EdwardB’s Mk4 #8674 20th Anniversary Build - Page 3 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #61 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Coyote in the House (continued)

Last thing for now with the engine, I went through the Factory Five Coyote instructions and tried to verify every connection, hose, etc. Posted a forum thread, and received some good feedback. All is accounted for except two extra vacuum hoses by the throttle body. Thanks to another forum member, determined the one on the PS is for the power brakes booster, so I will remove and use that vacuum source for the fuel regulator. The one on the other side is for the already mentioned CMCV system. This will require a connection to the Spectre intake tube.

One aside comment. Some chatter on the forums about the necessity to use the remote oil filter setup. Many have avoided doing this by using a lower profile oil filter in the stock engine location, which is what I was planning. Some though didn’t like the reduced filter size/capacity as a result. I went ahead and picked up one of the recommended lower profile filters, an M1-113. Once home, I compared it to the OEM C336B filter I removed from the engine as received from the factory. Guess what? Same size. Looks like Ford had to reduce the size of the filter due to the oil cooler noted earlier? Also suggests this smaller filter should be fine. No remote oil filter for my build.


To wrap up, while I haven’t done much with it yet, here are some observations and pictures of the new control pack. First some obvious differences. The old control pack had the O2 connections on the supplied harness. The new engine has them integrated into the engine harness. (Even though the O2 sensors they provided don’t fit into the engine connectors. Open topic with Ford Racing technical support. Looks like they provided the rear sensors instead of the front ones. Same thing I guess but obviously different connectors.) Old harness has an electronic power steering connection, the new one doesn’t. No problem for our builds. New harness has A/C connections (not needed for my build) and clutch bottom and clutch top switches. More about that later. The new control pack has a brand new PCM and power distribution box. Both completely different than the old ones. The new control pack has a fault indicator light for the dash, I assume similar to a check engine light. Tells you a fault has occurred and you need to read the codes. Ford Racing tech told me the new control pack does NOT need the speed dial like the previous version. We’ll see I guess. Finally, and this one I’m a little upset/surprised about, the new control pack doesn’t have a tach connection. (!!) When I asked Ford Racing technical about this, he listed off all the stuff the new system has that weren’t in the old one. OK, but how you could miss this? He mentioned using an Autometer tach adapter. Don’t know about that. Looking at the Speedhut gauge instructions, looks like not too big a deal to tap into one of the wires on the coil-on-plug connectors and calibrate to that. To be continued.

OK, here are some pics: This is the new PCM. According to Ford, this is a “next generation” from the previous one, and a completely new operating system and program. Bet the tuner crowd likes that. It’s much smaller and lighter than the previous version, but looks like it will need to be mounted in a similar location based on the lengths of the supplied harness. A little interesting for me, I kind of recognize that supplier name on the PCM. I also recognize the codes and know this was manufactured in a plant in Seguin, Texas where I spent a lot of time. Yep, the company I retired from.


This is the new power distribution box. Looks a lot more like something you’d see under the hood of a DD. In fact, that’s probably what it is. No wires to connect on the inside of this one like the former version.



These are the already mentioned clutch “bottom” and clutch “top” switches provided. They have dedicated legs on the harness. According to Ford Racing tech, they are mandatory. The bottom switch is required as a starter interlock. The top switch apparently triggers some reaction by the PCM to the engine when the clutch is started down. I’m not going to question them. I will install but thinking not to use these exact switches. Measuring them, they’re just 2-wire NO and NC contact switches. I’m thinking I can use the typical switches we use on our builds, like the one on the right. The top switch can be mounted in the Wilwood box just like a brake switch, and in fact I already made and installed a bracket like that on the clutch side anyway. Then just need to figure out how to have a similar switch at the bottom of the clutch stroke. Stay tuned for that as well.


This is the provided drive-by-wire (DBW) accelerator pedal. Same one as before. Still thinking about how I’m going to do this one. Not a fan of the way FF suggests to modify it. Lots of ideas on the forums.


Quite a few changes in the way power is brought into the new harness. These are the power cables provided, including an inline 250 amp fuse. The main power input to the harness is the 2-pin large Weatherpack style connector on the right side. This goes into a connector next to the power distribution box.


Last but not least, no apparent change to the MAF sensor. The OEM one removes from the provided stock intake components and bolts into the recommended Spectre intake tube.


That’s way more than enough for now. My plan is to wrap up a few more details on the engine, and then drop into the chassis. Without the transmission for now, so should be easy enough. Obviously I will need to support it accordingly. I want to mock up and confirm all the engine compartment and footbox sheet metal.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Last edited by edwardb; 10-17-2015 at 07:09 PM.
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post #62 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 07:26 PM
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I like my Lokar Drive-by-Wire and pedal set-up; easy to install one and lots of pedal choices.


