EdwardB’s Mk4 #8674 20th Anniversary Build - Page 4 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #91 of 423 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 05:22 PM
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You mentioned computer placement potentially further forward more over the headers... This is exactly what I did. It it over the headers in an enclosure which is open facing the inner fender behind the splash panel. I put some gold heat reflective material I got from Pegasus Racing to avoid heat soak. I have run the car in 100 degree weather in a parade and never had the cooling fins of the computer go above 90 degrees.

I also made aluminum heat shield panels with the same gold stuff on them for the footboxes that standoff 1/4" to give an air gap. No heat issues in the footboxes either.

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I put louvers in the hood to vent hot air mainly when stopped to avoid heat soak too.

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Just some Coyote thoughts...

Kevin


MKIV, IRS/TruTrack/3.55s, Coyote, TKO600, Wilwoods
Delivered: 1/6/2012
First Start: 1/19/2014
First Go-Kart: 2/1/2014
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post #92 of 423 (permalink) Old 10-30-2015, 05:35 PM
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If you decide to do the footbox mod on the PS, put the Stainless headers on first to determine the size. I did the standard mod that everyone does and had a header conflict. I took it out and reverted back to the standard foot box. It probably would work with the header/j-pipe set up.


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First Start - 7/25/15
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post #93 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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2015 Coyote Control Pack Installation

Since the last update, I’ve mainly been focused on installing the 2015 Coyote control pack. There is a lot of information on the forums, and from FF, on how to install the previous version of the Coyote control pack in the Roadster. But none that I’m aware of for the new 2015-2016 version. As I mentioned before, there are some pretty significant differences.

First thing I went after was mounting the PCM. The large cable off the front PS corner of the engine goes to the PCM, and the length and position of that cable just about dictates only one location as I showed previously. I played around with several patterns (cereal boxes to the rescue again) and ended up with this version and cut/bent some aluminum. It will rivet to the underside of the top 3/4 inch tube and the outside of the lower 3/4 inch tube. I used some 1/2 inch shock mounts to locate the PCM on the outside of the new bracket. The shock mounts don’t have much give for the light weight of the PCM. But between the mounts and the .040 aluminum, it has just a little give but still very solid. It’s as far away from the header as I could place it, with the bracket shielding facing the header and an airspace between. The heat sinks for the PCM are facing the other way and completely open. This area should have decent airflow with the side vent right behind it. So I’m satisfied the PCM shouldn't see any extreme temps and is reasonably protected. I'll have the new piece powder coated when I do everything else, and then rivet it permanently.

I started routing some of the cables. It’s still a work in process, so no style points. Lots of straightening and clean-up to do yet. It’s not going to be very pretty no matter what, but mostly will be hidden inside the fender. The control pack harness goes into the other large connector in the PCM, with a large branch going from there to the power distribution box. That I’m going to mount on the firewall, low and just about on center. More about that later. The branches for the MAF sensor and alternator control wires go up and around the engine under the cover, so good there. I’ll need to add extensions to the fan and starter trigger wire to reach their intended destinations. The rest of the connections are on the other side of the firewall. Once you get your head around it, the connections to the Coyote are pretty simple. Here are a couple pics of where I’m at with this part.



I posted a picture before of the power distribution module. This is part of some of the differences between this control pack and the previous one. Here it is with the covers off. You can see two power connections. The large lug on the front and then a power cable that exits the harness just a few inches away from the box. Today I checked every fuse and relay in the box. Most are connected to the large lug in the front, and only a couple to the separate power cable.


The control pack includes a massive 15 foot long power cable. Nothing like this is included in the previous control pack versions. The instructions describe connecting the power cable directly to the battery, and also includes a 250 amp fuse to be placed at the battery end. Also included are lugs and shrink sleeve to shorten the cable if necessary.


Then it’s routed to the power distribution box with a lug for the large connection on the front and a connector for the separate cable.


Checking continuity in the cable, the +12V connections are tied together. Now I’m not an electrical engineer (no comments please…) and I guess I understand why Ford engineers chose to provide a home run cable from the battery to the power for the control pack. This is a universal kit and will be installed in many different cars with many configurations. Getting the power directly from the battery makes it consistent for all. As for the other end, with the lug and plug, both have the same +12V power, so I guess this is related to the power distribution box adapted to this setup.

But I’m thinking now not to install it with the provided battery power cable. Like my previous build, I’m planning a master power disconnect centered under the dash with the lugs extending into the engine compartment. Whether I do a front or rear battery (still considering…) the first stop for uninterrupted battery power will be inches away from the power distribution box at the center of the firewall. Assuming I use the right size cable, I see no reason to run a duplicate battery cable.

Just to confirm how the provided power cable is wired, and to prove this plan, I stripped the insulation off each end of the provided cable. The continuity checker didn’t lie. This is the power distribution box end. Large 4 gauge +12V wire to the lug, and smaller gauge power and ground.


This is the battery end, showing the two +12V wires tied together at the battery lug and the separate ground wire.


So the power setup I’m considering is +12V battery power to the master disconnect. Off the same lug, I’ll tap to the two control pack power distribution +12V connections through the provided 250 amp fuse. So they’ll have always on fused power. Just like the provided cable. On the switched side of the master disconnect, I’ll go to the RF fuse box. So technically, not everything will be switched off with the master disconnect. But the PCM has to have always on power to store settings and codes, and there’s no provision to do this other than to leave it connected through the main power leads. Based on how the RF harness is connected to the control pack using the ignition sense wires, the main disconnect will still shut down the car when switched off. I would ground the battery to the chassis, per normal. The control pack has several ground connections, also I would take to chassis. Done properly, I don’t see why I need the dedicated ground wire in the provided power cable.

