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Old 12-10-2012, 01:08 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I got my kit Saturday and have one negative comment. The bolt which goes thru the pedal end is a fully threaded button head. It should have been a shoulder bolt, a bolt with an un-threaded portion where it goes thru the pedal. The threads introduce the potential for metal to metal wear at a critical point.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
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thanks I was more wondering about pedal swap than quadrant fix, that seems a more durable fix??
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:05 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Everson View Post
I have a customers car here now with a wilwood pedal box. It has under 2000 miles on it. The clutch pedal creaks and sticks so bad, its hard to modulate it. I know its only a matter of time before something fails. Not sure the brace will help because of all the side load on the pivot pin.
I am going to reccomend to him to convert to a hydraulic clutch. What a pain that will be on a finished car. This car has a removeable foot box cover, and it was still nearly impossible to work in there. Cant imagine trying to get that snap ring off when you cant see it.
Mike
My clutch pedal started creaking or squeaking after about 1000 miles. It sounded pretty bad and had me worried. I sprayed some lube on the pivot shaft and the noise went away. I didn't lube it when I put it together. I wonder if your customer lubed it during the build.

It appears to me the new part will remove the twisting action from the pedal and stop the pedal from breaking. It won't do much for the wear the pivot pin and mount that may occur over time. There really should be some bushings for this area. This best way to solve this problem is the hydraulic system as you suggested, but I'm going to try the Factory Five fix for now and keep the pin lubed.

Jeff
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:08 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d42davis View Post
I got my kit Saturday and have one negative comment. The bolt which goes thru the pedal end is a fully threaded button head. It should have been a shoulder bolt, a bolt with an un-threaded portion where it goes thru the pedal. The threads introduce the potential for metal to metal wear at a critical point.
DD
That was my first thought until I saw how the action works. Shoulder bolt would be better; however, the threaded bolt is not really a part of the action. It just keeps the clutch pedal in place. When you depress the pedal, all of the pressure is on the new piece and the threaded bolt has no pressure/stress on it.

But I agree that a shoulder bolt would be more logical.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Steak View Post
Just finished installing the "quadrant stabilizing" kit. Took about 2.5 hours including relocating my clutch safety switch. I did get lucky in that the snap ring on the quadrant shaft was missing - probably broke off, so I didn't have to fight getting it off. The new snap ring went on fairly easily once I positioned myself under the dash (at 66, that's a chore). Most of the work was done alone; however, having my son help hold wrenches in place helped and probably saved some time. The quadrant no longer is solidly attached to the top of the clutch pedal (previously a long bolt and spacer. The pedal pushes against the new bracket which is attached to the quadrant. This should help keep the pedal arm from twisting with any side load on the quadrant. Anyway, good luck to those who make the change. I think Mike Everson's opinion that the side load is still an issue is true; however, it should have no impact on the pedal. BUt it does raise questions about the pivot shaft. Haven't heard of any of those breaking, yet.

PM me if you have any questions or ask on the forum. I check it a couple of times a day.
Hi Chuck,

I have to do this also. How would you have gotten the snap ring off if it was not broken? I can't even see mine and I can remove the entire top of the foot box. I'm 66 and 6'3" and am not looking forward to doing this. Yes the body is on and completed! I can't drive it any more this year cause I'm in Pa so I think I'll wait and see how this fix works for those in the warmer states.

Thanks,

Jim in Pa
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok here is an interesting one. I just bought an unfinished MK4 and the pedals are the same as my MK3 that I just received the fix for. I called FFR to get the fix for the MK4 and they told me they are sending the fix out because 4 customers had their pedals break because of racing (stiff) clutches. They have or will send out 1500 kits before they are through. They said, "go to the previous owner to get him to forward it to me when he receives it"...

Maybe when I install the pedals I will post a pic of the completed fix.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I spoke with Mike (oxbow) who has had a broken clutch pedal. It was my understanding, in the past, that the pedal had broken below the fulcrum point on the pedal arm. I was mistaken, it broke between the two quadrant to pedal arm mounting points. I have corrected my above post and have added pictures of Mike's broken pedal arm here.





I now believe the FFR kit will have a positive effect on stabilizing both the quadrant and pedal arm. However, it will not help alleviate the problem that Mike Everson and others are having with binding.

