Seeking cost effect low, passenger side alternator mount ...?

[lynnhowlyn]

May not be possible, but I'm looking for ideas re: a cost effective, low, passenger side alternator mount for my sbf.

Needs to be compatible with my existing reverse rotation water pump (Edelbrock 8840), my installed Ford OEM power steering unit, useable with the Edelbrock aluminum heads (Performer RPM), and ideally, with the rest of the front dress-up kit from CFR Performance.

1979-93 FORD MUSTANG 5.0 BILLET ALUMINUM SERPENTINE PULLEY & BRACKET KIT - POLISHED

I need (want) the low pass side mount so I can do the Ford Big Block Degas mod that Chris ("CCRsAC") has listed on the Forum...

How To - OEM Big Block Ford Degas Tank on Small Block

1st picture shows the front of my engine with the "high" alternator mount that came with the CFR stuff.

2nd picture shows how Chris has his degas tank mounted (he doesn't have PS and appears to be using a standard rotation WP)

I recognize that I may need to add an idler for the serpentine belt - which will be OK as long as everything fits.

I hope I can accomplish this without need to scrap all of my CFR stuff, and end up having to buy a much more expensive (but admittedly very high quality) complete set-up from someone like March.

I've sent an inquiry to March Performance, but haven't heard back yet.

Mark at Breeze said he doesn't have anything, CFR said they can't help, and the alternator mount offered by Mike Everson at Replica parts apparently won't work either. Maybe the mount offered by Mike Forte will work --- will need to get hold of him and check ...

Seeking ideas, thoughts and helpful comments ...

Thanks in advance

Lynn

[JKleiner]

How about if you swing the alternator down sort of like is shown in your photo of the V-belt setup? You'd have to run the tensioner rod (represented as the blue line in my crude sketch up) to pick up a water pump bolt or unused front cover boss, which could require a different length sleeve. Belt routing would be as shown in red. Would it work?
Heck, I don't know but you've got nothing to lose by experimenting with it!



Good luck,
Jeff

[rich grsc]

I dont think you need to lower the alternator, I think the hose will clear the top of the alternator just fine. The hose on a stock 5.0 goes over the top. You can always raise the tank a small amount when you do the mock up for the tank bracket if you need to.

[5.8Cobra]

I didnt have much luck with the CFR alternator bracket either so I went with Kirkhams bracket. Heres my setup with the degas tank with Breeze upper hose, power steering and reverse rotation water pump.

Mike

[dv/dt]

The problem with going with the low mount alt and reverse rotation pump is the belt wrap. Below is a pic of mine and you can see that without the idler the only belt route would mean the waterpump has almost no belt wrap (although 5.8Cobra's post would indicate it works). I had to custom make these (had them cut by a waterjet company) since I could not find anything that would work with this combo.

[JKleiner]

Rod,
I agree that the belt wrap might be an issue, however I have concerns about the crank rather than the water pump. The pump really doesn't take a trememdous amount of effort to drive but everything keys on the crank. FWIW, although I wondered if there was sufficient wrap on the crank pulley when I initially set it up I've flogged mine mercilessly without issues for ~14K miles using this "V" configuration.



Cheers,
Jeff

[CCRsAC]

Lynn - FWIW, my brackets are as follows:

1) at the cylinder head, I used a 6" bolt and a stock '65 Mustang alternator spacer from National Parts Depot;
2) the lower tensioner bracket is from a 351 Cleveland that I shortened at the water pump end and then rebent to reverse the stock bends (cold bent on my Harbor Freight press); and
3) upper bracket is 3/16" plate aluminum that I cut based on a cardboard template, then I made some aluminum spacers to make it fit on the waterpump in the plane that I needed.

All of the brackets were based off the initial spacer and bolt on the head. In the end, I didn't need any spacers on the waterpump pulley to get the belt in perfect alignment. As long as the brackets hold the alternator solidly and offer the flexibility to adjust tension, you should be good. Although, I guess that you could add a tensioner/idler easy enough and avoid the hassle of making the alternator mount adjustable.

Keep us posted on your progress!

[lynnhowlyn]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

How about if you swing the alternator down sort of like is shown in your photo of the V-belt setup? You'd have to run the tensioner rod (represented as the blue line in my crude sketch up) to pick up a water pump bolt or unused front cover boss, which could require a different length sleeve. Belt routing would be as shown in red. Would it work?
Heck, I don't know but you've got nothing to lose by experimenting with it!



Good luck,
Jeff

Several great and helpful responses. I don't know how to do a multi-quote response on the computer - so I'll respond to a couple individually.