If anyone has any feedback about any of this, fire away.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 11-01-2015 at 01:43 AM.
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post #94 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 01:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ckrueger View Post
If you decide to do the footbox mod on the PS, put the Stainless headers on first to determine the size. I did the standard mod that everyone does and had a header conflict. I took it out and reverted back to the standard foot box. It probably would work with the header/j-pipe set up.
Thanks for the comments, but no footbox mod on the PS. I'm using the stock setup. I've got 2bking's patterns for the PS mod, but the space gained is pretty modest. Plus I have the stock panels already on hand and powder coated the anniversary white. I'm using them.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #95 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
So the power setup I’m considering is +12V battery power to the master disconnect. Off the same lug, I’ll tap to the two control pack power distribution +12V connections through the provided 250 amp fuse. So they’ll have always on fused power. Just like the provided cable. On the switched side of the master disconnect, I’ll go to the RF fuse box. So technically, not everything will be switched off with the master disconnect. But the PCM has to have always on power to store settings and codes, and there’s no provision to do this other than to leave it connected through the main power leads. Based on how the RF harness is connected to the control pack using the ignition sense wires, the main disconnect will still shut down the car when switched off. I would ground the battery to the chassis, per normal. The control pack has several ground connections, also I would take to chassis. Done properly, I don’t see why I need the dedicated ground wire in the provided power cable.
I think your logic is spot on. The older controls pack had some redundant wiring which I dieted out and simplified.

Your PCM mount is very clean and well placed.

King
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Roadster 8127, Ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13

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post #96 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 11:47 AM
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Do both 12V+ feeds to the ECU need constant power? I am asking because I don't know but on the Lexus ECUs I used to work on there were several 12V+ to the ecu but only one had constant power.

FFR 5353K, 408W, TKO 500, 2015 IRS w/ 315 gear, Breeze QA1 DA coilovers front and rear, APE hardtop, Forte front swaybar
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post #97 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Do both 12V+ feeds to the ECU need constant power? I am asking because I don't know but on the Lexus ECUs I used to work on there were several 12V+ to the ecu but only one had constant power.
I don't know and probably not too easy to find out. Could be the PCM only needs power on one of the 12V feeds to keep alive. But as delivered, the battery cable provides always on power to both inputs, and that's what I'm planning to duplicate. But that raises a good point. It would easy enough to measure the current draw from the battery once everything is wired up to confirm that it's within reason, e.g. xx (whatever) milliamps.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #98 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Once you get your head around it, the connections to the Coyote are pretty simple.
And brain surgery's pretty easy once you know how.

I'm so glad you're writing this build up in such detail. It confirms my decision to go with the 302, 'cuz there's NO WAY I'd ever figure any of this stuff out. Your build is truly inspirational.

Cheers,


John

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Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #99 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
I think your logic is spot on. The older controls pack had some redundant wiring which I dieted out and simplified. Your PCM mount is very clean and well placed.
Thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
And brain surgery's pretty easy once you know how.

I'm so glad you're writing this build up in such detail. It confirms my decision to go with the 302, 'cuz there's NO WAY I'd ever figure any of this stuff out. Your build is truly inspirational.

Cheers, John
Thanks for my Sunday morning laugh out loud. Funny comment there.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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post #100 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 03:27 PM
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I don't know and probably not too easy to find out. Could be the PCM only needs power on one of the 12V feeds to keep alive. But as delivered, the battery cable provides always on power to both inputs, and that's what I'm planning to duplicate. But that raises a good point. It would easy enough to measure the current draw from the battery once everything is wired up to confirm that it's within reason, e.g. xx (whatever) milliamps.
I have the 2012 (older version) Coyote and controls. My power is routed from the battery through a battery cut off switch then forward to the rest of the car. . The battery cut off switch kills ALL power to the car. The PCM in my car does not need constant power. I have had no issues with losing any settings, tune or codes in 25,000 kilometers. Every time I turn off the car I also turn off the battery cut off. Winterizing is easy. Turn off the battery cut off...Pull the cover over...Set the temperature in the garage to 50F and put her to sleep.

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post #101 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-07-2015, 02:18 AM
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Power Distribution Box

Like your location for the PCM and thank you for laying the ground work. There definitely isn't much lead to mount it anywhere else.

Where did you end up mounting the power distribution box? You mentioned in a previous post that all the other connections are inside the firewall. I was trying to find a good spot forward of the firewall to keep things cleaner inside since I have a heater but no luck so far.
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post #102 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-07-2015, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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Like your location for the PCM and thank you for laying the ground work. There definitely isn't much lead to mount it anywhere else.