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post #63 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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I like my Lokar Drive-by-Wire and pedal set-up; easy to install one and lots of pedal choices.
Yea, I've looked at those. Nice. One of the options for sure. Just not a cheap one.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #64 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Yea, I've looked at those. Nice. One of the options for sure. Just not a cheap one.

I've seen references to using the pedal out of a Ford Fiesta (drive by wire). It's much smaller and thought I had seen somewhere that it works fine. May be worth googling it...

I used the supplied crate motor pedal, made my own bracket, and cut the bottom half of the foot contact area off... Works perfect.

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post #65 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bansheekev View Post
I used the supplied crate motor pedal, made my own bracket, and cut the bottom half of the foot contact area off... Works perfect. Kevin
I've bookmarked several approaches like that. Probably yours is one of them. That's my number one option right now. Thanks!

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post #66 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-19-2015, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
When I was ready to click the button to purchase last week, the first place I went said “Ford Coyote M-6007-M50 no longer available, replaced with M-6007-M50A.” ...It’s rated at 430 HP and just over 400 torque. ...Some of the changes to the 2015-2016 engine are bigger heads and valves. ...A revised crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, and a couple internal changes to the block. A major addition is charge motion control valves (CMCV) added to the intake manifold. This was something used before on 3V mod motors, as I understand, and one of the first performance modifications was to remove them. Ford claims these were done right on the Coyote, and get totally out of the way when open. They are supposed to provide better low-end torque without affecting high rpm power.
You are correct except the motor has 435 horsepower (not 430) @ 6500 rpm and 400 ft/lb of torque @ 4250 rpm (with premium fuel).

Here is the breakdown:

NEW Ford Performance Mustang Coyote 5.0L 435HP Crate Engine M-6007-M50A

Coyote Control Pack M-6017-504V Recommended
Detailed Specs and Notes:
  • 435 Horsepower, 400 ft/lbs Torque
  • 11.0:1 Compression ratio
  • Lightweight aluminum block features cross-bolted main bearing caps and thick bulkheads for bottom-end strength
  • Piston cooling jets and optimized oil drainback and windage control to improve high-rpm performance
  • Large sump oil pan with 8qt capacity
  • Tuned composite intake manifold provides efficient air delivery and weight savings
  • 80 mm single bore drive by wire throttle body
  • Four-valve-per-cylinder aluminum heads with roller-finger followers reduce friction
  • Includes Mustang GT 409 stainless-steel tubular exhaust manifold on the RIGHT SIDE ONLY
  • Includes manual transmission engine harness and flywheel
  • Vehicle harness and PCM not included
  • Use Control Pack M-6017-A504V designed for street rod/project car installation
  • Does not include alternator for alternator kit see M-8600-M50ALT
  • 5.0L Mustang engine cover kit available see M-9680-M50A
  • Remote Mount Filter Adapter M-6881-M50 available for applications requiring oil filter relocation
  • Engine mount bosses and bellhousing mount pattern common to 4.6L modular engines
  • Photo and specs may vary as production is ongoing
  • Engine weight: 444 lbs

OUTGOING Ford Performance Mustang Coyote 5.0L 420HP Crate Engine M-6007-M50

Coyote Control Pack M-6017-A504V Recommended
Detailed Specs and Notes
  • 420 Horsepower, 390 ft/lbs Torque
  • 11.0:1 Compression ratio
  • Lightweight aluminum block features cross-bolted main bearing caps and thick bulkheads for bottom-end strength
  • Piston cooling jets and optimized oil drainback and windage control to improve high-rpm performance
  • Large sump oil pan with 8qt capacity
  • Tuned composite intake manifold provides efficient air delivery and weight savings
  • 80 mm single bore drive by wire throttle body
  • Four-valve-per-cylinder aluminum heads with roller-finger followers reduce friction
  • Includes manual transmission engine harness and flywheel
  • Vehicle harness and PCM not included
  • Use Control Pack M-6017-A504V designed for street rod/project car installation
  • Does not include alternator for alternator kit see M-8600-M50ALT
  • 5.0L Mustang engine cover kit available see M-9680-M50
  • Remote Mount Filter Adapter M-6881-M50 available for applications requiring oil filter relocation
  • Engine mount bosses and bellhousing mount pattern common to 4.6L modular engines
  • Photo and specs may vary. These features apply for engine code EG-397-AA. Engines are this build code or newer while supplies last.
  • Engine weight: 444 lbs

Honestly you probably won't notice the difference in power, but I suspect the revisions were more about longevity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Then I found they have released a brand new control pack M-6017-504V for the 2015-2016 engine, which is mandatory. The 2011-2014 engine won’t work with the new control pack and the 2015-2016 won’t work the old control pack.
Correct again.