Jeff - I did initially look at just dropping the alternator on the CFR bracket but got very concerned by what looked like insufficient belt contact with the water pump pulley.
But based on Mike's experience/comment by Mike (5.8Cobra), I need to go back and re-look at this possibility.

Thanks

[lynnhowlyn]

Originally Posted by 5.8Cobra

I didnt have much luck with the CFR alternator bracket either so I went with Kirkhams bracket. Heres my setup with the degas tank with Breeze upper hose, power steering and reverse rotation water pump.

Mike

Mike -
Safe to assume that you've got adequate cooling with your set up? My concern would be the amount of belt/water pump pulley contact. (As a side-bar on the cooling question - I live in southern Utah (St George) and it gets powerful warm (hot) around here in the summer time.)

In my searching for a solution on the Forum, I did run across a comment re: the Kirkham bracket - possibly from you - but when I went to the Kirkham site to look for it, I didn't see much that was of any help. Any chance you've got a link to the Kirkham bracket ....?

Many thanks

Lynn

[lynnhowlyn]

Originally Posted by CCRsAC

Lynn - FWIW, my brackets are as follows:

1) at the cylinder head, I used a 6" bolt and a stock '65 Mustang alternator spacer from National Parts Depot;
2) the lower tensioner bracket is from a 351 Cleveland that I shortened at the water pump end and then rebent to reverse the stock bends (cold bent on my Harbor Freight press); and
3) upper bracket is 3/16" plate aluminum that I cut based on a cardboard template, then I made some aluminum spacers to make it fit on the waterpump in the plane that I needed.

All of the brackets were based off the initial spacer and bolt on the head. In the end, I didn't need any spacers on the waterpump pulley to get the belt in perfect alignment. As long as the brackets hold the alternator solidly and offer the flexibility to adjust tension, you should be good. Although, I guess that you could add a tensioner/idler easy enough and avoid the hassle of making the alternator mount adjustable.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Chris -

Thanks 1st of all for posting the details of your "degas tank" mod that got me to where I am today
Like I read somewhere ... "Bolt-on's often don't"
But despite the difficulties I'm encountering, I think it's a great mod!

Thanks for sharing the details for sourcing of your pulleys and brackets.

My only two concerns with adapting what you've done are:
1) sourcing (and mounting) of an idler, and
2) the need to custom fab one of the brackets since my fab skills are NOT the greatest. With this part of the engine being right out in front where everyone can see it, I'm not anxious to have a DIY and possibly "hack-job" bracket being so "up close and personal".

I will post up what I eventually end up with.

Thanks again

Lynn

[5.8Cobra]

I am not up and running with this combo yet but I used to run a short belt on my Mustang that bypassed the smog, PS and AC which had even less wrap on the water pump and it cooled fine. I do see what everyone is saying about wrap around the crank. I plan on trying it this way and if it squeals I will revisit it then. Its not a problem til its a problem! I got the bracket off of ebay a couple years back but I am sure they still have them. Maybe give them a call, they were great to deal with on ebay.

Mike

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by lynnhowlyn

I did initially look at just dropping the alternator on the CFR bracket but got very concerned by what looked like insufficient belt contact with the water pump pulley.
But based on Mike's experience/comment by Mike (5.8Cobra), I need to go back and re-look at this possibility.

Just as a point of reference Lynn, there are a bunch of cars out there using the Breeze driver's side mount successfully. As you can see the belt just kind of kisses the WP pulley:



As I said above my concern would not be the WP but rather having sufficient wrap on the crank to avoid slippage on it since it has to drive the accessories.

Jeff

[lynnhowlyn]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

Just as a point of reference Lynn, there are a bunch of cars out there using the Breeze driver's side mount successfully. As you can see the belt just kind of kisses the WP pulley:


As I said above my concern would not be the WP but rather having sufficient wrap on the crank to avoid slippage on it since it has to drive the accessories.

Jeff

You're right - I hadn't noticed or paid much attention to the crank-belt contact which is the critical area.
It sometimes takes giving me a "whack-upside-the-head" to get me to notice things - but I got it now!
Thanks
Lynn

[AC Bill]

Here's a shot of my upper hose to give you an idea of the clearance at the alternator using a similar set up to your engine. Might be just enough room for the de-gas tank?


I have very little belt wrap on my water pump pulley, and no issues whatsoever with belt slipping,, etc. and that's with an underdrive crank pulley. (I have since changed pulley and fan, as I hated that black plastic fan.) Alternator charges fine as well.

[UrQ]

So have been playing and mocking a tank up for my spec racer and using the March 87-93 alternator mount seems like enough clearance. Taking a slightly different approach in replacing the current big block water neck adapter with a small block water neck adapter thus using the existing mounting (just different water neck and turned 180 degrees).