Where did you end up mounting the power distribution box? You mentioned in a previous post that all the other connections are inside the firewall. I was trying to find a good spot forward of the firewall to keep things cleaner inside since I have a heater but no luck so far.
Funny you asked. I just finalized the power distribution box location today. I agree, no way it was going inside the firewall. While it might be possible to physically fit it there, it wouldn't be easily accessible. Plus with how I'm going to do the power wiring, described previously, it works better outside the firewall. Here's a pic of the location I'm going to use. The cable from the PCM will be mounted along the bottom of the firewall over to this point. The tape X is the general area I'm going to punch through the firewall for the grommet and cable leg seen in the pic. I'll do the final routing, mounting, and get the exact location of the hole when the engine is back out. The power from the battery will be available on the master disconnect right below this general area. So it should all hook up pretty neatly. Best I can tell, the wires on the other side of the firewall should be about the right length and fit OK. We'll see.

Interesting to see another 2015-2016 Coyote installation underway. Sharing and pictures are good! Would love to see what you're doing.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 11-07-2015 at 11:53 AM.
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post #103 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
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This Week’s Update

A little less time for building since my last update, but still some progress to share. I think I’m getting close on figuring out where to put the 2015 Coyote wiring. After a lot of experimentation, finalized the firewall location for the power distribution box. I did decide to go ahead and make up a .090 thick firewall. Really no big reason since I won’t be hanging anything heavy on it. Just prefer it. Since I have the 2bking modified DS footbox, the firewall has a smaller cutout than the stock one. But it was easy to make, and proceeded to drill and cleco the bottom row of rivets. With the firewall location finalized, I tapped some 1/4 x 20 threads into the firewall and 2 inch dash tube for the power distribution box mounting. Then cut the 2 inch hole for the control pack wiring to go into the dash area. I’m satisfied with how this turned out. Visible wiring will be pretty minimal.

This is the finalized location for the power distribution box. Pretty accessible from the driver’s side, and low enough that even with the body overhang should be able to get to it OK. Also shows where the cable goes through the firewall. All my power wiring will be directly below this area at the master disconnect, so an easy hook-up to the box.


The cable runs along the bottom of the firewall. I’ll straighten and tie this down once all the sheet metal is in. Note also the very general location of the fuel regulator. It will be several inches over toward the center from what's pictured here. I made a new mounting bracket for the regulator that's straight vs. the right angle one that came with it. That will allow me to mount it on the bottom of the 2 inch tube and stand away enough to clear the control cable behind. Should work OK.


This is a pretty crummy picture, but shows the control pack wiring on the other side of the firewall. The lengths are all going to work out pretty well. That’s the DBW connector sticking up above the dash. The length is about perfect to go down to the pedal. The clutch up and down switch cable lengths are also about right. The ODB2 cable is way too long, but easy enough to shorten.


Here’s how I ended up anchoring the cable out of the PCM to the power distribution box. Two padded clamps into the underside of the 3/4 inch hood tube. The clips above are for the wire bundle from the dash to the front for the running lights in the oil cooler opening. I have similar clips on the other side for the standard RF front harness.


Did a couple other things. Mounted the CNC brake and clutch reservoirs. Made up another bracket to mount it from the underside of the tube. It’s tight in this area, but the location clears everything. May look a little high to some, but I carefully measured (several times) the available space in the finished Mk4, and the caps clear the hood by about 1/4 inch. Tight, but should be OK.


I’ve also been working on getting the radiator hooked up. Lots of great forum info on this subject for the Coyote. Like some others, I’m going to plumb it the same way Ford does in the Mustang. FF shows using a T-filler in the upper hose and a simple overflow tank. Instead I’m using an expansion tank with the filler on the tank, and then the stock hookups to the engine. I’ve got the hoses on order, and will list them once I confirm it all works and fits. The 2015 layout is slightly different and uses different parts than the previous version. In the meantime, I did receive the Moroso 63806 2015 Mustang expansion tank. Looks like it’s going to fit. I’ll need to make some brackets, but will wait until I have the hoses on hand and make everything fit together. Here I’m holding it in roughly the position I’m expecting.


Finally, and this is a small thing, I worked on the lower radiator hose. Again the forums were a huge help showing using two pieces of a Dayco 71713 hose, a piece of mandrel bent SS tubing, and a Breeze 70612 SS hose mount. Should have the SS tubing tomorrow and I can finish this up. But just wanted to say the Dayco hose appears to be perfect. I was able to clear the front tow hook (always a challenge) and now the new challenge of the sway bar that cuts through the same area. After a little trimming and the proper orientation, looks promising. The open end will get pulled down into place when the rest of the parts are installed.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 11-11-2015 at 02:13 AM.
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post #104 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 03:59 AM
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Garage
I really admire your pace while still keeping your eye on the details. Thanks for your contributions.

Chris

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Arrived 12/18/2011, Coyote 5.0, T56, IRS, Torsen Diff, PS, Hydraboost PB + ABS, Wilwoods, & many extras
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post #105 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Latest Update

I’ve been keeping with the build pretty steadily, but have waited until some progress to post. First a bit of old business. I have now closed the two open issues I had with Ford Racing regarding my 2015 Coyote crate engine. First was the O2 sensors they provided in the original controls pack did not mate to the connectors on the engine harness. Something about 4-pin not compatible with 5-pin and completely different shapes. I received a new pair of O2 sensors and they fit the engine harness. Details: The controls pack came with a pair of FL3Z-9G444-A sensors, and the installation manual on Ford Racing’s site still lists this part number. The new parts I received are FR3Z-9F472-E (LH) and FR3Z-9F472-C O2 (RH). I assume these will be a permanent change for future purchases, but I don’t know for sure. I will need one maybe two extensions, but that’s TBD until I get all the sheet metal installed and determine the final routing. The second issue was regarding the speed dial. This was an add to the 2011-2014 setup to solve a stalling issue. Ford Racing confirmed via Ford engineering that the speed dial is NOT required for the 2015 version. Apparently changes have been made so it’s unnecessary. I hope they’re right. I won’t be installing it. For now anyway.