NEW FORD RACING 5.0L COYOTE ENGINE CONTROL PACK — M-6017-504V

Designed to run:
  • M-6007-M50A 4 Valve crate engines
Ford Performance Instructions

OUTGOING FORD RACING 5.0L COYOTE ENGINE CONTROL PACK — M-6017-A504V

Designed to run:
  • M-6007-M50 4 Valve crate engines
  • M-6007-A50NA 5.0L 4V crate engines
  • M-6007-A50SC
  • M-6007-A50XS 5.0L 4V Aluminator XS crate engines
  • Salvage motors from 2011-2014 Mustang GT.
  • Salvage motors from 2012-2013 Boss 302 with aftermarket custom software tuning.
  • Salvage motors from 2012-2013 F150 with aftermarket custom software tuning.
Ford Performance Instructions

Sadly I've already purchased the older control pack. I just looked on the box of my control pack and the number says M-6017-A504V. The "A" is the difference in the part numbers. So I will be on the hunt for the older motor.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg M-6017-A504V-controller.jpg (223.4 KB, 805 views)
File Type: jpg M-6007-M50big.jpg (69.6 KB, 803 views)
File Type: jpg m6017504v_8119.jpg (32.9 KB, 801 views)
File Type: jpg m6007m50a_1.1529.jpg (110.2 KB, 809 views)

Chris

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post #67 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-19-2015, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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You are correct except the motor has 435 horsepower (not 430) @ 6500 rpm and 400 ft/lb of torque @ 4250 rpm (with premium fuel).

Here is the breakdown... (
Thanks for the added info. Yea, some places state the new version as 430 HP, some 435, etc. Same thing with the previous version. Some said 412, some said 420, etc. Most seem to agree the 2015 engine has roughly 15 HP more than the previous version, with improved low end torque. Looks like most of what you posted is cut and paste from somewhere. Interesting that the majority of the bullet points for the new engine are common to both, and they even reference the wrong control pack. The points that I referenced in my earlier post -- larger heads, valves, slightly different pistons, rods, crankshaft, block, the added CMCV, and the new version control pack -- seem to be the main differences between the 2011-2014 and 2015-2016 Coyotes.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #68 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-19-2015, 08:41 PM
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Yeah, I've seen varying information out there as well. The initial release of the Coyote had 412hp, and later upped it to 420hp in 2013, but I think torque was the same. There were other revisions within 2011-2014 to things like the pistons (initially had oil squirters, then were removed) as well as mounting bosses for front accessories changed. These things are always being revised. Glad you're sorting things out with the latest. I'm wishing I waited on getting my engine pack now.

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post #69 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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My Take on the Coyote Accelerator Pedal

Like many modern EFI engines, the Coyote is a Drive-By-Wire (DBW) setup, meaning no physical connection to the engine. Accelerator pedal movements send a signal to the engine computer, which in turn uses an electric motor on the throttle body to open/close the valve. The Coyote crate motor includes the required DBW accelerator pedal. It’s large and a little clunky, and requires some level of modification to fit. Factory Five includes a multi-page set of instructions for modifying the provided piece, which many have done successfully. But some, including me, find it a little crude. There are a couple alternatives. Use the existing pedal maybe improving a little on the mods. Use a similar module from a 2014 Ford Van which is smaller and fits better/looks neater. Or go all in with a Lokar DBW module and pedal which several have done. Option one is basically free, e.g. I already paid for it. Option two is around $100. Option three is in the $400+ range, depending on which pedal assembly you pick. After reading every forum thread and post on the subject I could find, one of the takeaways is none of the options provide any real upgrade to how the system works. All are similar. It seems mainly about fit and appearance. So I decided to do my own take on using the already received Ford Racing pedal assembly. If I wasn’t happy with how it turned out, easy enough to look at the other options with nothing lost but my time. Which I have plenty of right now! I really like the Lokar option, and spent quite a bit of time looking at it, looking at pictures guys have posted with it installed, and generally just trying to convince myself it was a good idea. But that’s expensive, and even though this isn’t a low budget build, happy to spend the money elsewhere.

My review of the installation guys have done with the existing pedal showed two major issues: One being appearance. The grafted on pedal and that big chunky module just don’t look very nice. Second, as installed, it shortens the overall pedal length some, resulting in higher effort and more sensitive throttle response. I don’t know if this has really been tested and compared, but makes sense if the lever arm is shorter. So I approached my install trying to address these two points. In order to not cut off the arm so much and not have the pedal too low, the overall assembly needs to be raised. The standard FF install bolts it pretty much to the existing accelerator mounting plate. Several guys have figured out how to get it mounted higher. One moved it way up and left the arm intact, which looked good, but it involved removing the FF mounting plate, and that didn’t leave me a way back if I didn’t like how it turned out. So I tried to find a happy medium.

