long top, bench vise, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick40 View Post
I did a quick search on ebay looking at various leathers. Can you be specific with regards to what you used on the dash? For example, Lambskin 2-3 Oz Supple Leather Hide Veg Tanned Semi Aniline Skin Black, was listed. What thickness did you use and size? Most say 7 sq feet, is that enough?

Thanks, appreciate the time you take to document your build. You car is going to be amazing!

All the best-
Mick
Thanks! I too spent a lot of time looking through various leather options. Mostly on eBay since there are so many offerings. I don't claim to be an expert. This is the first time I've ever bought or tried anything with leather. I ended up with with a full cow hide. It was listed as JET BLACK, 42 to 45 Sq. Ft., Weight: 2.50 - 3.00 oz. per square foot, and specifically recommended by the eBay seller (textile_specialist) for auto or furniture upholstery. It was $160 with free shipping. So even though much more than I needed, I looked at a lot of other options that were less material for similar or more money. So gave it a try. Note I was planning for the dash and glovebox (now done) plus the trans cover. I figured the extra would give me a chance for do-overs, which fortunately wasn't necessary so far. Plus maybe do the door cards, although right now I'm not planning to. In hindsight, I'm glad I got the full hide. Unlike vinyl, natural leather has a lot of variations. Across the full hide, some variations in the texture, some natural patterns, etc. They warn you a hide could have damage (e.g. barb wire), brands, holes, etc., although mine didn't. I did note some slight variations in thickness between the back and down near the legs. Interesting. Wasn't a problem though. Maybe a higher quality product (e.g. more expensive...) would reduce that and be more selective. But I found the extra material allowed me to pick out exactly what I wanted, and avoid some areas that I preferred not to use. I guess I would be a little careful only buying the exact amount required unless they can assure you it's consistent across the whole piece. One other comment. The leather came rolled and then folded into a flat rate shipping box. It had a lot of creases in it when I first rolled it out, and I was concerned that it was damaged or stretched. I sent a message to the seller, and he suggested draping or hanging it across a clothes pole. After some days it was fine. Lots of info and words here, but thought I would share my experience. Good luck.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 02-06-2016 at 05:07 PM.
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