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:27 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I thought I was ready for anything when I made my entire foot box top removable. At the time I thought I might someday need to change a clutch cable or master cylinder. From looking at the picture below I believe I can do either of those tasks without much trouble. Removing the clutch quadrant snap ring is something I didn't plan for and I'm not sure how I'm going to get there from the top with the brake lines and clutch switch in place. I looked at this for about 30 minutes tonight and decided I would sleep on it. My initial thoughts are to remove the clutch switch bracket and give it a try. The next idea is to remove the driver seat and try to get it from the bottom side. I'd like to hear how other people are doing this.

This is my access from the top.


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Old 12-12-2012, 02:19 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jims09build View Post
Hi Chuck,

I have to do this also. How would you have gotten the snap ring off if it was not broken? I can't even see mine and I can remove the entire top of the foot box. I'm 66 and 6'3" and am not looking forward to doing this. Yes the body is on and completed! I can't drive it any more this year cause I'm in Pa so I think I'll wait and see how this fix works for those in the warmer states.

Thanks,

Jim in Pa
a

Jim, not sure if this would work but a thin bladed putty knife between the protruding part of the ring (the two holes) might break it off. I'm 66 but only 5'9" and was able to lie on my back under the foot box and could almost see the snap ring. It helped having my son help me out of that position.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:22 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I did not have to remove the seat. It was tight but doable.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:26 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Silverstreak02 View Post
I thought I was ready for anything when I made my entire foot box top removable. At the time I thought I might someday need to change a clutch cable or master cylinder. From looking at the picture below I believe I can do either of those tasks without much trouble. Removing the clutch quadrant snap ring is something I didn't plan for and I'm not sure how I'm going to get there from the top with the brake lines and clutch switch in place. I looked at this for about 30 minutes tonight and decided I would sleep on it. My initial thoughts are to remove the clutch switch bracket and give it a try. The next idea is to remove the driver seat and try to get it from the bottom side. I'd like to hear how other people are doing this.

This is my access from the top.


Jeff
Jeff,
Try disconnecting the long bolt/spacer after getting the cable loose and then rotate the quadrant into a better position. Might get a hand closer to the pivot point and snap ring to use a blade. I came from the bottom so I can't be sure this will help.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:51 PM   #42 (permalink)
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So sounds like the FFR quandrant fix may be worth doing??? No one comented on swaping to forged pedals........ If that bolt doesn't make sense may order a shoulder bolt of equal or better grade
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:36 PM   #43 (permalink)
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there's a snap ring at each end of that pivot pin that the pedal hangs on-I found it easier to remove the ring on the right (PS) then push the pin out to the left (though it may hit the aluminum panel on the left side of the foot box on some roadsters oooppsss) it was close on mine-I did remove the seat and pull my steering wheel (removable) I bought a 90 degree clip removal tool at Napa to get the job done-it's a patience building job for sure. a small mirror and flash light help-I went with a hydraulic clutch after removing that POS quadrant-
good luck

Bob

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:51 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What Bobcat said....I did mine the same way. Snap ring was simple, removing that upper bolt is the "B---h"! Once the upper bolt is loose and the snap ring is off, the peddle and quadrant will fall down! Good luck, but the guaranteed solution is hydraulic!
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:54 PM   #45 (permalink)
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After such an easy install of the fix, I now found out why the snap ring was not there. After installing the fix and snap ring, it popped off. It appears that as the quadrant wears and the pivot hole in particular, the side movement may pop the ring off. Either that or I didn't have it on all the way. I'll try again and repost.

The original instructions show a thin washer between the quadrant and foot box and not between the snap ring and the quadrant. It seems the/a washer should go between the quadrant and snap ring to give more surface area to hold the ring in place. Comments???
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Clutch pedal

I also removed the snap ring from the PS, quadrant and shaft came out on the DS. The clutch pedal will drop but I wanted to check it for stress cracks anyway.Everything looked fine no wear or cracks on cross shaft or clutch pedal.Used snap ring tool with 90* pins to put snap ring on both ends of cross shaft.My car (6958) had 2500 miles on the clutch pedal, and the clutch pedal has always worked smooth. After installing the new quadrant retrofit kit everything still feels fine,took about 3 hours of labor.The car has foot box inspection cover and removable steering wheel which made things easier to do.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:41 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Rick,
Where was your thin washer on the quadrant side against the snap ring or between the quadrant and foot box.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:10 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Pedal assembly alignment

The issue gets more involved. It appears from the wear on the left side (DS) of the groove on the quadrant and the fact that the cable is almost rubbing the left side (DS) of the adjuster "tube", that my pedals are not aligned. This may be causing the pressure on the snap ring.