My first step was to trim the module basically as outlined in the FF instructions. I tried to do it neat and clean so it looked like it was made that way. I also trimmed the big round pads off the outside mounting ears. They don’t add anything structural because they don’t contact on the back. Perhaps in the production cars they fit into a grommet or something. Not on our cars. With the module as small as it could be, and without the pedal cut off yet, I made a pattern using a cereal box (nothing too good for me) to move it up as high as it seemed practical. I also tried to keep it over toward the center of car as much as possible so the pedal hit where I wanted it in the footbox without the module being at a wonky angle. All was good until I found the connector location at the very top of the module was now too close to the steering column. So I removed some ribs on the side of the module where it was against the 3/4 inch tube to get it over about another 1/4 inch and all was good. Once I was happy with the template, made the real thing out of 3/16 inch aluminum plate and got the module placed where it looked pretty good. Then I took the FF supplied accelerator pedal, and using clamps, determined where it needed to be mounted on the module arm. I was looking at the length and also depth behind the brake pedal. The module placement had already pretty much determined the side-to-side location. Since I’m very satisfied with the pedal spacing on my current Mk4, I tried to duplicate those dimensions. I’m happy to say it’s very close. Note, as mentioned earlier, I didn’t have the pedal cut off yet. This was to try to address the appearance aspect. FF has you cut the arm off pretty short, leaving a stub visibly showing. My idea was to leave the arm as long as possible, and have it end behind the FF pedal itself, therefore more hidden. Also allowed me to space the mounting bolts a little further apart, which in theory is more structurally sound. So with the FF pedal location now determined, cut off the module pedal, and bolted it to the side of the module arm. Sprayed some of my (almost) matching Rust-Oleum paint on the bracket, and this morning put it all back together. I set the seat in the cockpit and checked out how it felt. All good. I think it’s a keeper. My only quibble at this point is the black non-skid surface on the FF pedal doesn’t match the other pedals that well. I may do something with that, but for now I’m leaving it as is. Here are a few pics.

Paper template and aluminum piece after finalizing.


First time installed.


From the inside, showing it slightly notched around the 3/4 inch tube.


Mocking up the FF pedal graft.


Graft complete and bent to match the module arm. Note I didn’t cut off the end of the FF pedal arm as instructed. Looks a little better, plus this also shows my version is about 1 inch longer. Only slightly shorter than the stock version. I’m thinking (hoping) I won’t be able to tell the difference.


Adapter plate all painted and ready to install. I threw a ruler next to it.


All done.


Couple of other Coyote updates since my last post. I mentioned before about the provided O2 sensors not matching the connectors with the engine harness. I’ve been back and forth with Ford Racing tech support on this one, and after sending pictures they agreed there is a problem. They checked an engine they had, plus also with engineering, and now confirm I have the wrong sensors. They are in the process of sending replacement parts. Note the O2 sensors I received are the exact ones called out in the new control pack instructions. So hopefully they will be changing that. Also note this is one of the differences between the new version of the Coyote and the previous one. Before the O2 sensor connectors were on the provided control pack harness. Now they are already on the engine, and not on the control pack harness. This does present a little bit of a challenge. Guys were able to adjust the former harness and sometimes get the cables to reach the sensors without extensions. Not so now. The O2 sensor connections on the new engine are fixed. One at the top RH rear corner, and the other on the lower LH side right next to the oil level sensor. I’ve checked using my new stainless headers and the provided O2 sensors. Both are 6-12 inches short of reaching the O2 bung. I’ll see if the new sensors they provide are similar (expect they will be) and determine the extensions needed once I mock everything up in the chassis. But expect to require extensions in all cases with the new engine. Ford Racing tech also confirmed, again this time from engineering, that the new control pack does not have a tach connection. I’m also waiting for their best and final opinion about the speed dial question. There still seems to be some question about that. The manual transmission engine provided as a crate motor does not have a transmission connection, even though there is one showing in the instructions. Another error. So no speed sensor connection there and none through the new control pack. Doesn’t the PCM require vehicle speed? That’s my question. I don’t see now where it would get it. My build has a GPS speedometer, so I actually don’t even need the speed sensor output for the gauges. But there’s one built into the TKO, so easy enough to feed that to the engine setup if required. But still an open question.

I’m back to doing fill-in work until my bell housing arrives. When it does, I’ll be dropping the engine into the chassis and start finalizing footbox sheet metal.
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Last edited by edwardb; 02-03-2016 at 03:52 PM.
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post #70 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 04:01 PM
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Caspers Electronics has O2 sensor extensions using OEM quick disconnect connectors in stock lengths (or can make them custom lengths for you).

They are inexpensive - my drivers side custom length (3') extension was $25.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/

Kevin


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post #71 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bansheekev View Post
Caspers Electronics has O2 sensor extensions using OEM quick disconnect connectors in stock lengths (or can make them custom lengths for you).

They are inexpensive - my drivers side custom length (3') extension was $25.

CASPER'S ELECTRONICS - Quality Automotive Parts and Accessories - Specializing in automotive interconnect and wiring systems

Kevin
Thanks! I have that site bookmarked from previous discussions about the topic. Once I figure what I need based on what Ford sends me plus mocking up the engine in the chassis, I'll be contacting them.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #72 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 06:11 PM
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The new Coyote does not seem to be as "plug-n-play" friendly as the older version?

