Is it just my perception or have FFR builds been setting the bar higher lately?

[CCRsAC]

I've been on this site for nearly ten years and actively building my car for the last three. During that time, there seems to have been an ever increasing level of quality in both the design and execution, perhaps based on the fact that each of us tend to build upon the ideas of those who came before us. From John O's various iterations (not the least of which was his recent completion of "the First FFR Slabside"), to the incorporation of MetalMorphous finishes, to flip noses, an increase in period correct mods, to some of the modern takes on the classic original. There just seems to be a wealth of high-level cars to follow here and at other sites, as well as showing up at car shows. I know that some of this has to do with these cars evolving from donor builds to non-donor, but there are truly some wonderful donor builds out there, so that can't explain it fully.

What are your thoughts and observations?

[Fluge]

I noticed the same thing with the coupes...bar is definitely getting higher.

Marc

[SeanHM]

I think you're right. I bet if you look at the graduation threads from a few years ago compared to know you'd come to the same conclusion. I think a lot of credit goes to this site, the members and the suppliers.

[MPTech]

Agreed, I think FFR is doing a better job of reducing back-orders, improving design (mk4), and addressing quality issues that used to exist.
Without those issues to deal with, builders can spend more time (and money) on modifying their builds.

[emac]

My own personal experience. Years ago I came across a kit car that was for sale. I looked at it and thought, what a piece of junk.

About two years ago I noticed the local tech school did a ffr car and auctioned it off. It looked very nice. So, I got on the internet, came across this site, saw some builds and ordered one. This aint the kit car I recall from years ago!

ernest

[Cone Basher]

I agree with you guys. I got my Coupe kit in 03 and the newer bodies have much better fit and finish on them. This site helped me with almost every step in my build and I made several changes and upgrades I would not have known about If I had not discovered this forum. I think credit also has to be extended to the forum vendors who keep developing new parts to improve the performane and apperance of these cars.
Kudos to all parties involved:
CB

[mg2]

I have a strict budget Im going semi donor build. It might not look as nice as some or have as much HP. but it will be mine and I can say I built it.

[dallas_]

I do know that seeing what other guys have done, and how they have done it, certainly gave us the ideas and confidence that we could make similar modifications.

x2 that the talent on this forum and the quality of vendor parts and knowledge really does help 'raise the bar' for sure.

[h82crash]

Yep, getting better all the time. I think our cars are definitely something to be proud of.

Originally Posted by mg2

I have a strict budget Im going semi donor build. It might not look as nice as some or have as much HP. but it will be mine and I can say I built it.

Don't sell yourself short. Take your time, and ask for help when you need it. Even on a strict budget, you'll get it looking very nice. As Michael Everson said on another thread, "I've said it before and will say it again.. The most enjoyable cars are the ones with the stock drivetrain. 225 horse, no drive ability issues, and a smooth shifting T5. 500 horse is a waste of time and money."

BTW, 4 month lead time, wow.

[Erik W. Treves]

Originally Posted by h82crash

As Michael Everson said on another thread, "I've said it before and will say it again.. The most enjoyable cars are the ones with the stock drivetrain. 225 horse, no drive ability issues, and a smooth shifting T5. 500 horse is a waste of time and money."

.

but they are fun

[Cone Basher]

mg2: Nothing wrong with a semi donor build, that's the concept that started FFR. You have got a fun car to drive and like you say you built it, that's what I'm most proud of when I talk to someone about my car. You can make all kinds of changes to your car over the years that's the great thing about the original FFR concept. I have seen FFRs at Auto-x events with a donor 302, stock mustang wheels that are satin black with exposed aluminum cockpits that are very fast. Pretty is as pretty does as the old saying goes.
CB

[samadhi]

There is some return on investment by making your car 'better', it's a definite in the Canadian market.

The 10k I put into the engine will boost my cars value on resale.

I hear what Everson says about 500 hp being a waste, but I'm not seeing car companies pick up on it, and I anxiously await a 225 hp affordable Lamborghini!