The second piece of slightly unfinished business is the lower radiator hose. Based on forum postings, I picked up a Dayco 71713 hose, a Jegs 679-MB1040 Mandrel SS 90° Bend, and a Breeze Automotive #70162 mounting bracket. The Dayco hose is split, with one end on the radiator and the other end on the engine. I showed the lower radiator connection in an earlier update. Now I have all the parts and have completed the layout. Hard to get good pics, but here’s what it looks like. I’m very happy with it. It clears the front towhook and also the sway bar. Mainly because of the sway bar, the routing is slightly different than other postings. But it still works. Those that look at these pictures in detail (and I know some of you do!) you’ll see that my T-clamps are bottomed out. I used some that I had on hand, and they were a bit too big. I have the next size down on the way, and will install those during final assembly when the engine goes back in.



So while waiting for my Wilwood brakes, which I would prefer to have installed before starting brake and then fuel lines, and the balance of my radiator hoses which apparently are taking some special orders through Ford, I’ve been working on the instrument panel. Basically have it ready to cover. As posted earlier, I chose not to use the kit provided ready-to-use instrument panel. Mainly because it was a street layout and I prefer competition. But also I wanted to use some of my own customizations. I don’t know exactly how many hours later, but I’m still OK with that decision. But it was quite a bit of work. I started with a normal FF blank dash. I want to give leather covering a try, and I have a hide now hanging here in my basement (that’s going to be interesting…) and I want a glovebox. So I decided to make my own. It’s based on the Alex’s Custom Roadster Interior version, like I have on the other Mk4. But I revised the shape just slightly with a bit more arch along the top. For the interior, I made a mock-up out of cardboard to confirm the size and shape. Then made some patterns out of scrap wood. Bent a piece of ductwork sheet metal from HD around the form. Made a back and front ring out of aluminum, and bent it all into shape. The sheet metal ring has a folded seam along the top. The rest is held together with good old JB Weld, although once it’s bolted into place the front ring holds the box in place and the back is not going anywhere. I’ll line the interior, which shouldn’t be hard since it’s got square corners. Probably will use some of the leather (I have plenty!) but will see how that goes.



I was going to use some hinges from McMaster (LH side in the picture below) that were recommended in another forum post. I tried, but the geometry just isn’t right for me. I have to have a grab handle on my dash below the door for my wife, and the McMaster hinges dropped the door well down below the opening. Just wouldn’t have worked. After studying the hinges that Alex uses, I found the exact parts at Lowes (RH side in the picture below). So I’ll use those. The geometry works perfectly. They take a little more space inside than I would like, but so be it. I’m using a VW latch (also pictured) I bought on eBay that should be pretty slick. It latches closed and opens with a pushbutton and has a little pull tab. It can also be locked.


Some, including me, like the dash to be a little more solid than the .040 aluminum used. Once it’s installed and properly braced along the bottom, the stock version is totally fine. But still some of us tinker. Some make the dash out of thicker material. I don’t have any way to make the lengthwise bend, and I’m not aware of any place to buy them. So for my last build, I just sandwiched a piece of .040 sheet on the back of the stock dash, and that actually worked out really well. So I did the same thing this time around. But some care is needed. Some of the things we normally mount in the dash (ignition switch, toggle switches, etc.) do not have enough threads for the thicker dash plus the covering. Ask me how I know that. I had to do some not too pretty after the fact mods on my last build. So this time around, put cutouts in the backer piece in the right places. I know this seems like a lot of messing around, and it probably is. Anyway, with the layout completed and the reliefs cut, I tacked the backer in place with some spots of JB Weld in all the right places. Once everything is installed (instruments, glovebox, etc.) it’s firmly held in place. The I cut out for the gauges, switches, etc. I used an adjustable circle cutter in my drill press for the larger gauge holes, and various step bits and whatever for the smaller stuff. The glovebox cutout was with a sabre saw. In most cases, I made the openings slightly larger so I can pie cut the leather and pull through and glue behind. I also added four tabs along the top which is how I like to hang the dash from the 3/4 inch dash tube. I placed them where they all have straight shots from the bottom for assembly and disassembly if required. Final results:





Two other comments. First, I looked for alternatives, but I ended up using Lucas switches for the wipers and hazards. I just haven’t found an acceptable alternative to the Lucas switch for the wipers. I’m amazed how much that’s discussed, e.g. guys not able to get them to work properly, park, etc. With that switch and wired properly, they work perfectly every time. Yea, there are some other wiring diagrams using relays, etc. But this is a case where simple is good IMO. But here’s a tip. Most of the “Lucas” switches sold in the U.S., at least that I’ve found, are not actual branded Lucas parts. Including the forum vendor that many of us use. They are knock-offs. I’ve found the genuine Lucas switches are better quality. I know that’s a relative thing when it comes to Lucas, but that’s my experience. If the switch doesn't come in a green box and have Lucas marked on the part, it's a knock-off. Additionally, the commonly used “Lucas” wiper switch doesn’t have a proper plated/polished finish on the front. The genuine Lucas switch does. Maybe it’s only me that notices stuff like that. It’s a little pricey, but I get the real Lucas stuff from Auto Electric Supplies Limited in England. They have a good website, ship quickly, and takes a week or so to cross the pond.