MK II SOLD 03/2013: 302EFI,E303,GT40intake,Twisted Wedge heads,MSD ignition&distributor,4X4, 24#, 3.55, 8 .8.

MK IV Coyote Complete Kit #8075 arrived 6/26/13: 8.8 solid, 3.55:1, TKO 500, PS/PB/ABS/AC, 245/60R15 x 295/50R15, modular dash. Graduated May 2016.

MK IV Build Thread:
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post #73 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale View Post
The new Coyote does not seem to be as "plug-n-play" friendly as the older version?
I wouldn't say that. Yet. The changes made to the engine itself have been well regarded in Mustang circles. As for the crate motor control pack, also some nice changes which I documented previously. But also looks like "teething issues" (I'll call it that) for early adopters. Ford Racing tech support has been OK and willing to help, but also learning about the new setup. Keep in mind I'm going into this with zero Coyote knowledge and/or experience. Add the new version on top, and makes it interesting. We'll see how this all turns out, but I think it's going to be fine. Just some differences.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #74 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dale View Post
The new Coyote does not seem to be as "plug-n-play" friendly as the older version?
Threee big differences appear to be:
  • Charge Motion Control Valves (CMCV) and where to pickup vacuum for them
  • No Tach Signal - WTF? (my guess is in the short term someone will figure out what pin on the ECU to tap into that currently doesn't have a wire in the supplied harness - in the long term Ford will make a running change to add a tach lead to the harness)
  • O2 sensors and wiring now in engine harness vs controls pack harness - Edwardb was shipped the wrong O2 sensors so the correct ones should be plug and play still (with some extensions as needed)

It seems like whether the new controls pack needs a speed signal is the big bogey once again. I recall this being debated for over a year in 2011 and 2012 - in the end with both options being viable (tune out the stalling without the Speed Dial or use the Speed Dial and use stock tune or an aftermarket tune without special consideration for stalling). BTW - the old design didn't have provisions for the Speed Dial either and you needed to add pins/wires to one of the big connectors on your own.

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post #75 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bansheekev View Post
Threee big differences appear to be:
  • Charge Motion Control Valves (CMCV) and where to pickup vacuum for them
  • No Tach Signal - WTF? (my guess is in the short term someone will figure out what pin on the ECU to tap into that currently doesn't have a wire in the supplied harness - in the long term Ford will make a running change to add a tach lead to the harness)
  • O2 sensors and wiring now in engine harness vs controls pack harness - Edwardb was shipped the wrong O2 sensors so the correct ones should be plug and play still (with some extensions as needed)

It seems like whether the new controls pack needs a speed signal is the big bogey once again. I recall this being debated for over a year in 2011 and 2012 - in the end with both options being viable (tune out the stalling without the Speed Dial or use the Speed Dial and use stock tune or an aftermarket tune without special consideration for stalling). BTW - the old design didn't have provisions for the Speed Dial either and you needed to add pins/wires to one of the big connectors on your own. Kevin
While it's way to early to say all the differences are uncovered, I'm pretty sure I have these mostly under control.

CMCV vacuum: I'm adding a connection to the Spectre intake the same as the stock intake. Also adding one for the DS PCV circuit, also same as the stock intake. Just ordered the connectors from JLT Performance today. They are made to be installed with a rubber grommet. The guy from JLT was very helpful when I talked to him today. Said he "thought" the grommet would work OK in the curved aluminum Spectre intake. But said since the parts they're providing are aluminum, plan B they could be welded to the intake if I knew someone who was good at welding aluminum. I do.

Tach signal: They certainly missed that one. I have to believe 99.99% of the target audience for this crate motor and control pack have a tach. I agree a running change would seem likely, but doesn't help me much. Fortunately, I'm using Speedhut gauges and this is directly addressed in their instructions. I just need to tap one of the signal wires for one coil -- either directly at the coil or somewhere in the harness, still TBD -- and that attaches to the Speedhut tach signal wire. Calibrate to .5 pulse per rev and should be good to go. Hope it's that easy.

O2 sensors: Getting new parts as I mentioned. But as I also mentioned, this isn't just a matter of sending the wrong parts. (Well I guess it sorta is...) They sent the parts listed in the instructions. They're just don't fit the connectors on the engine. The wrong parts were specified. I'm sure this will be corrected at some point.

Speed dial: This is the only one still open for me. The tech at Ford Racing was pretty confident it's no longer required, just as (he claimed) it was no longer required in later versions of the previous model. I suspect some will disagree, but that's what he told me. Regardless, he's checking with engineering to get their input. It's true that when the speed dial first came out as a fix, it was necessary to break into the harness to install. The most recent version of the 2011-2014 control pack specifically advertises though that it has the wires for the speed dial already installed. But it's not mentioned anywhere in the 2015-2016 control pack instructions. Interesting.