Proposed solution: remove the four bolts (3 button head and one hex) holding the pedals to the mounting bracket and elongate the holes so that the pedal assembly may be slightly rotated/moved to get better alignment.

Has anyone seen this? Poor alignment also adds stress to the quadrant assembly.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:50 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Thanks for the advice on quadrant fix, any experience or comments with changing out to forged pedals??? or is this a big deal and have to pull out entire pedal box????
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:40 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Ok so nobody has swapped pedals???????
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:20 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I just finished the fix on my MK4 and installed the pedal box. Those who have completed this fix, does it limit the clutch movement more than before the fix? It looks like the clutch limits are tighter and the stop FFR provides (the bolt through the bracket) is not needed anymore. I had to file the aluminum piece down a bit because I couldn't get the clutch screw started. Anyone else have that problem?



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Old 12-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I argued with FFR for a week when my pedal broke this summer. They swore it was not a known issue, even though I sent them three links to Forum threads detailing the failure. Willwood even acknowledged the problem. I ended up giving up on FFR and purchased new forged pedals directly from Willwood. This development really chaps my ass. Generally happy with FFR, but when they suck - it's not just a little bit.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Sorry, forgot to answer question on replacing the pedal. I only replaced the clutch pedal. It took a couple hours, not including making a access cover, after I cut the hole in the foot box. It was a PIA and required a second set of hands, but not unmanageable. I started to get into the brake pedal, but it looked like a significant chore. I ended up leaving the brake pedal, but I cut and drilled it to accept the bolt on pedal to match.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
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this clutch fix does not fix the problem, the pressure is still where the arrows pointed. When you have a stiff clutch, like i do, there is alot of sideways pressure applied to the top of the peddle arm and thats a problem! In my opinion, all this fix does is go from 1 long bolt to 3 shorter bolts. It does'nt lessen the twisting force applied to the top of the peddle, which is THE problem!
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:52 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I think I will install forged pedal, can I also do the quadrant fix with this???? overkill????
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:36 PM   #56 (permalink)
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It has been noted by FFR that they have seen two breaks in the newer Wilwood pedals when using a racing clutch.

I would do both, the pedal and quadrant.

George
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I think I will install forged pedal, can I also do the quadrant fix with this???? overkill????
Sorry to be an ass, but I would do neither. Instead I would switch to a hydraulic system.

Long time regulars will detect that I'm beginning to sound like Dukegrad did relative to 4.6 oil pans!
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:03 PM   #58 (permalink)
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this clutch fix does not fix the problem, the pressure is still where the arrows pointed. When you have a stiff clutch, like i do, there is alot of sideways pressure applied to the top of the peddle arm and thats a problem! In my opinion, all this fix does is go from 1 long bolt to 3 shorter bolts. It does'nt lessen the twisting force applied to the top of the peddle, which is THE problem!
Because the pedal is not rigidly bolted to the flat piece, I'm pretty sure that this design has less torque being transmitted to the pedal than before. But because fundamentally the locations of "load" and "effort" forces remain the same, there is still the substantially same torque being generated that now is reacted someplace else. I suspect the torque reaction is now all concentrated at the pivot point of the quadrant. This can't be good for long term wear at that point.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:13 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I still don't know why people are trying to make the piss poor geometry of the clutch pedal hack work. A hydraulic clutch is cheap, easy, and works like butter. And the pedal box was designed for it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #60 (permalink)
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like Darren says- now I spend my time thinking of cool upgrades for my snake since my hydraulic clutch is trouble free-soooo nice when ya don't have to worry about breaking pedals and snapping cables-not so nice when ya can't trust the car to get you home!

Bob
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