Time for new tires on the roadster and I'm thinking of going with DOT approved race tires full time and was wondering if anyone else has any experiance? I'm currently running BFG T/A Radials and can break them loose in 3rd if I'm not carefull. Scary as hell. I'd really like to be able to use full throttle without any drama and believe a soft, grippy, race tire will do the trick. Running a built 347 that dynoed at 473 HP.
I've been running DR's on my '68' Camaro for years and love them. But, I also feel that the BFG's are a bit of a safety net as they keep the speeds and throttle application down by breaking traction easily at lower speeds. It's fun going sideways but not fast. My concern is that the sticky tires will allow for much more aggressive cornering and throttle application but that when they DO get loose, it will be at higher speeds and more dangerous.
So every time I take my spec racer out on the "street" I change to road tire, why because my DOT race tires collect way too much road crap and make it very dangerous to drive with them on the street, the track is a much cleaner (far from perfect but better than the street) environment.
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But, I also feel that the BFG's are a bit of a safety net as they keep the speeds and throttle application down by breaking traction easily at lower speeds. It's fun going sideways but not fast. My concern is that the sticky tires will allow for much more aggressive cornering and throttle application but that when they DO get loose, it will be at higher speeds and more dangerous.
Exactly, when a race tire goes it can go quick with little or no warning and you may spin atleast 180 deg. I have both a used set of R1's and a set of Sumi's. I prefer the Sumi's for spirited driving very predictable when they break free. Right now since the R1's have seen better days (I am the thrid owner) I am just driving on them daily. They can be more fun in twisty roads but, I have a pretty good feel for their limits due to my AutoXing regularly.
Honestly if you want to use third gear, get another set of rims and tires and go to the track. 2nd to a little bit of 3rd is already 60 mph plus in my car, you shouldn't be hammering 3rd on the street that would be pushing maybe 80+???
I have been running auto-x events for years and have seen a number of guys run Kuhmo tires to and from an event, they are not true slicks which have only two groves around the tire. These have a definite tread pattern and look like a shaved tire, reasonably safe as a road tire when it rains if you can see the texture of the road but not safe when the road is covered with water. They are not really sticky until they get warm which usually takes two of three Auto-x runs, nothing like a Hoozier A6 which I now have on my Coupe. I ran the Kuhmo Victor racers for my first set of tires and they took some runs before they would bite well. The Hoosiers pick up all kinds of small bits of grit etc. even when cold.
Lots of options out there but this has been my experience. You are not going to get a lot of street miles from these tires but if you only run 4 to 500 mi a year these might work for you.
Go to the Tire rack web site and look.
I'm currently running BFG T/A Radials and can break them loose in 3rd if I'm not carefull.
The BFG radials are not what I consider a sticky tire. They are mostly built for the essentially stock '78 Camaro crowd, who want a good looking tire with a fast reputation. They last a long time for a good reason.
Overlook the racing tire for all the reasons mentioned above, plus a couple more. Get a good sticky street tire that can handle a little rain once in a while. I have Nitto 555R's, and I like them. I drive my car year round, in all kinds of weather. Others use Sumitomo for a relativly inexpensive tire. If you have the money, look at a Pirelli Pilot Sport or Goodyear Eagle GT.
15" MT/ETs here for yr. round driving with my 347. Coming up on 7500 mi. so far. Yes they pick-up rocks, ect, but they really hook-up when they need to. Are there better tires , sure, but $$$. Do yourself a favor, and get rid of the BFG T/As!!!! Ask me how I know---
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I use the nitto 555r like the other Bob but only on the rear . Great dry , so so wet , forget about it less than 32F . Mine came with a big warning sticker , no cold weather . no grip at all until over 50f . I have sumi's for really cold , like the Nitto better all other times . I'm a wuss only drive wet when caught in it , and rarely in the cold unless sunny out and I'm not at work .. Bob oh yeah radial ta not even speed rated
FFR5020 MK III Whitby body +paint, sai mod, Tremec,408, Cobra/Oben brakes , Halibrands, mass flo , gas n pipes, levy rad team3 spinners.Fortes driveshaft, pulleys ,and quick release steering
I've run the Kumho V700's as a full time tire and they pick up EVERYTHING off the road. I'd go with the Kumho Ecsta XS's as they have nearly the grip of the DOT race tires, can be driven in the wet and available in the correct sizes. I drove the Elise in the rain with the DOT race tires, not fun in the least.
