Using a roadster as a daily driver. - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

1meancobra · 09-18-2012, 04:22 AM

I've been a member of this forum for some time and have looked at factory five roadsters or potentially a Coupe 65 for a purchase for the past few years.

I've reached a point where my daily driver has some decent miles on it and my options are to either sell and get a new car for a daily driver, or keep it and purchase a roadster to split the time for my daily driving between my current car and the roadster.

My question is, how realistic is it for me to purchase a professionally built roadster, preferably with no donor parts, and have a reliable daily driver that I can commute with?

I figured it would be very realistic given the simplicity of the car and if it was professionally built and not done by first time builder or myself, that it should be reliable enough to serve as a daily driver. I wanted to tap the expertise on this forum for some feedback.

Also, I'm looking at a mark III or newer, relatively basic 302 with T5 transmission, again with no donor parts all new, professionally built for around $22,000-$25,000 as a resale. Am I realistic on my pricing? Lastly, can I ship to California any car registered in the nation, or does California require special registration\smog?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

radelow · 09-18-2012, 04:33 AM

I live in Southern California so we definitely have the weather that would allow virtual daily driving. With that said I personally would not do it. The car is loud, bumpy etc.... all things that are fun when driven on the weekends but might get old everyday... At least to me. In addition to that let's face facts that the car is not the safest mode of transportation out there and daily driving and subjecting yourself to traffic etc. just increases the chances of something happening. I drive my car every few Fridays to work and that seems to work for me...much more I personally would not want to do.

As it relates to Smog. You will have to go throught the SB100 process. I am doing it right now on my car that I purchased out of state. Takes time but really isn't all that difficult.

Bob Cowan · 09-18-2012, 04:47 AM

It all depends on your definition of a "Daily Driver".

It doesn't take much to make a FFR roadster reliable enough for the task. IMO, the basic idea of the car makes it extremly reliable. The basic donor concept is to use factory Ford Mustang parts. You can easily get 100K miles out of them.

The headaches come from those of us who are not smart enough to leave well enough alone. We need more pwoer, more speed, better handeling etc. So we use high tech aftermarket parts - which don't always work as well as we'de like them too.

Some FFR supplied components are not true quality parts, and won't last for years of daily duty. Usually simple components like carpeting and door latches.

There's not a whole lot of comfort in a Roadster. Things like satellite radio and heated cup holders are generally not included in a roadster. You can add them, but now you're making the build more complicated and expensive.

Can it be done? Sure. Put your mind (and your wallet) to it, and you can accomplish anything. But it's not common.

Frank Messina · 09-18-2012, 05:20 AM

bigwavedave · 09-18-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1meancobra

I

Also, I'm looking at a mark III or newer, relatively basic 302 with T5 transmission, again with no donor parts all new, professionally built for around $22,000-$25,000 as a resale. Am I realistic on my pricing?
Any feedback would be appreciated.

Spend some time in the Classifieds forum on this site and you'll see that you're a little low. You're probably going to be in the 31-40k range for a well-built kit, sans any donor parts. A build like you describe can and does cost said builder well in excess of 50k, Ask me how I know this. If, or when the economy improves, those 'for sale' numbers will only go up.

As for it being a daily driver, I can only assume you live where it either never or rarely ever rains. Something to consider... Just my .02

JKleiner · 09-18-2012, 09:36 AM

HERE is a recent similar topic you may find informative.

Jeff

AJuergens · 09-18-2012, 11:49 AM

Used mine as a daily driver for the first year I had it. 12.5k and only minor hiccups. I don't really think the donor/non donor or the 1st time builder/professional builder ideas matter much. You are using components that were designed for a car twice the weight. Couple of things to think about... Driving in the rain is funny when you are coming back from a car show... Not so much when you are trying to make 800 miles in a day, or show up at your destination with out having sweat stains on your back and butt.

tirod · 09-18-2012, 01:25 PM

First - environment. A daily driver is usually one with a roof. Most car drivers commuting have cars with roofs because you might leave your house dry, but 5 miles later, you are in a downpour pulling into your parking space. You can't put up a folding roof fast enough to keep dry, you better already have it up.

Not funny to walk into an important appointment soaking wet. Pragmatic living in reality dictates that we have a car with a roof. Living in SoCal does help - you can rely on half the year being fair weather. The other half, not so much.

Either type of car will be found wanting in terms of water getting into the interior. The nature of how they are assembled makes them difficult to seal up well. Expect leaks.

