Push Button Start thoughts... - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

hala514 · 09-20-2012, 08:17 PM

Hi guys,

I have this pretty cool push button start piece that I was planning on using in my MK4 as a starter button. meaning it would take the place of the final key rotation for cranking.

But here is my question... Is it dumb to retain a key (for power on), and then use this button only as a starter button?

Originally, the plan was to put into one of the keyless RFID type systems so there would be no ignition key. In the case of the keyless, a button push with no brake is power on, and a button push with brake is "crank". But at this point, priorities are shifting to just getting the car done.

Thoughts?

QSL · 09-20-2012, 08:31 PM

we originally planned for this too. But what changed my mind was that i wanted a fast easy way to shut down the engine in case of an emergency. IE throttle sticking!

Driving my Challenger (new) it has a keyless entry and ignition. When driving, to shut the car down in a emergency, you need to push the brake and hold down the start button and it will shut down the engine. It worried me enough to just use a key.

Darren · 09-20-2012, 08:38 PM

If you are worried about emergency shut off get yourself an additional toggle with cover. Set it up so you have to flip up the cover and move the toggle to "on" then use the push botton momentary start. You can then use the quick kill the toggle offers. I used a toggle with momentary on for my ignition for this reason.

Dr Stebo · 09-20-2012, 09:01 PM

I wired mine so you need key for power and push button for start. I can also use key to start if for some reason button fails. I thought of keyless and push button also but just haven't done it yet. I have a master power switch between seats on back panel. If I had to do over again I would have put master switch closer ton console panel. Can't reach when belted in with 4 point harness

Jack Wojack · 09-20-2012, 09:04 PM

That is a COOL button! However I personally think a start button is dumb in a Cobra; Just one more thing on the dash. I took great pains to keep buttons and knobs off the dash. Modern cars with keyless entry...fine, or in a race car with no key...fine. But I don't see it along with a key.

You asked for opinions.

I do have a Kill Switch on the dash just in front of my right hand when it is on the wheel. With an MSD box a kill switch is simply a one wire hook-up.

PS a master disconnect will Not kill the engine when the engine is running...try it. The alternator that is spinning supplies the power.

Jack

Dr Stebo · 09-20-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Wojack

That is a COOL button! However I personally think a start button is dumb in a Cobra; Just one more thing on the dash. I took great pains to keep buttons and knobs off the dash. Modern cars with keyless entry...fine, or in a race car with no key...fine. But I don't see it along with a key.

You asked for opinions.

I do have a Kill Switch on the dash just in front of my right hand when it is on the wheel. With an MSD box a kill switch is simply a one wire hook-up.

PS a master disconnect will Not kill the engine when the engine is running...try it. The alternator that is spinning supplies the power.

Jack

Mine won't run without power to alternator, computer or fuel pump. Once I shut master off.

Steak · 09-20-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Stebo

I wired mine so you need key for power and push button for start. I can also use key to start if for some reason button fails. I thought of keyless and push button also but just haven't done it yet. I have a master power switch between seats on back panel. If I had to do over again I would have put master switch closer ton console panel. Can't reach when belted in with 4 point harness

Same here. Key for power, button to start.

Chepsk8 · 09-20-2012, 10:54 PM

While mine is more of a race car, I eliminated the key completely. Toggle switch for ignition system, alt, and fuel pump, and a push-button to hit the starer solenoid. All the car functions are by toggle switch, so the dash does look good. (And for security, there is a hidden kill switch)

Quick, easy, and quite effective.

nd4spd · 09-20-2012, 11:12 PM

I don't use a key on mine but have a battery cut off switch as well as an ignition toggle switch; the ignition toggle switch (arming you could say) has to be on then push button to start; to turn the car off flip the toggle switch and it turns off; also I have a switch for the MSD box that is hidden for the outside over nights.

Bill Lohmiller · 09-20-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chepsk8

While mine is more of a race car, I eliminated the key completely. Toggle switch for ignition system, alt, and fuel pump, and a push-button to hit the starer solenoid. All the car functions are by toggle switch, so the dash does look good. (And for security, there is a hidden kill switch)

Quick, easy, and quite effective.

X2 One of the very first things I was really looking forward to on my build was being completely "free of the key" thing. It is a small thing to be sure but even now after some years and many miles, hopping into the driver seat with no key required still makes me smile.....

Agree that is a very cool switch -- suggest you let it bask in all its glory sans key.

Regards,
Bill

oxide · 09-21-2012, 12:13 AM

I used the Ford GT start button and the stock Mustang steering column with the key. The key has to be turned to run for the start button to work.

Silverstreak02 · 09-21-2012, 01:32 AM

I felt the same about having a key and a start button. I eliminated the ignition key and added a battery isolation relay, toggle for the ignition and a push button for the starter. To start the car I push a button on my key fob. It puts power on the car to all things that would normally get power when the key is in the accessory position. Then I flip the ignition toggle up and push the start button. I like the look without the key and the battery isolation relay with fob provides some security. Send me a PM if you want the schematic.

The toggle on the left is ignition. The start button is in the middle.

Jeff

tirod · 09-21-2012, 05:30 PM

All this is fascinating, simply because of the variety that can be done.

One area I have some concern with is how someone in the family, or a public service agent, will get the car started when you aren't conscious or available. Wiring up interesting new secret ways to do it means you are leaving the car open to on the spot modification by Joe the Good Neighbor responding to an incident. Tow truck drivers have little regard as it is removing a vehicle from a scene.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest your Cobra might burn down with the garage because your wife couldn't start it - just suggesting how far do we really need to go? Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

I like the idea of both key - to have a modicum of normal security - and a push button, which is helpful when you want to bump the motor over. Plus, if you use an Accusump, you can key it on, wait for the oil to come up, then push the button. Redundant, but impresses the 12 year old in us.