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post #76 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Poised for Engine Mock-up

Spent time yesterday making some lift plates for the engine out of 1/4 inch steel plate. The DS attaches to the factory lift location. The PS to a pair of exhaust manifold bolts. My tools are pretty lightweight for dealing with steel plate, but got through it. They work great. Threw some towels in there to keep from marking up my shiny new engine while dragging the chains around. The lift plates do add some width to the engine during installation. I should be OK with the DS because it's well in front of the footbox. The PS could be challenging during final assembly. But I'll find out during the mock-up, and shouldn't have any problems this time around since I don't have any of the PS panels installed yet. I did finally receive the right Quicktime bell housing on Friday, and it seems to fit fine. I have a couple other parts scheduled for delivery on Monday, and then will drop the engine in.

I'll be using the Whitby motor mount spacers. This morning I was reviewing a newer edition of the FF Coyote installation instructions than the one I had before. Not sure how that happened. But I see now FF is showing an L-shaped spacer between the engine and motor mount on the DS (left). But that side only. Interesting. I also saw where they're no longer showing that collection of fittings allowing both the stock and aftermarket oil pressure connections. They just remove the stock connection, and replace it with the aftermarket one from the gauges. I'm assuming the PCM doesn't see the missing connection as an error condition. Same question about the oil level sensor on the bottom of the pan. I'm hearing I can disconnect that too. I need to verify the new PCM doesn't have a problem with either of these.

Here's the Coyote waiting to be dropped in. I made an engine cradle a couple builds ago out of some scrap lumber, and it's served me well. With a couple tweaks fits the Coyote mounts. I'm just a little too paranoid to leave the engine hanging on the hoist for very long, even though many do it and I've never had a problem. Plus handy for longer term storage once the bell housing and trans are installed and can't use the engine stand.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #77 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 03:43 AM
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Exciting times.

From what I remember, your home made mounting locations will be fine. The stock lift hocks that came with earlier models were mounted on the back of the PS cylinder head and the opposite corner on the DS head. The unit sides in very easily for such a wide power plant.

I wound up having to use one Whitby spacer only on the DS. As for the oil pressure, you may want to reconsider the plumbing as outlined in the original install instructions and have the stock sensor plugged into the PCM along with an output for the dash gauge. The PCM control strategy may include forcing the engine to idle in the event you lose oil pressure. A handy safety feature.
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post #78 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 03:45 AM
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Wish I could talk a local club member into upgrading to a new car, would love to help work on it and inspect all the new goodies.
Hey Rich, I know a guy that's been working on his build for a few years, maybe we could talk him into retrofitting his T-Bird/Lincoln IRS for the new unit
Maybe it would re-motivate him to finishing it this winter, then he'd have a finished one and a go-kart in the Spring!

This is a very cool build, FFR has made some nice improvements in the MK4.


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post #79 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 05:25 PM
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I am just catching back up to your latest posts and had a thought Re: the clutch switches. I suspect that the clutch down switch is normally open so it closes and completes the circuit when the pedal is near the floor. But what about the top switch, normally opened or closed?

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I am just catching back up to your latest posts and had a thought Re: the clutch switches. I suspect that the clutch down switch is normally open so it closes and completes the circuit when the pedal is near the floor. But what about the top switch, normally opened or closed?
Interesting question, and hopefully my answer isn't too confusing. I was at first... Both switches are listed in the instructions as normally open. In reality, the top switch actually measured normally closed and the bottom switch normally open. After thinking about it a little, realized both were right.

The top switch is pressed down when the clutch is in the full up position and at that point is open. When the clutch is pushed in, it closes. Same as a typical brake switch. The bottom switch is normally open at all times except when the clutch pedal is pushed all the way down closing the switch. The bottom switch, as I understand, is the starter interlock. I'm not 100% sure at this point how the PCM reacts to the top switch closing.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #81 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 06:02 PM
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I'm guessing that one switch is the starting interlock and the other provides the "Speed Dial" function, to prevent stalling when rolling to a stop? Just an uneducated guess...

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post #82 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-26-2015, 02:08 AM
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Top switch, cruise control disable, prevent engine run away, over rev, such as pushing in the clutch while at full throttle?
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post #83 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-26-2015, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm guessing that one switch is the starting interlock and the other provides the "Speed Dial" function, to prevent stalling when rolling to a stop? Just an uneducated guess...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
Top switch, cruise control disable, prevent engine run away, over rev, such as pushing in the clutch while at full throttle?
It would be great if they've programmed the speed dial requirement out somehow. Either with the clutch top switch or some other method. The Ford Racing tech guy I talked to actually also suggested the top switch may have something to do with not requiring the speed dial. But he admitted he didn't know that for sure. Only guessing. The information in the instructions is pretty limited about both.

"The switches translate the clutch pedal position to the PCM. The bottom travel switch also acts as a starter safety interlock. The starter motor will not energize until the clutch has been fully depressed."

Also related: "The system supports use of a manual transmission only" and "Cruise control is not available with this system."