Would you commute on a motorcycle as a daily driver? Many do. If you have the same perspective on transportation, then a roadster or coupe won't be significantly different, and certainly just as problematic. Aside from weather, some people don't see small sports cars well, they don't anticipate them moving quickly in traffic, and won't forsee that you could be where they don't expect you. Since the average commuter is bumbling along with coffee, shaver, cellphone, and bagel juggling with the newspaper, a roadster driver may need a seriously high level of paranoia to survive. They aren't all trying to get you - they just don't care.

The Usual Problems - oops, you forgot to fill up, the wiper isn't working well, *%$& a flat, and another parking lot ding. Got Jumper Cables? Not for you, but to help a coworker. It's not nice to rumble away waving because you can't help.

In lots of those scenarios, bikers do it all the time. So do a lot of unprepared drivers. The problem is that if you drive a hand built custom car, it might be expected you are a closet mechanic capable of fixing everything in the lot. Be aware of your coworkers misperceptions.

As for "professionally built," that won't help one built. New cars have teething problems, it's why new car dealers have a prep department and Customer Service. The factory issues TSB's, recalls, and pay lawsuits for inadequate design. A car built by hand, regardless who did it, will have little issues. Bolts loosen, hoses leak, and as the miles pile on, engineering discordances crop up. It's entirely correct to warn you that the folks who assemble kits with a high ratio of "race car parts" don't understand they are of limited durability and frequently biased to have horrible performance at the daily driver level. You have to wind the snot out of the chassis to get them into their design envelope. Good choice to avoid them entirely in a daily driver.

Daily driver kit car? Sure - just like the hundreds of thousands of custom choppers, 18" lifted 4WD trucks on 44" tires, detuned NASCAR racers, or Escalades on 22" rims with 30 profile skins. It's done, but it will present a different set of working "parameters" with noise, lack of some commonly accepted comfort options, etc.

You decide, plenty do it, and just as many park them in nasty weather because they are really fair weather show cars on the road. But, in SoCal, you can do a lot more of it. In the rest of the country with a guarantee of 100 days of rain, plus an actual winter?

Coupe. Most of us drive with a roof.

CraigS · 09-18-2012, 01:26 PM

Forgetting pricing for a moment I don't see any reason you can't use it as a nearly daily driver since you would have your other car as backup.Some of this might depend on how you need to dress for work. There will inevitably come a day when the weather guys are wrong and your get rained on while on the way to work.A backup plain might be to have a complete change of clothes stored at work. This is one of two issues that you would need to work on. 1-it's difficult to make one of these completely water tight although 90% is pretty easy.2-the other issue is the need to grease the suspension often as was done back in the days. Not hard to do, but not good to forget. My plan would be to have a top,and heat,and definately cloth covers on the seats as the usual vinyl is terrible at anything over 75 degrees. Good luck, i hope yopu make the plunge.
PS: Do a search for Ralph Button and read over the last decade or so how he has put 400,000 plus miles on his FFR.

1meancobra · 09-18-2012, 01:33 PM

Great feedback guys, thank you.

I'm probably overstating the daily driver part of it, I'll probably be using it twice a week at the most and more importantly having a reliable second car in case my true daily driver needs to go to the shop.

I think my next step is to find a local one which I can test drive. I'm hoping to find a California car to bypass all the SB 100 paperwork, but it sounds like it's not too big of a deal in the first place.

1meancobra · 09-18-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigS

Forgetting pricing for a moment I don't see any reason you can't use it as a nearly daily driver since you would have your other car as backup.Some of this might depend on how you need to dress for work. There will inevitably come a day when the weather guys are wrong and your get rained on while on the way to work.A backup plain might be to have a complete change of clothes stored at work. This is one of two issues that you would need to work on. 1-it's difficult to make one of these completely water tight although 90% is pretty easy.2-the other issue is the need to grease the suspension often as was done back in the days. Not hard to do, but not good to forget. My plan would be to have a top,and heat,and definately cloth covers on the seats as the usual vinyl is terrible at anything over 75 degrees. Good luck, i hope yopu make the plunge.
PS: Do a search for Ralph Button and read over the last decade or so how he has put 400,000 plus miles on his FFR.

I will do that search, that sounds incredible to have 400,000 miles on a roadster. Weather keeps popping up as a significant factor and frankly I can't remember last time it rained here. Although I think were expecting a wetter winter. I'm pretty handy with working on cars and I am not really concerned about getting dirt under my nails over the weekend; as long as it's not on the side of the freeway.

ClemsonS197 · 09-18-2012, 02:04 PM

I'm building mine to daily drive whenever weather allows. To me, extra space and creature comforts have greatly increased the likely hood this will be possible.

Other than rainy days, extreme hot and cold, I anticipate driving it.

Stereo, heater, heated seats, enlarged footboxes, footbox fans, comfortable seats, fuel injected motor, power steering, power brakes, and hydraulic clutch are all items I added to make the car comfortable and reliable.