Second, I’ve added headlights on chimes (buzzers…) to my previous builds just to keep me from forgetting and leaving the lights on. Our DD’s have had automatic lights for years now, and I can just see myself forgetting. Plus these circuits don’t have a cut-off like most modern cars now. So if the lights are left on, they will stay on until the battery is dead. For my previous builds, I made my own using a Radio Shack chime and a relay. Pretty easy to do. With all our local stores closed and not wanting to really try to find another source, I noticed on Watson’s Streetworks website they had a nice light’s on reminder that even has a flashing light if you’re so inclined. Even better, I saw that it has an option to also hook to your turn signals so that you get an audible signal when the turn signals are flashing. I don’t know about you, but I can’t hear the flasher clicking in my car, and even with the dash indicator light, I occasionally discover the turn signals still flashing long after I’ve made a turn. I hate being one of those guys! The Russ Thompson system is great, but soft turns (like a wide LH turn) sometimes isn’t enough to shut if off. So here’s a pic of what I received from Watson’s. I’m going to mount the buzzer/light in the center brace pointing down. I don’t need to see it or the light. But that’s where I’ve mounted the reminder chime before, and it was exactly what I needed. If you’re interested in one of these, just be aware it’s not specifically listed on their website. You have to call and ask for #32021-CSTM Headlight/Turn Signal Reminder Buzzer.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #106 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Latest Update (continued)

OK, last update, and a pretty big one. All of us Anniversary Edition builders have been patiently (or maybe not so patiently) waiting for the special Wilwood brakes that are part of the package. This is the last backorder piece for me. I think others are in a similar position. Last Thursday, received an email from Jay at FF that I had a box on the way from Wilwood. I was a little disappointed to learn this was only the front brakes. But it’s progress. The box was scheduled to arrive on Wednesday, but yesterday look what the FedEx truck left for me:


At first I was a little surprised that 48 pounds was only the front brakes. But after opening the box and checking everything out, now I’m not surprised. These things are meaty! I’ve just played around a little, mainly wanting to confirm everything fits. So far, so good. I’m going to get to learn how to do safety wires for the mounting bolts between the hat and the rotor. The instructions say the wire is “optional” (I guess that’s why they don’t include it…) but I will be installing it. Some on the way.

Rotor:


Calipers and mounting brackets:


Temporarily installed one of the hats onto the rotor:


Did a quick check on the mounting. Other than I couldn't get a socket on the top mounting bracket to spindle bolt, all looks good:


Had to drag out one of the 18 inch wheels and check the clearance. All good there too! They look nice in there.


Next update I should have them all mounted. No word yet on the back brakes. I’ve asked, but no answers yet. Onward.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #107 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 06:59 PM
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Now you see why I think Power Brakes with the Wilwoods is overkill. I believe you will have better peddle feel while braking without the power assist and the effort required is minimal.
As for safety wires on the hat bolts..they are a requirement if you're doing all out road racing. I elected not to install them since it was more 'overkill' that people will NEVER see. For every day ripping around the streets, Wilwood states Locktite is more than adequate. If fact, I broke two bolts trying to remove them after running a season on the Wilwoods. What a pain to drill and extract those small broken bolts.
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post #108 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 09:03 PM
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Great looking glovebox!

MK II SOLD 03/2013: 302EFI,E303,GT40intake,Twisted Wedge heads,MSD ignition&distributor,4X4, 24#, 3.55, 8 .8.

MK IV Coyote Complete Kit #8075 arrived 6/26/13: 8.8 solid, 3.55:1, TKO 500, PS/PB/ABS/AC, 245/60R15 x 295/50R15, modular dash. Graduated May 2016.