[h82crash]

Originally Posted by samadhi

I anxiously await a 225 hp affordable Lamborghini!

There are several Lambo kits available.

Er, even if Lamborghini made 100 hp car it would not be affordable.

[2FAST4U]

Originally Posted by h82crash

Yep, getting better all the time. I think our cars are definitely something to be proud of.

I agree!

[samadhi]

"If y'all can't make the mercy 3 body fit y'all just has to hammer away at it"
Kitcarinc

Sadly all my money is tied up with factory five right now.

[mg2]

My budget took a big hit when the wife was hospitalzed earlier this year and know she is off work for another 3 months. So my goal is to stay under 25k and to up grade at a later date.

[samadhi]

There are some beautiful builds out there and I thank every contributor for posting the pictures which allow me to see what can be done.

I'm 10k over budget already, if I went 100k more my car would never be as nice as some I've seen on here. I simply don't have the skill.

To those of you on here that are magician's at making these cars perfect, thanks, and keep it up!

Vic

[KC Wildcat]

I agree 100%. I think there are a number of factors

- FFR is building a better product for a starting point

- Many former modifications have been incorporated in the kit

- The complete kit and fact that with donors getting older, I think there is a shift to complete or higher end base with new parts

- A lot of modifications have matured. They have been done numerous times and are well documented. People see this and are confident to try it. For example, building a rear shelf does not seem as daunting a task now. There are plenty of examples.

So less time, energy, and money goes into general body work, hidden body mounts, rolled edges, etc. That money goes into upgrading parts, doing other modifications.

[Wayne Presley]

My first car was finished in 1997 and it won plenty of awards. I judged at Knott's and the FFR Nationals for the next 6-7 years and by year three it would have just been glanced at. Russ Thompson's roadster was the first bar raiser, the first year I took the Grape Ape to Knott's I was so proud of my car. Until I saw the Radio Flyer. Talk about getting the rug pulled out from underneath you, that car was awesome. Olli Hempel's roadster had a restomod feel with a painted engine compartment with everything very smoothed, the paint job was incredible (he painted it himself) Sunset Orange with Black Ice stripes with ice pearl. Russ then built his coupe which was a magnitude better than the Radio Flyer. About the same time at the 2005 FFR Nats, Garage Freaks FFR blew everyone away and won Best in Show (search for pics). I'm just glad they were not both at the Nats as it would have been nearly impossible to pick one over the other. 5 years later at the Turkey Rod Run, GF didn't win any in the FFR awards.
The bar is a moving target and you really do have to go out of the box to make them better than the last generation.

[tirod]

With a view of the car being a dynamic package, things have gotten a lot better, too.

The talk so far has been a bit vague, but centered on car show trophy winners. Paint, rolled edges, and underhood bling don't necessarily constitute "high level," just high eye candy appeal. And that market does have money to spend, which is where we do see a lot of activity.

On the other hand, the mechanical attributes of the car itself are improving, as the industry offers newer factory options to the builder/owner. Whether you agree or not, power steering, power brakes, balanced brakes with the correct bias, clutches, transmissions, shocks, spindles, spring rates, bump steer, and a lot of other issues are getting addressed. It's no longer "donor level and live with it."

Engines, too. The average guy can afford a stroker motor putting out 450 hp reliably. Use donor pulleys and valve covers, install normal hosing, and costs can be substantially trimmed. It may not have the bling factor of a show motor, but it can do the job. It's a matter of understanding the tradeoffs, which are usually biased toward factory parts. They have done an excellent job of providing year round performance under extreme conditions, something the distinctly limited race car parts are famously inadequate at doing. Think 150,000 mile longevity.

It's very much unfortunate the show cars don't get track time, tho, to proof the huge expense actually benefits a future owner. Much like a Rolex, those cars are built for status - the performance can be easily matched in commodity priced goods.

Which makes building a supercar for the average man attainable, a great deal of improvement, indeed.

[AC Bill]

The modifications, improvements, and inventiveness, of builders on this forum over the last few years, has really helped new builders cars evolve into something extra special. Unfortunately, it also means in most cases it costs a lot more to build them.