While master disconnects are required for racing, a non comp car then has another area for misdiagnosis or pranksterism (you're not paranoid if they really do screw with you.) From the perspective of 40 years of accumulated vehicle use, master switches aren't part of the normal use pattern.

Taking that as a cue, I like to pull my headlights on, use a turn signal mounted on the column, and have a key to start the car. Wipers are a turn switch when on the dash, and having things that way means 98% of Americans could start it up and drive it. The 2% who would steal it would likely just winch it on a truck and disappear into the night anyway.

Odds are, the 98% might need to, I don't need them under the dash ripping out wires vainly trying to Hollywood their way into the Good Samaritan Hall of Fame.

Key's on the key ring, dear.

Drop Zone · 09-21-2012, 05:42 PM

Why not look into Key-To-Keyless. It comes with two FOB units that are required to start the vehicle. You can program it to not start say as if at a car show or whatever. Requires that the brake is depressed to start. you can hit the FOB key botton for accy. Nice unit and very easy to install and operate.

Drop Zone · 09-21-2012, 05:51 PM

Made a mistake on the name of the unit it is 2 GO KEYLESS by Digital Guard Dawg

Armed Mode

The PBS II automatically arms and locks out your vehicles ignition from being able to be started 20 seconds after the iTag™ leaves the vehicles proximity. (About 10”) When the system is ARMED the Start Button has NO functionality

Starting Mode

This will likely be your most commonly used mode in daily operation. As you approach your vehicle and the iTag™ is recognized, The systems Start button LED will light up.
Once you have entered your vehicle, put you foot on the Brake (The Start Button LED will then begin to flash) The LED is flashing it is your indication that the vehicle is ready to be started. Once the LED begins flashing simply depress and hold the Start Button until your engine starts.

ACCESSORY Mode

The PBS II also allows you to turn on only selected vehicle Accessories, (such as your radio) without the need to start your vehicle. To turn on only Accessories, simply press the systems Start Button one time Without pushing the brake pedal. The first push with activate the systems ACC #1 circuit, a second push will additionally activate the ACC #2 & Ignition circuits.

*** Note at any time you can move directly to START mode by simply putting your foot on the Brake and pushing the Start button.

Bill Lohmiller · 09-21-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirod

I like the idea of both key - to have a modicum of normal security - and a push button, ....you can key it on, wait for the oil to come up, then push the button. Redundant, but impresses the 12 year old in us.

Obviously my inner 12 year old is in complete control

Regards,
Bill

hala514 · 09-21-2012, 08:27 PM

Thanks for all the opinions guys.

I am going to have a non-original look to my interior, but not anything really crazy either. That said, I have silver faced autometers and baseball glove leather planned. I think the start push button will be sort of cool, and maybe it won't be so bad to have the key AND the push button. I do have a master 12v disconnect hidden under the dash as well. In retrospect, maybe I should have gotten a keyed master disconnect and eliminated the key in the dash. Oh well...

I came across this on youtube. same concept and button and I kind of like the location too. Never considered putting the button there!

Ford Power Push Button Starter Fitted - YouTube

bwana50 · 09-21-2012, 08:33 PM

I used key for ignition and push-button for start on THRAMP.

As an odd aside, my BMW uses a button to both start and stop the engine. After driving the BMW for awhile and then driving THRAMP, I have caught myself reaching for the button a couple times to shut it off, and have to remind myself "DO NOT push the button to shut down this car!"

dale · 09-21-2012, 11:05 PM

Or, you could use a latching ingition on/off button in place of the key switch; use it to turn ignition system on/off, and the start button as you have planned to do. Go see what they have at Home « AutoLoc Power Accessories. HTH's.

Dave O · 09-21-2012, 11:21 PM

Use of the ISIS system gives you a lot of options for starting and is easy to set up.

Avalanche325 · 09-22-2012, 12:01 AM

I agree with push button (keyless entry) OR a key. I think it is cheesy having a key that will start the car and having a button to do the same thing. Kinda screams "kit car". If you want a push button start, put the whole system in. Just my opinion - but you asked.

Todd Buttrick · 09-22-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalanche325

I agree with push button (keyless entry) OR a key. I think it is cheesy having a key that will start the car and having a button to do the same thing. Kinda screams "kit car". If you want a push button start, put the whole system in. Just my opinion - but you asked.

Agreed. Were originals push button? I have push button from a local marine store and love it. It's like taking off with launch sequence in a fighter. Turn on the kill switch, turn on key, pump the pedal and hit the starter button. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Drop Zone · 09-22-2012, 02:33 AM

I have the keyless system in my roadster and works beautiful. The FOB also has a button that can be programed for other operations like a trunk lid popper. If you lose the FOB on the road you can still get it started through a switch you use to input a security code to the controller. I don't see the reason in having a key system and a push button to start the roadster when one or the other will do the job. MHO

oxide · 09-22-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop Zone

I have the keyless system in my roadster and works beautiful. The FOB also has a button that can be programed for other operations like a trunk lid popper. If you lose the FOB on the road you can still get it started through a switch you use to input a security code to the controller. I don't see the reason in having a key system and a push button to start the roadster when one or the other will do the job. MHO

Since I am using the full column from the Mustang, it also means I have a steering column lock. plus I have a coupe with door, hatch and hood locks which requires me to carry keys anyway. So a push button looks cool and matches the Ford GT dash design I am trying to replicate.