Power Steering Rack

[Bob Cowan]

I'm thinking about adding power steering this winter. The car drives great with out it. But after a track week end I'm pretty beat. Especially on a short course like PPIR - about 1300 turns per week end. Today my neck and shoulders hurt, and I have a migrain.

I plan on using a KRC pump, as I don't want to have problems with a stock pump in a racing environment.

But shopping for rack and pinion units brings up a question.

This stock replacement rack fits a 97 Mustang Cobra - quick ratio, easy drop in installation. $188
Duralast/Rack & Pinion (64124) | 1998 Ford Mustang Cobra 8 Cylinders V 4.6L SFI | AutoZone.com

Brand new from a Ford dealer, $300

This is also a drop in replacement, from Flaming River. $1,000! Why is this one so much more expensive? I realize it's all new, and not rebuilt. But why so much money? Is it worth it?
1979-93 Mustang Power Rack Kit - FR40002KT - 583 - 5456

[Jack Wojack]

I went with a P/S pump and a rack from AGR in Texas and couldn't be happier with the performance. AGR tunes the rack specifically for these light 90 inch wheelbase cars. They don't just restrict the flow or pressure of the fluid with an orifice but they change the internal torsion bar valve in the rack.

I have power assist in the parking lot and at low speeds and yet at 80 mph the car has a very firm feeling with no darting around. The car has that firm European Grand Touring car feeling that I like.

I did have to send mine back to them because it was weeping fluid but they did take care of it and it has been trouble free for 1,800 miles.

Jack

[Bob Cowan]

AGR looks like they have some pretty good stuff at reasonable prices. I like the look of their racing pumps. Looks to be an upgraded version of a standard chevy pump? I like the remote resevoir, too. That might work better for my application.

What mounting bracket did you use? I would like to m,ount it low on the driver's side. The AGR web site doesn't list anything. But I found this one at Summit Racing: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRG-802409/

Did you install a cooler?

[JKleiner]

Wow Bob! I never thought I'd see the day---welcome to the dark side

Question though. Why the '97 rack...

Originally Posted by Bob Cowan

This stock replacement rack fits a 97 Mustang Cobra - quick ratio, easy drop in installation. $188
Duralast/Rack & Pinion (64124) | 1998 Ford Mustang Cobra 8 Cylinders V 4.6L SFI | AutoZone.com

...rather than a less expensive Fox body one:

Rack & Pinion | 1990 Ford Mustang 8 Cylinders E 5.0L FI HP | AutoZone.com

Although it's not a major task I think you'll have to cut the inner tie rods with the later unit. With the Fox body rack simply choose your ratio, change out the lower joint on the steering shaft and bolt it in.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

Wow Bob! I never thought I'd see the day---welcome to the dark side

Question though. Why the '97 rack...



...rather than a less expensive Fox body one:

Rack & Pinion | 1990 Ford Mustang 8 Cylinders E 5.0L FI HP | AutoZone.com

Although it's not a major task I think you'll have to cut the inner tie rods with the later unit. With the Fox body rack simply choose your ratio, change out the lower joint on the steering shaft and bolt it in.

Cheers,
Jeff

Yeah, I'm getting old. I'v put thousands of street miles on this car in the last 6-8 months. Never once did I wish for P/S. But, after a track week end, I'm really thinking about it. I'm pretty sore today.

I don't expect P/S to make me faster. In fact, I would expect it to slow me down a tad. More weight, less available HP.

The '97 Cobra rack supposedly has a slightly quicker ratio than the standard Fox body rack.

Installation of the rack shouldn't be that big of a deal. FFR did a nice job of designing the chassis to accept a standard Ford rack. So, pretty much any rack will bolt in with the standard procedure.

Flaming River makes a rack that can be custom built with whatever specs you want. The thought of eliminating bump steer with a custom built rack sounds like a good idea. But not at $1K just for the basic rack. I can install an entire AGR system for about that much money.