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Good advice above. Most real sticky track tires need more heat than you'll create on the street. Lots of daily drivers on Drag radials, but (someone chime in) I believe the straight line grip is good, but I think they give up some lateral grip. That may vary by manufacturer. Track rubber also costs more and wear faster.
15 inch Goodyear Blue Streaks (Billboards) race tires, not DOT but they are the racing rain tire. I have not been in the rain with them so no comment on that. Yea they throw stones but the stones bounce off the clear stone guard film on the rear fenders. I also have a 347 that was dynoed at 360hp at the rear wheels ~= 426 bhp. The car scaled out at 2,270 lbs with Ĺ tank of fuel. The car is a hoot to drive. Fast but predictableÖwith 3.73 gears, aluminum flywheel, al. drive shaft the Rís come fast and I haze the tires but the car stays strait or in my line. Iím feel the Detroit TrueTrac has a lot to do with the handling as does the SIA mod and the tuned AGR power steering rack. My passengers do say itís scary fast but from my perspective the car has excellent street manors. It will wag the tail a little but I have never felt out of control; Even when I kicked that blown Firebirds ass.
Speed M, I canít imagine driving with any less of a tire.
Judged Best In Class; Production Road Racer at World Of Wheels Chicago 2013. Ford BOSS 347 short block, Dart Al heads.. 360 RWHP, T-5 Z, IRS W/ Detroit Truetrac & 3.73s, SN95 spindles 99 PBR brakes, AGR Power Steering, and a Load of engineering changes. Graduation Post #22 http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...fr-5773-a.html
I run NT01's on all 4 corners..and have driven from Huntsville to LCS and back in them...yes they wear out a little quicker...mainly the rears...Not sure I will ever run a different tire on my car...if I decide to then I would probably run some Kumho Ecsta XS's
BFG's as safety net? I think they are very dangerous on a high hp Cobra. I run the Kumho's up front and Nitto Drag radials (NT05R) on the rear. 99.9% street driving although I avoid any driving on wet roads. Cheers.
Kumho XSs have a real good rep as a near dot tire but w/ full tread. Another option might be Toyo R888s which are about 97% of a A6. But they come w/ only 6/32 of tread. I drive abck and forth to autocrosses on my A6s. They are OK but I don't really enjoy them on the street. The sling gravel like crazy and the square tread edges cauase them to tramline a lot more than my street Sumis. The sumis are so cheap, that you could get a set of Bullets from American Muscle and have two sets of tires/wheels. TheA6s are about $1300 a set and the R888s are approx $1000 a set and Sumis a lot less.
FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
Thanks guys. All good input and appreciated from those that have already been down this road. Think I'm leaning towards a high quality front tire and DR's on the back like I run on my Camaro. I live in South Florida and there isn't a corner for miles that isn't either an on or off ramp and I NEVER drive the roadster in the rain unless it's by accident. I think the DR's will give me what I'm looking for, straight line traction more than cornering ability.
By the way, my car is a MK I completed just over ten years ago and driven just under 20,000 miles. Most reliable and fun, "Hot Rod", I've ever owned and I've had a bunch. The 347 is my third engine in this car. First donor engine threw two rods through the pan on a missed shift. (forgot the chip in the MSD). Second engine didn't make enough power so it got pulled and sent to Keith Kraft Racing Engines for the 347 build. Will probably own this one till I'm too old to drive it.
I would run a good dry pavement street tire. That should have enough traction. DRs lack sidewall stiffness, so handling wont be as good. DOT race tires are great when they're hot, also pick up everything and fling it into your paint job. If it dips below 60, I think the street tires initially have more traction. I've spun the tires at 100mph on the track, you just have to ease the gas more until it bites.
FFR3842, Levy Forged 349ci/500hp, AFR185's, Wilwood 6/4 piston Superlites, Koni DAs, Magnesium bellhousing and Tilton Triple disk clutch, GF5R dog ringed 5 speed, 3link, VPM sway bars, Hoosier A6s, CCW forged wheels, wings, undertray, diffuser
Not that we need anymore reasons for our local law enforcement officials to give us grief if you are pulled over but even though they looked great My Blue Streak billboards got me in trouble all due to me but one more thing on the list.