I'd look for many of those if buying a complete car for sale, or anticipate adding what I could.

QSL · 09-18-2012, 03:57 PM

Living in So Cal, there is only ONE factor that would keep me from driving it to work every week... Traffic! It takes 1.5 + Hours to make my 37 Mile commute. That is a LOT of stop and go. I had to buy a car that was designed for a stick in automatic. Its not as fun to drive, but then again, i am stopped most of the time. I cant immagine sitting in 3hrs of traffic each day in the roadster.

cobramd · 09-18-2012, 03:57 PM

Over the last 12 years I have driven mine daily providing the weather report calls for no rain and a temp of 45-85 degrees. It has been very dependable and has made it home under its own power every day. Believe it or not the weather forcast has been wrong though and I've been caught in the rain dozens of times. I keep a bright yellow foul weather suit in the trunk which will keep me dry while I sit in traffic and smile at all the fools driving multicolored jelly bean econoboxes who are laughing at me. Also a car cover and weather proof seat covers really helps on the days with unexpected rain.

tjmotter · 09-18-2012, 04:03 PM

One other consideration is insurance. The rates from Midwest are really good for a weekend warrior but they start to get ugly when you add in daily driver routines like high mileage and parking it at work. If you go with a more traditional insurance option you may have trouble getting the replacement value insurance coverage.

Make sure you do all your homework....

edwardb · 09-18-2012, 04:15 PM

If you haven't already, check your insurance rates. For my policy, miles are limited and it specifically states "not for regular commuting" and only "occasional drive to work" which I do sometimes. The insurance is manageable with these conditions, but still not cheap. Not sure how much it would change if used for a daily driver.

Edit: Too slow typing on my part.

Same point as tjmotter right before me.

QSL · 09-18-2012, 04:16 PM

Midwest will not cover the full value if its over 35k We found american collectors will cover whatever value you state AND let you drive to work and errands. Its only a few extra hundred per year.

Nemo · 09-18-2012, 04:23 PM

I have the perfect car for you in my garage. 331, T5, pro built, everything.

But you might need to add your 22-25K numbers together.

Oh, and it's already SB100.

Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

Hunter 2 · 09-18-2012, 06:58 PM

I drove mine everyday for 6 years. But not because I had to. Trust me. Some days you just won't feel like driving it.

Jeff R · 09-18-2012, 09:18 PM

Your commute will be a big part of how well it will work for you. Mine is under 15 minutes, maybe 20 with traffic. I probably average 3 to 4 days a week in the summer - I'm in San Diego, so thats from March to November

Even living here, having a backup car is pretty much a must have. How's your commute? Where do you live?

pavieSD · 09-18-2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff R

Your commute will be a big part of how well it will work for you. Mine is under 15 minutes, maybe 20 with traffic. I probably average 3 to 4 days a week in the summer - I'm in San Diego, so thats from March to November

Even living here, having a backup car is pretty much a must have. How's your commute? Where do you live?

Another thing to consider is where you're going to park it? Outside? Underground? Gated and/or security? Consider that these cars do not have door locks and aren't exactly secure compared to your average daily driver. Not to mention the amount of attention they draw. Sitting unattended for 8-9 hours a day may be too much risk for a lot of people.

Mark

Bill Hughes · 09-18-2012, 11:38 PM

Its a 4 wheeled motor cycle. I have used motorcycles as daily drivers. I have been from New Jersey to San Jose on a Yamaha RD350!

It can be done.

I was 30 at the time, Im 65 now.

NEVER AGAIN

Bill

Thomas W · 09-19-2012, 04:13 AM

Another thought to consider is having a catalytic convertor to keep you from smelling like exhaust fumes.

1meancobra · 09-19-2012, 04:33 AM

My commute is about 12 miles each way from Glendale to downtown LA. About a 30 min. commute. Some of it stop and go and most of it relatively open.

Insurance is a thought, I will check with my carrier to see what is offered.

As to the 22,000+25,000 offer, that's a bit steep for my pocket...I probably need to keep looking...

I saw this on ebay, can you give me your thoughts on it? It's not exactly what I want but it seems to be a decent match.

Replica/Kit Makes : Cobra Shelby in Replica/Kit Makes | eBay Motors

Lastly, this is a purchase I'm planning to take my time on so this is just a thought. I'm probably going to be serious about the purchase in late this year or early next year.