So cruise control disable doesn't seem to be one of the choices. As I said earlier, I will incorporate both of these switches into the build. I will keep trying to find out what they actually do, other than the interlock which is pretty obvious.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #84 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-26-2015, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quick IRS Update

I know some are following this thread because of the new IRS setup, so thought I would pass this along. Yesterday afternoon I got a little bored (OK, both of my football teams were losing badly...) so I decided to play around with the IRS alignment. Just to get it somewhere in the ballpark. Used a level on the hubs for camber and a laser level pointed toward the front of the car for toe. Like I said, really rough. They were clearly way off from the original assembly. What I discovered is now quite obvious in hindsight, but I missed it during the initial assembly and I don't remember it from the instructions. It it's there, I obviously overlooked it. For the two adjustment points on each side, it's necessary to have equal threads showing on both sides before you bolt in the heim joint. I had the toe adjustment pretty centered, but that was mostly by accident I guess. For the camber adjustment, I had the fitting almost all the way into the UCA, but then the heim joint only about halfway in. So it was impossible to adjust it properly. I had to remove the large bolt holding the joint to the knuckle, center things up, and re-torque the bolt. Now it works perfectly. In both cases, you loosen the jam nut on each side and rotate the center adjuster as required. Then tighten the jam nuts. That's it. No dis-assembly required.

Here are a couple of pics. Camber adjustment showing equal threads on both sides now:


Toe adjustment showing roughly equal threads on both sides. Note where I have these as pictured is roughly to the spec. Looks like plenty of adjustment still available either way, and plenty of thread engagement. Also note, not surprisingly, the adjustments interact with each other. Adjusting camber also affects toe. Adjusting toe also affects camber. I'm planning to have the car professionally 4-wheel aligned when the time comes.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #85 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-27-2015, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Engine In

Late yesterday I dropped the Coyote into the chassis for the first time. Hanging over the engine compartment, my first impression is there’s no way that thing will fit in there. But it does! Went it with relatively little drama. This is just a mock-up, so in some ways not completely how it will be when I do the “real” installation. The engine had the bell housing but no transmission. The DS footbox was just set in place, and no PS footbox yet. Next time around it will be different, and I won’t be doing it alone. But based on this first experience, I think it will be OK. I guess I shouldn’t say I was alone. My longsuffering wife helped by keeping it from swinging around, and being another set of eyes as we lowered it into place. I kept my promise of no heavy lifting!

What I learned. The engine hooks I made will be fine. Front DS is wide open. The PS rear can’t be in the back cylinder exhaust header holes, but one forward. Then it will clear the PS footbox. The steering column needs to be swung out of the way to clear the alternator going in. I just loosened all the set screws, pulled it off the steering column, and swung that end over. The 2bking modified panels on the DS are awesome. Wow, what a great job he did on those. The head sits in the DS footbox perfectly, and the restored space for the driver’s feet below is outstanding. FF needs to make this a standard for the Coyote builds. Completely removes one of the major objections. I was thinking of doing an expanded footbox on the PS. But the gained space isn’t that much, and the factory pieces I have already are powder coated with the anniversary white PC. I’m going to use them as is. I used Whitby spacers on both motor mounts. Both motor mount bolts are in the bottom of the slots, and the engine is relatively level. I will be leaving both in. I have the engine blocked at 2 degrees down measured off the dampener, roughly what I expect it will be when the transmission is installed and pinion angle set. The Moroso pan is slightly above the frame rails in the front, and just flush or very slightly below in the back. Fine with that. The Quicktime bell housing does extend a little lower than the pan on the bottom circle. I would say about 1/2 inch. I will probably go ahead and trim that off. But honestly if I get in a situation where I hit that, I’m probably hitting something else too. We’ll see. Also confirmed the shorter/compact oil filter clears the 4 inch chassis tube just fine. No remote oil filter to install. Fine by me.

I bolted in the stainless headers. PS, obviously especially without the footbox there, was wide open and easy as can be. Note to self. Get all the bolts started before tightening any of them! Even finger tight. The header flange is very precise. Now the DS is another whole story. I was able to get 4-5 of them on with a little effort, but there are a couple that are nearly impossible. I’ve read about this, and my experience is quite typical. Some guys put an access panel in the footbox, but for now I’m not planning to do that. My thought is for the hard to reach ones to use studs vs. the allen head bolts I'm using everywhere else. I think I’ve read where others have done this as well. Assuming there’s enough room to get the header into the opening and hooked over the studs. Another thought, which I’m seriously considering, is to install the DS header during engine installation. Once the engine is low enough that the header can go under the 3/4 inch frame tube, go ahead and install the DS header while more accessible. Using a combination of bolts and studs, still would able to re-torque the bolts later if necessary after a few run cycles. But anything more may require loosening the engine mounts and lifting the engine. Not something I want to think about, but not unlike many regular production cars. I’m planning to use Remflex gaskets, and I’ve had great luck with those. Both of my former builds haven’t needed the exhaust headers touched after the initial installation. Hopefully my luck will hold.