Mounting the pump will be a little bit of a challenge. Other than the one listed above, I have not seen an off the shelf bracket that will work. I have a couple of other thing's mounted in that area, so I'll need to fab some new brackets for those parts.

[65 Cobra Dude]

Bob,

Have you looked at Fast Freddies electric hydraulic set up? I don't have first hand experience with it but am contemplating it.

Henry

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by 65 Cobra Dude

Bob,

Have you looked at Fast Freddies electric hydraulic set up? I don't have first hand experience with it but am contemplating it.

Henry

Yeah, I'v looked at that - I think it's cost prohibative, though. But still considering it!

[Jack Wojack]

I used the KRC mounting bracket.

This is an older pic...I got rid of the plastic recirculating tank.



Jack

[DAVE LITHWAY]

I used an Autozone regbuilt Mustang unit for a little over $100.00. They have several ratios available and normally in stock. Not much that can go wrong with these units and the one that I bought makes slow speed drivng and parking a pleasure. I used a Saginaw pump from March Performance.

Dave

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by Bob Cowan

I'v put thousands of street miles on this car in the last 6-8 months. Never once did I wish for P/S. But, after a track week end, I'm really thinking about it. I'm pretty sore today.

Agreed Bob! It's not the street that that gets you, it's the high effort required at speed on track and the quick turns of autocrossing where power shines. So many guys join in the debate of power or non with only street use as their benchmark---if all I did was cruise on the street I'm sure I could do without it too. I've said before that I think power assist makes the car much easier to really hustle.

Originally Posted by Bob Cowan

The '97 Cobra rack supposedly has a slightly quicker ratio than the standard Fox body rack

The '97 rack you mentioned is 2.4 turns lock to lock. The various Fox racks are 3.0 turns (#6406), 2.5 turns (#6439) and the quickest with 2.25 turns (#64163). I run the 2.25 turn version and use a Heidt's valve to back the boost down on the street because in that situation I like having the extra resistance on the wheel. On track and for autocross I adjust it to run full assist.

Oh, by the way, the '97 rack is 48+ inches wide vs. 45 for the Fox unit.

Jeff

[Mark Reynolds]

Here are some power steering parts from Breeze, a Forum Vendor:

Breeze Automotive Factory Five Racing

Low on driver side need to have other than mechanical pump to avoid interference.

If integral reservoir can't use on Mk3 - up on 351 block due to prox. of steering shaft.

Otherwise you are good to go.

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

Agreed Bob! It's not the street that that gets you, it's the high effort required at speed on track and the quick turns of autocrossing where power shines. So many guys join in the debate of power or non with only street use as their benchmark---if all I did was cruise on the street I'm sure I could do without it too. I've said before that I think power assist makes the car much easier to really hustle.



The '97 rack you mentioned is 2.4 turns lock to lock. The various Fox racks are 3.0 turns (#6406), 2.5 turns (#6439) and the quickest with 2.25 turns (#64163). I run the 2.25 turn version and use a Heidt's valve to back the boost down on the street because in that situation I like having the extra resistance on the wheel. On track and for autocross I adjust it to run full assist.

Oh, by the way, the '97 rack is 48+ inches wide vs. 45 for the Fox unit.

Jeff

For the last 7 years on the track and street, I thought manual steering was just fine. It's less weight, no fluids to leak, and no engine power needed. But, I'm getting older, and starting to feel it.

48+ inches. Hmm. That could be a problem. I'm still using Fox spindles, and can't really afford to change them and the front brakes right now. Not enough budget for everything.

If the rack is 3+ inches wider, and I use tie rod spacers to improve bump steer, I could run out of threads on the shaft. I'll have to do some very careful measuring before I spend money.

Jeff, how long have you been running your set up? Any problems? Anything you think you should have done different? I don't want to spend money on parts that can't handle the rigors of racing.