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post #109 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Now you see why I think Power Brakes with the Wilwoods is overkill. I believe you will have better peddle feel while braking without the power assist and the effort required is minimal.
I agree. I've never talked about power brakes with this build, and typically make the same recommendation with Wilwood brakes. Not only because of the brakes themselves, but also because it negates the Wilwood pedal box balancing setup. I've used Wilwoods before, but these are a size bigger plus uses the same size rotor front and back. Something FF hasn't offered before.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #110 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 11:08 PM
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Edward ,beautiful work on the glove box . Couple questions about the process. When you bent the aluminum around the wood can you explain how you did the flange? Also when you cut out the glove box door ,did you cut it out with your saw also. Just looking for some more info on that box. Thanks
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post #111 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-25-2015, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
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Edward, beautiful work on the glove box. Couple questions about the process. When you bent the aluminum around the wood can you explain how you did the flange? Also when you cut out the glove box door, did you cut it out with your saw also. Just looking for some more info on that box. Thanks
It's always interesting to see what piques people's interest. I've received several questions on both forums about the glovebox. I should have taken more pictures! I didn't, so I'll try to explain. I've never tried to make anything like this before, so I was kind of making it up as I went. After I made the cardboard pattern confirming the overall shape, depth, clearance behind the dash in the chassis, etc., I made three identical patterns of the shape out of some scrap 3/4 inch pine boards. You can see them in the background of one of the pictures. I used three long bolts, and stacked the three pieces into a single assembly with washers between the layers so it ended up the same size as the inside of the glovebox. Then I cut a strip of 28 gauge galvanized steel from the heating/cooling aisle at Home Depot. It's the material used to make air handling ducts. I cut a piece 3/4 inch wider than the form (3/8 inch each side) and about 36 inches long. I formed it around the outside of the wood pattern, marking where a fold joint needed to be made. Took a couple tries to get the length just right, but then fit it back onto the wood pattern. I put the joint at the top where it would be least visible, and off to the side so it wouldn't interfere with the latch. I made the back out of .040 aluminum, exactly the same size as the wood pattern. I made the ring for the front out of .090 aluminum. I was afraid the .040 wouldn't be strong enough. I cut the inside hole to fit over the wood pattern with the steel sheet, and cut the outside roughly 3/8 inch larger. Starting with the back, I put the .040 sheet inside, made a bunch of slice cuts with a Dremel and cut-off wheel, and just hammered all the tabs over onto the back. I used the Dremel so there would be a little gap between the cuts allowing it to maybe form around the curves a little better and stack where they would overlap. Seemed to work OK. That kind of steel sheet is pretty malleable and can be worked into shape without too much effort. For the front, I slid the ring over the pattern, made a bunch of slice cuts with some tin snips, and then hammered all the tabs out onto the ring. I used some blocks underneath the ring as I was hammering to keep it all as straight as possible. Then I took everything apart. No surprise, it wasn't exactly easy to get the pine forms out of the inside, but eventually persuaded them out. Then used some JB Weld to glue the back and front pieces back on. I cut down one of my pattern pieces and used it with some weights to glue the back to all the bent tabs. For the front ring, used a bunch of clamps with it on a board to keep it straight and glued to all the bent tabs. Cleaned up the front edge and sanded away excess epoxy on the tabs and called it good. It all will be hidden once done.

With the glovebox finished, I made a door to match the shape, calculating the size taking into account the thickness of the covering both for the opening and for the door itself. I cut out the door my usual way, starting with a bandsaw and then cleaning/straightening on a Delta stationary disk sander. The door is two pieces of aluminum sheet that I'll cover and wrap, and then attach together so it's finished on both sides. When it's all covered, the door should be nearly zero clearance in the opening, and the walls of the glovebox about 1/16 inch inside the opening. I'll cover the dash without the glovebox in place, wrapping the covering around to the back. Some for the glovebox. I'll cover the inside and wrap out onto the ring. Then bolt it back into place, capturing the wrapped edges and giving a nice clean appearance. The remaining challenge will be to get the hinges in exactly the right locations so it opens properly and closes flush. But I won't be able to do much with that until everything is wrapped. So stay tuned.

Hope that all makes sense. I feel like it's harder to explain what I did than it was to actually do it. I wasn't sure what I was going, because like I said I was kind of making things up as I went. But I'm happy with how it turned out. Probably 8-10 hours of work over a couple days. Hope that helps for those of you interested.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Last edited by edwardb; 11-26-2015 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Fixed typos
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post #112 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-25-2015, 02:53 AM
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Have not been posting much on this thread... mainly because of drool on the key board.. But you are doing a fine job... like above... love the glove box

Thanks,
AL Adkins
Stoneville NC.

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post #113 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-26-2015, 07:19 AM
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Your explanation made perfect sense. Looking at your photos and reading along I was able to follow. Couple questions I have ,How did you mount the bolts for the dash ? It looks like having 2 layers on the dash allows you to flush the screws on the outer skin of dash .Than did you jb weld over the screws to smooth it all out ? On the door material, did you use a separate piece of aluminum instead of the cutout from the dash opening cut ? When I eventually do my glove box I had planned to use the cutout from the dash opening ,but not sure if that is the best way compared to other options out there. I do like how you doubled up the material, and I will definitely use that option . Thanks again for the info .The outcome of your glove box is looking great Stephen
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post #114 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-26-2015, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Your explanation made perfect sense. Looking at your photos and reading along I was able to follow. Couple questions I have. How did you mount the bolts for the dash? It looks like having 2 layers on the dash allows you to flush the screws on the outer skin of dash. Than did you jb weld over the screws to smooth it all out ?

I drilled the 6 mounting holes in the perimeter of the glovebox, and then used those to determine the locations of the holes in the dash. I countersunk the front just enough to drop the screw head below the surface. Then used JB Weld to glue them into the countersink and another layer over the top to make it all smooth. I haven't finished the last part yet. Still a little more filling and sanding to do. It's important to get those holes perfectly flush or they could print through to the covering. It's also important to get them pretty solidly mounted and then be careful with them until the glovebox is finally installed. You don't want them loose or spinning under the covering.

On the door material, did you use a separate piece of aluminum instead of the cutout from the dash opening cut?

Yes, you could use the dash opening cut-out as the door. You would just need to be more careful then I was. I drilled a too big starter hole for the sabre saw blade. So the cut-out had a pretty big divot out of it. Plus I had already made the door before I did the cut-out.