If you're looking for straight line traction you probably won't be happy with the Kumho XS's they were a great cornering tire but I was never impressed with their straight line hookup. On a mk1 you're limited by size and can't really comfortably run more than a 285 on the rear unless you've done the frame mods. I used MT drag radials for a while was really impressed with how quick the car accelerated though the one time I autox'd with them I wasn't really that impressed (still have them if you're looking for a used set) The only thing I noticed was the car was a little twitchy with nitto 555's on the front and the MT's in back but that may have been from my autox focused alighment spec's
Right now I'm running Toyo R1R's and am quite impressed with the overall street manners along with great autox performance. They are a great florida tire seeing that you don't have to worry about cracking if it gets below 15* F
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I have driven on the street with V710's and A6's on my Mustang. They both pull the wheel terribly following grooves. If they are not to hot, you can fry them through the gears too.
Keep in mind that while they are DOT tires, many of them state on the sidewall "not for highway use" and therefore are not street legal. Even if they don't make that statement on the sidewall, they are only street legal for about a week. The tread reaches the wear bars almost instantly, making them illegal. IMHO, it's not worth the risk of being pulled over.
I have also had the terrible misfortune of having them on my car when a freak storm hit and it was pouring rain. I was lucky to make it home without totalling my car.
4 FFR builds to date. Maybe the next one'll be mine.
I also run the 710's on the track, and looking at the Hankooks for next season. But these are track only, and I run a separate rim & tire for the street. I am in scarier water than you, as I am still using the 15" PSE rims and Yokohama tires that are hard and have NO traction!
Fina a nice 17" Hi=Perf tire, and you'll be happy.
FFR5148K MkII Roadster, FRP 306 345HP w/ carb, 3-link, disc brakes, Still Gel-Coat Grey! Now with roll cage and more track stuff, wrecked, beaten, man-handled, cut up, butchered, Freaky body mods, sat on by HOOTERS girls, still barely street legal.
Two other thoughts.
1- if you get real good hookup w/ your rear tires, is the suspension going to be OK. If you have 4 link as did most MkIs it will probably be OK.
2- be careful about drag radials on the rear (lot's of traction) and regular tires on the front(less traction) and the effect on braking. The last thing most FFRs need is less front traction as they usually have too much front brake.
FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
Not to hi-jack the thread, but I have also been thinking of a new set of tires. I currently have the Goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3's on all four corners. I can, as said, break them loose going into third...and really have yet to beable to actually floor the throttle on the new motor. Throttle control is a must.
Are the Ecsta XS's a better tire than the Goodyears? For both straight line and a autox'er from time to time? Was leery on the race tires for road use due to the temp issues. Roads in WI can change temps on a whim...
Some very high end sports cars run pilot sport cups, although I think the porsche ones are a different version. PSCs are street legal and have treads. they won't last a long time on the road, but they won't melt all over the gravel.
Tread isn't deep, so watch the rain.
They'll be banana peels on grease if the road is anywhere near freezing.
And, as people said, safety margins are way down.
High-tread tires like Toyo R1s or anything resembling a rain tire will just chunk under acceleration.
Type 65 coupe track/race-only non-donor in progress. Pics
I run Nitto NT-01's on my coupe. I drive the thing to track, cruise nights, even on a Cobra Club run in the rocky mountains last summer. Definately do not recommend them for rain use (that's a whole 'nother story) but they are fine albiet a bit noisy on the street.
There are some great Street/DOT-R tires out there that still have some street ability in them, even in the rain. These are the ones that have a full tread, and not just a rain grove. The compromise will be they wear VERY fast.
Some on that list include:
Dunlop Spec Stars
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
Yokohama ADVAN A048
FFR Challenge #43
2012 NASA SE Champion
2011 NASA SE Champion Race Team
I'm another that runs Nitto NT-01's all year. I don't drive much in the rain so I don't care much about wet traction. Despite what people say, even in the cold the NT-01 has more grip than any other tire I have put on my roadster.
If I decide to start driving it in the wet, I would need a roof, better windshield wipers and would probably switch to NT-555s for the better wet grip.
I've run the Goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3's on the street and where happy with them until they got hard with age.
I ran the Kumho V710's on the track and really liked them but I'd never use them on the street (no tread). The last track outing I switched to the Nitto NT01's. I have a couple of friends that have used them on both street and track. On the track Kumho's hold better but when they let go, they let go. The NT01's let go a little sooner than the V710's but they do so a little more gradually, giving you a bit of warning. The NT01's give me more heat cycles than the V710's and are a little less expensive. I turn better times with the V710's but the NT01's are easier on the pocketbook.
Now that my Goodyear's are old and hard I'll probably remount my NT01's to my street rims.
Doug Rosier FFR #4737. IRS, Dual Roll Bars, 427w, TKO, Wilwood Brakes, Mass-Flo Fuel Injection, Bullit Wheels, a Bimini Top and Plenty of Fun!
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