NiceGuyEddie · 09-19-2012, 07:22 PM

you will be hard-pressed to have someone let you test-drive their Factory Five, sometimes even if they are for sale. these cars can get away from you in a jiffy.
the Ebay ad (currently) has a starting bid of $25,000. if it goes for upper 20's or low 30's, that is about right for run of the mill a used one.
a DD with a stock 4.6L EFI engine and catalytic converters is reliable and relatively quiet, especially if the cats are used. very plausible for a DD "most of the time" in SoCal where the weather is pleasant most the time
your greater concern as a DD in SoCal is the ripping hot seats if they are black vinyl roadster seats
as far as SB100, regardless of what the "fraud-sayers" will preach, scads of people have purchased out-of-state cars that were classified there as 1965, and everything went through here in California.
also keep in mind that these cars are a pain in the arse to wash, so if you want a squaky-clean look "most the time", this burden is considerable.
like the JKleiner's link, there are many "driving" Cobr@s that will suit your need. Factory Fives come with extra premiums because they are built for the track.

you probably know, but our classified section is a GREAT way to get an idea of asking prices, and often times the seller even post the sale price. we all know what these cars cost, and sometimes it's not such a big secret.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/18-fact...tercity-lines/

cheers,

CraigS · 09-19-2012, 11:03 PM

You are going about this the right way. You have time, you can wait til a good deal surfaces, and research in the meantime. My only concern is how much work/money are you willing to invest after the initial purchase. These cars are never done and most of us are fine w/ that. Is that OK w/ you? If you view this as the start of an adventure, you will be fine. If not, I'd suggest something else. Not trying to be a hard a$$ here, just trying to give you a heads up. I bought a MkI in 05 and kept upgrading it cause I love that approach. Get something I can drive right away, but then have the fun of making upgrades to make it my own. In 07 I totaled it. My point here is that, as my wife and I drove home after the wreck, she asked if I wanted to do another one. I hesitated a little cause I have been involved in cars all my life and realized there are a lot of other cars that would be fun too. But then I thought about the many friends I had made in just two years. So it took about 60 seconds ( OK maybe 90 seconds) for me to say "H-ll yes, I want to do another one!!!". For me this is a very special group of people that I feel lucky to be a part of and it has changed my life in a way that maybe can't be described completely. I hope that you will be joining us!

mjp · 09-19-2012, 11:04 PM

I'd think a hardtop, AC/Heating would be good. Also, avoid too much low end torque, if you want power, a centrifugal SC or turbo may be a better way to go to keep the low end torque manageable. As others have said, these like to slide around in the rain...

NiceGuyEddie · 09-20-2012, 01:48 AM

nice points but:

a/c not necessary for his commute to downtown LA.

he'd be hard pressed to find a turbo car in his price range.

350 days a year, we know it's not gonna rain. the remaining 15, "surprise" rain storms are extremely rare.

1meancobra · 09-20-2012, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigS

You are going about this the right way. You have time, you can wait til a good deal surfaces, and research in the meantime. My only concern is how much work/money are you willing to invest after the initial purchase. These cars are never done and most of us are fine w/ that. Is that OK w/ you? If you view this as the start of an adventure, you will be fine. If not, I'd suggest something else. Not trying to be a hard a$$ here, just trying to give you a heads up. I bought a MkI in 05 and kept upgrading it cause I love that approach. Get something I can drive right away, but then have the fun of making upgrades to make it my own. In 07 I totaled it. My point here is that, as my wife and I drove home after the wreck, she asked if I wanted to do another one. I hesitated a little cause I have been involved in cars all my life and realized there are a lot of other cars that would be fun too. But then I thought about the many friends I had made in just two years. So it took about 60 seconds ( OK maybe 90 seconds) for me to say "H-ll yes, I want to do another one!!!". For me this is a very special group of people that I feel lucky to be a part of and it has changed my life in a way that maybe can't be described completely. I hope that you will be joining us!

thank you!

I know what you mean by these cars not being completed, and even if they are I'm sure I'll want to customize them to some extent. I feel/think I'm mechanically inclined to build one ground-up, I've done plenty of mechanical work on current cars. For me it's just a matter of lack of time. To answer your question, I think I will probably invest some time after the purchase to work on the car. Especially given I have my plan a daily driver available. Also, not to cause a commotion on this board, but I've always loved the Coupe 65. I would love to own that car some day and this to me is my first step into the factory five lineup.

1meancobra · 09-20-2012, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjp

I'd think a hardtop, AC/Heating would be good. Also, avoid too much low end torque, if you want power, a centrifugal SC or turbo may be a better way to go to keep the low end torque manageable. As others have said, these like to slide around in the rain...

my preference is a normally aspirated engine. My other daily driver is a Mercedes E 55 which are supercharged. It is great with plenty of low-end torque and acceptable to me because of a flat torque curve. Having said this, my preference is a normally aspirated engine. Besides, I think the other gentleman is right about the price starting to move up with a forced induction motor.