When I eventually do my glove box I had planned to use the cutout from the dash opening, but not sure if that is the best way compared to other options out there. I do like how you doubled up the material, and I will definitely use that option. Thanks again for the info. The outcome of your glove box is looking great Stephen
See answers above. Glad it all made sense. I fixed a couple typos in my write-up.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #115 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-28-2015, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Front Wilwoods Installed

This will be a short update by my long-winded standards. Finished installing the front Wilwood brakes this morning after receiving them earlier this week, so thought I would go ahead and post. This was probably one of the easiest steps in the build so far. Everything fit perfectly and the instructions from Wilwood were excellent. The quality of the parts seems outstanding. The one slight glitch was none of my sockets fit the top mounting adapter to spindle bolt. It’s supposed to be tightened to 60 ft-lbs, and needed to get a socket around it to set properly. The problem is there’s not enough clearance between the bolt head and where it fits into the spindle. A quick forum search found others had experienced the same problem. Some replaced the bolt with an Allen head cap screw. Others were able to find a socket that would fit. None of mine did. I dug an unused 3/4 inch socket out of an old tool box and spun it on the face of my disk sander until the diameter was reduced enough that it would fit into the available space. Reducing it from 1.00 inch to .960 inch was all it took.

The hats are attached to the rotors with twelve 1/4 inch bolts each. The instructions say they should be installed with red Loctite and optionally safety wired. I know by experience how easy it is to snap off 1/4 inch bolts when red Loctite is used. So I used just a small dab on each one and torqued to the specified 155 in-lbs, and decided to go ahead and safety wire them. Probably not required for my intended street driving and cruising, but I wanted to give it a try since I've never done safety wires before. Picked up the safety wire twisting pliers at a local tool store (interesting tool…) and some .032 safety wire from Aircraft Spruce. I printed the referenced Wilwood safety wire instructions and watched a bunch of YouTube videos. After too much turkey and football, my brother-in-law and I sat down and took a shot at it. The first ones took awhile, and there were several do-overs. But then kind of got the hang of it and finished the first rotor. Then later finished the second one relatively quickly. The rear brakes are assembled exactly the same way, so I’ll get some more practice once they arrive.

Two down, two to go.


Closer view. Don’t look too close.


With the rotors assembled and mounted on the chassis, mounted and torqued the mounting bracket and then the calipers. It’s necessary to center the caliper using provided shims (washers). Mine took two of the thicker ones all the way around and they were perfectly centered. Then installed the pads, and installed the caliper for the last time.


Last step was the stainless flex lines. I decided the flex lines worked best with the fittings in the calipers pointed down. Since it’s an NPT fitting into the caliper, I used Loctite 567 sealant on the threads. Just a light coat and kept it several threads away from the end. Then riveted the mounting plates and fittings into the F-panel openings. This is the same spot I’ve used for my other builds and I think is pretty typical. Then installed the flex lines and tightened the fittings with a flare nut wrench. No sealant on these threads! Turned the steering wheel lock-to-lock to confirm everything stayed where I wanted it, and called it done.




The rear brakes are currently promised to ship December 9. Hopefully that will happen. In the meantime, my shipment of 2015 Mustang GT radiator hoses is schedule for delivery on Monday. So hopefully my next update will show those installed along with the Moroso surge tank.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Last edited by edwardb; 11-28-2015 at 10:00 PM.
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post #116 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-29-2015, 12:11 AM
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Bleeders top and bottom? Cool!

MK II SOLD 03/2013: 302EFI,E303,GT40intake,Twisted Wedge heads,MSD ignition&distributor,4X4, 24#, 3.55, 8 .8.

MK IV Coyote Complete Kit #8075 arrived 6/26/13: 8.8 solid, 3.55:1, TKO 500, PS/PB/ABS/AC, 245/60R15 x 295/50R15, modular dash. Graduated May 2016.

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post #117 of 423 (permalink) Old 11-29-2015, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Bleeders top and bottom? Cool!
Yea, that was commented about on the other forum as well. The Wilwood instructions properly explain that only the top one in your installation is to used for bleeding. Probably it's a standardization thing so the same parts can be used in multiple models and orientations.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #118 of 423 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Coyote Radiator and Coolant Tank Update

This week I’ve nearly completed the installation and prove-out of the radiator and coolant expansion tank hook-ups. As mentioned in an earlier update, I decided to go with the Mustang radiator and coolant setup versus the FF described setup using the T-filler and simple overflow tank. It’s slightly more complicated, but I think (hope) in the end is maybe better since it’s how our friendly Ford engineers intended the cooling system to work. Thanks to previous Coyote builds and postings, I was able to find most of the necessary information. So thanks for that! I will provide updated details including 2015 Mustang part numbers, since there are a few changes.

First order of business was the coolant expansion tank itself. Many previous builds have used the stock expansion tank. It wasn’t bad looking, fit OK, and the price is reasonable. However, the design was changed for the 2015 version, and it’s not so good looking. It’s been affectionately dubbed the turtle, and probably some not quite so nice. Here's a picture from a stock Mustang.