Fortunately, a fellow on a budget can still build a car, that can look great, and be an absolute thrill to drive. Might not win Best in Show trophy's at a car show, but then that was not the original concept of the Smith Brothers..Their original idea was of building an "affordable performance car". Adapting their kits to be able to use the later model Mustang donor parts, is a good indication this concept is still important to FFR... Kudo's to them for this!

[SeanHM]

I think another thing is that while this site is notorious for spending your money for you, it is also excellent at helping you spend it wisely. This is without a doubt the most informative and reliable forum I've found and that helps people not waste money and thus build a better car for equivalent money.

[brian1967]

Originally Posted by mg2

My budget took a big hit when the wife was hospitalzed earlier this year and know she is off work for another 3 months. So my goal is to stay under 25k and to up grade at a later date.

Kind of off topic, but I hope all is well with your wife.

[mildlyamused]

The bottom line is this gang....INTERNET FRIENDSHIPS!!!!

I know two things for sure- I had never been on a forum before I started this en devour over a year ago and 2nd, I have had many a question answered from people on this site!

Guys like SharkX, MG2 and especially CCRsAC have made my build experience as fun as anything I have ever done. Cept' ovcourse maybe makin' my kids! Did I just say that?

People take a lot of pride in there work when it comes to this stuff, and yeah- I think people "quietly" wanna out do what they have seen before.

That being said, it simply increases the value of all of our cars!!!!

Great work out there and thanks to everyone!

[ddv005]

Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves

but they are fun

Hold on to your hats guys, i have a good friend that is completing a coupe build with a
413 CI Dart Block, and a 88mm T6 Frame turbo, well over 1000 RWHP and crazy customization, best of all he did most of the stuff himself. Its amazing how much these
cars motivate people. Previously this guys would not even change a tire. With this car he
is even doing body work!!!!!!!!!!

There are definitely folks taking it to the next level.

[MPTech]

good point ddv005

I think the forum encourages builders to step outside of their comfort zone and try things they wouldn't have considered if they were working in isolation. I'm amazed at the builds that guys did before this forum existed, I know I wouldn't have attempted it. But after seeing some of the mods, I know my personal bar has been raised since originally considering the by-the-book build, then developing my Build Plan, and new things I've learned even since then.

(I'm trying to convince Rish GRSC that he NEEDS that cool flip front!! I think I almost have him ready to cut his roadster! )

[Terrorist Hunter]

I'll throw out the economy may even be helping some people. The slower pace to wait and buy parts is letting guys focus on craftsmanship. I know there are a few odds and ends I have spent time waiting on. It allowed me to focus on cleaning up wiring, mounting things perfectly, etc. Things that may have been slightly more rushed were given a bit more detail. If you're doing a donor build...all the more power and reason to slow down and only do it once!

[BigLeo69]

Originally Posted by MPTech

good point ddv005

I think the forum encourages builders to step outside of their comfort zone and try things they wouldn't have considered if they were working in isolation. I'm amazed at the builds that guys did before this forum existed, I know I wouldn't have attempted it. But after seeing some of the mods, I know my personal bar has been raised since originally considering the by-the-book build, then developing my Build Plan, and new things I've learned even since then.

(I'm trying to convince Rish GRSC that he NEEDS that cool flip front!! I think I almost have him ready to cut his roadster! )

I JUST POSTED A SAWZALL ON CRAIGSLIST

[raceral]

Not many people here now that would remember my battles on CC. Some of the guys would dog the crap out of FFR and I would just post and post pictures of great builds... they now have respect for FFR. Yes the builds since around 2002 have been over the top.

[CCRsAC]

Originally Posted by raceral

Not many people here now that would remember my battles on CC. Some of the guys would dog the crap out of FFR and I would just post and post pictures of great builds... they now have respect for FFR. Yes the builds since around 2002 have been over the top.

Al,

That's one of the things that prompted my original comment... I've been reading some of the CC posts from back in the days of the early 2000s and they're quite entertaining when it comes to FFR bashing.