I also test fit the Gas-N side pipes. Wasn’t particularly easy because how I have the frame sitting on my 2-post, the pipes hit the side arms. So I had to lift each side to check them. But I wanted to get a sanity check on what pipe alignment looked like. I’ve had to work with this a lot on my previous builds, and many can cite how this aspect has kept them awake at night. I’m happy to report it looks pretty good. The ends of the Stainless headers exit the frame area at nearly the exact location on both sides and the pipe alignment seems OK. Both pipes will likely take a little bit of wedge to get parallel to the body. The DS more than the PS. This will all be finalized later during body installation. But I’m very satisfied with this initial check.

Here are some pics of the engine install. Engine hovering over its intended destination:


Settling in:


All in. Note these are the newer style 2015-2016 covers. A little chunky looking compared to the previous style, but they’re growing on me. I think they’re a little different around the back with the new CMCV setup on this engine.



DS stainless headers, after some “minor” frustration getting most of the bolts in.


PS stainless headers. Also checking the fit and clearance of the PS footbox pieces. All good.


This afternoon I starting playing with some of the control pack components, trying to decide where best to locate things. Still way more planning and work to do here, but here’s a couple first shots. Based on where the main harness comes off the engine (I think the same as the 2011-2014 engine) and the length of that harness, the PCM has to go alongside the engine. No way it will reach the firewall or even PS footbox as some have done. This location for the PCM allows the engine harness and then also the control pack harness to plug in reasonably OK and look decent from the engine side. I tried every possible angle, location, upside down, right side up, multiple cable routings, etc. This seems about the best. I will need to design and fabricate some type of tray for the PCM to set in. I wish it could be further from the headers, because I have to think there’s going to be a little more radiated heat there than elsewhere. But I don’t see where I have a choice. The PCM case has what looks like heat fins on one side, and those aren’t facing the headers. So if I shield the other side some – while still allowing airflow all around it – I think it should be OK. It’s designed to work in the harsh underhood environment, but don’t want to heat it unnecessarily.


I’m thinking the power distribution box will be somewhere in this area on the firewall. It’s just too big to fit behind the dash. I’m not planning a heater – only heated seats like I’ve done before – so I have some flexibility of where to place it on the firewall. Just need to find the best location taking into account the wiper motor and fuel lines and regulator. With the box in this location, the large bundled harness back to the PCM is still a bit too long, but I can deal with that in the fender well area I think. I may have to adjust the lengths a bit on a couple of the cables that go into the dash area. But that’s not something I have any qualms about doing and the smaller cables only have a few conductors.


I still have a lot of studying and thinking to do about joining the control pack wiring into the RF harness and main power wiring. The control pack came with a bunch of big power wires, including the main alternator charging wire, starter power wiring, etc. It’s not just clear to me why I would need to do those differently than I have in the past with the RF harness. As long as I have the always on connection from the battery to the main power input on the power distribution box, I think I have the power covered. And obviously the control pack has its own wires to the starter, ignition switch, cooling fan, fuel pump, etc. But need to spend more time with this. It’s definitely different than the previous version.

Still to be checked out are the intake, radiator and cooling lines, radiator reservoir, power steering lines and reservoir, brake and clutch reservoirs, fuel lines and regulator, and a decision about battery location. Still going back and forth between the Breeze front mount and the FFMetals under trunk mount. There is a lot going on in there. Still having fun though!

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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Last edited by edwardb; 10-27-2015 at 11:39 PM.
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post #86 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-27-2015, 11:09 PM
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Nice work! Engine looks really good in there.
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post #87 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 01:11 AM
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My envy meter just shot off the scale. The build is so much fun.

I didn't get too hung up about bolt torque when it came to the installation of the the Stainless Headers. I removed the factory studs from my Coyote and used zinc clad bolts as specified in the FFR instructions. Yep, some of the DS bolts are a little tricky to get at. I originally had the FFR shorty headers installed and they were a nightmare. So for the Stainless Headers I was able to a get a torque wrench on most. The others got my less calibrated box end. I used some blue thread lock and I have rechecked after lots of miles and everything is still tight and true.
Its good to get picture of those headers now. Once the body is on its a shame you can't see them very well.

Question: Did the kit come with coloured rivets to match the PC aluminum panels.

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post #88 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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Question: Did the kit come with coloured rivets to match the PC aluminum panels.
No. Those white rivets are from McMaster. They're just painted, so you have to be gentle with them. But I'll use them for all the exposed rivets on the white panels.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Deliv: 09/09/2012. Legal: 03/30/2015. Red/white club (again). 2015 FFR Open House "Best in Show"
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post #89 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 03:06 PM
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post #90 of 432 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 03:13 PM
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Arrived 12/18/2011, Coyote 5.0, T56, IRS, Torsen Diff, PS, Hydraboost PB + ABS, Wilwoods, & many extras
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