I chose instead to install the 2015 Mustang replacement tank pictured previously, a Moroso 63806. About an $85 upgrade ($70 vs. $155) but I’ll take it. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out the best location that met up with the hoses, cleared everything including the hood, etc. Then I fabricated some mounting brackets that matched the stock mounting locations on the Moroso tank. This is one of the times where I realize I will never build one of these in the 200-300 hour range as FF suggests. It’s pretty crazy how many hours you can spend coming up with the best design, fabricating the parts, completing the do-overs, etc. until all is good. The tank uses two bolts along the front and then a mounting receptacle on the bottom. I decided to hang it off the 3/4 inch upper radiator mounting tube and rest on the fan shroud. I first made some brackets out of .090 inch aluminum. But I wasn’t satisfied with the rigidity or the appearance of cracks/fracturing when making the bends. Even over a soft radius. So I switched up and made the brackets out of 1/8 thick x 1 inch wide mild steel strip stock from HD. Riveted them to the front of the 3/4 inch tube and wrapped around to the back where I installed 5/16 rivet nuts. For the mounting receptacle, made it out of three stacked pieces of the same material and bolted to the top of the fan shroud. Takes lots of time to get these just right, in the right location, etc. I sprayed with the same Rust-Oleum used for touch up in other places. Matches the Anniversary powder coat pretty OK, and nearly hidden when all done. There is the final mounting bracketry. Looks innocent enough, but lots of work there:


Then installed the upper radiator hose and lower tank hose. I’ll give the part numbers for this stuff at the end.


Then installed the tank.



Looks good and I’m really happy with how it turned out. But even though I checked and double checked the dimensions, I began to have some doubt about whether I had it low enough to clear the hood. This is where it’s a huge luxury to have a completed Mk4 available. I measured exactly where the hood sits relative to the 3/4 inch hood frame, and set it in place on the new build.


Confirmed that all was good. Tank and cap clear everything by an inch or so. I also noted that the larger and taller looking Coyote engine cover easily fits under the hood. I did find though that my also carefully calculated brake and clutch reservoirs were at basically zero clearance. So adjusted them down about 3/8 inch, and all is good there as well.

One of the hoses goes from the tank to the DS of the radiator. It’s required you remove the supplied petcock and replace with a hose barb. I used this Gardner-Westcott J9033 hose barb to pipe fitting from Summit. The Ford hose will need to be trimmed a bit to route properly. Note this hose has a one-way check valve at the tank end, which needs to be left alone. I guess that’s also why it’s a $50 part. Fortunately, the only one that expensive.


So for other 2015 Coyote builds if you are interested, here are the specific parts used:
CL3Z-8260-A or KM-5114 - Upper radiator hose. This is actually a 2012 F150 upper hose. As others have found, fits a bit better than the Mustang upper hose with its longer straight section. It has the quick disconnect on the engine side. Then cut it right at the sharp bend (check carefully!) and it plugs perfectly into the Afco upper connection.
FR3Z-8C289-B - Large tank bottom to engine.
FR3Z-8075-C – Hose from tank top/front to radiator, including one-way check valve described earlier.
DG9Z-8100-A - Stock Mustang reservoir cap. There are shiny aftermarket billet versions available, but this one at < $4 is a bargain.
FR3Z-8276-B - Hose from the overflow tank top/rear to the water neck near the throttle body. This part I was unable to find at any Ford part location. Several reported back they had no promise dates from Ford. Fortunately, it’s a simple hose, so will just make it up from stock material. The tank side is 3/8 inch ID, the engine side is 5/16 ID. So will require a reducer. But that’s easy.
Dayco 71713, Jegs 679-MB1040, Breeze Automotive 70612 – These are the parts used to make up the lower radiator hose. Previously described and pictured, but thought I would add the details here to make a complete list.

Finally, since I’m not installing a heater, I will make up a heater bypass hose as recommended by Ford Racing and mentioned before, rather than just capping the connections. I have the Gates 28504 heater hose connectors on the way, and will connect the inlet and outlet as recommended. There is supposed to be a 5/16 inch restrictor in the line, which I’m planning to fabricate since I can’t find anything that meets that description. No big deal. When all is said and done, the only remaining connections on the front of the engine not accounted for are the vacuum port and fuel evaporator intake tube just behind the throttle body. Those will be capped per the FF Coyote instructions.

I received an email directly from Wilwood this past Thursday apologizing for the Anniversary brake delays, and promising my rear brakes will ship next week arriving before the weekend. I understand all Anniversary buyers received a similar message. Hopefully they will deliver on their promises and we all can get this behind us. I’m looking forward to wrapping up the brake installation and moving to brake lines, fuel lines, etc.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015-2016 Coyote.
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Last edited by edwardb; 02-03-2016 at 03:53 PM.
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post #119 of 423 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prescott / AZ
Posts: 8,258
Thanks for the great descriptions and part #'s along the way. I'll be doing another next summer with the 2015 engine. What is your pulley clearance to the front 4" cross-member?

MK II SOLD 03/2013: 302EFI,E303,GT40intake,Twisted Wedge heads,MSD ignition&distributor,4X4, 24#, 3.55, 8 .8.

MK IV Coyote Complete Kit #8075 arrived 6/26/13: 8.8 solid, 3.55:1, TKO 500, PS/PB/ABS/AC, 245/60R15 x 295/50R15, modular dash. Graduated May 2016.

MK IV Build Thread:
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post #120 of 423 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 07:21 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 1,281
The best part about plumbing the radiator in the OEM configuration is how easy filling the system and burping is (actually you don't have to burp it at all).

All you do to fill the dry system is pour coolant into the overflow tank and let the fluid level drop, fill again and let it drop, repeat until it stops dropping. Fill to the full line, start the engine and let it idle until up to temperature and the thermostat opens. Top off the overflow tank and you are done...

Couldn't be easier...

Kevin

MKIV, IRS/TruTrack/3.55s, Coyote, TKO600, Wilwoods
Delivered: 1/6/2012
First Start: 1/19/2014
First Go-Kart: 2/1/2014
Graduation: 1/4/2015

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