[CraigS]

The last autocross I got a little behind on my steering-no biggy as no one would notice it except me- but decided to finally upgrade from my Breeze 3.0 rack to the Autozone 6439 at 2.5 turns. Just got an email today saying it shipped. i hope to get it in by this Sat and the next autocross. I know track stuff is different, and I have driven my car for a couple of weeks on the street w/ a 3.0 turns manual rack, but I think PS is a necessity. If nothing else it makes a quick correction for a loose tail wagging a lot faster.

[BOB SCHAEFER]

Bob,

I just used new (rebuilt) parts from Schucks O'Rilley for next to nothing and they have worked flawessly for 8K mile, no leaks. I know I don't compete like you but why not consider it? I'm remembering less than $200.

Good luck

Bob

That's Checker in Colorado...I'm sure you know that

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by Bob Cowan

Jeff, how long have you been running your set up? Any problems? Anything you think you should have done different? I don't want to spend money on parts that can't handle the rigors of racing.

I've run this since day one on this car; 5 seasons and ~14,000 miles. No problems and if I were to build over I honestly don't think I'd change a thing. I know you're looking at a KRC pump but I am using a garden variety OEM Mustang pump. The fluid gets dark (never smells burned) so I flush and change it every winter. I think a big contributor to that is simply RPM; with the OEM pulleys it is overdriven about 12% so when the engine sees 6,000 revs the pump is approaching 7,000! With very few exceptions the Challenge series guys run power steering and many of them put a big ol' pulley on the pump to slow it down in addition to cutting down a bit on parasitic power loss from spinning it so fast.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Bill_VA]

Bob, if you did a quick search, there's been a couple good threads on this exact subject. Here's one: Which Power Steering Rack??

[rich grsc]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

The '97 rack you mentioned is 2.4 turns lock to lock. The various Fox racks are 3.0 turns (#6406), 2.5 turns (#6439) and the quickest with 2.25 turns (#64163). I run the 2.25 turn version and use a Heidt's valve to back the boost down on the street because in that situation I like having the extra resistance on the wheel. On track and for autocross I adjust it to run full assist.

Oh, by the way, the '97 rack is 48+ inches wide vs. 45 for the Fox unit.

Jeff

Jeff, its my understanding that the 2.5 and 2.25 are the same ratio, just that the 2.25 has the turn limiter clips installed.
You could try running Honda power steering fluid, supposed to be a big improvement in quality.

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

. I know you're looking at a KRC pump but I am using a garden variety OEM Mustang pump.

Cheers,
Jeff

I know some people have had excellent success with basic stock parts. But, some people have had nothing but trouble - leaks, parts failures, fitment issues, etc.

Over the years, I'v learned a few things about building cars. Most importantly, cheap parts are very expensive. Don't be rediculous about it, but spend the money on a quality part specifically designed for your intended purpose. I plan on racing, so I want a quality race component that will last a long time.

Originally Posted by Bill_VA

Bob, if you did a quick search, there's been a couple good threads on this exact subject. Here's one: Which Power Steering Rack??

As always, this message board is a veritable warehouse of good information. In addition to the thread you quoted, there's a few others that really provide some great info - including part numbers and instructions.

Whenever I'm looking for answers, the firs thing I do is search this board. 4 out of 5 times, I find the info I need within a few minutes.

[trevor]

I wore out two reman racks. The socket on the inside of the tie rod wears. Both were the GT ratio, 2.25. That was with a cobra style wood wheel. I switched to a new AGR rack, 2.5 ratio and a Sparco 13" race wheel. I like the feel of the the latest setup better. I've run the KRC pump for 3 years without a problem. I have the flow on the most restriction. I think the new rack was $279.

[Bob Cowan]

After all the research I did, that seemed like the best combo: KRC pump kit, and AGR rack. Seems to be about the best value. The Flaming River rack might be a better part. But I can't understand why it's so expensive.