Wilwood clutch pedal broke

[Dually]

8002 miles with a spec stage II clutch. Doing some easy driving today and the clutch perdal broke directly above the point that the pinion rod slips through. Only a few minutes form home so drove it in 2nd gear.

Reviewed threads on here and seems to be a problem others have encountered and the fix seems to be switching to forged pedals. Started to take the stuff apart tonite and glad I put a removable panel on top of cowl but still need arms about 6" long to get at all the parts?
Here are the Wilwood part #'s for the forged pedals:

330-11301 Brake pedal
330-11302 Clutch pedal
330-11280 Adjusatble pedal pad (1 required per pedal)

Is this a permanent fix?

[tjmotter]

I was one of the first to have the broken pedal (same spot as yours). Jesper from FFR contacted me a couple of months ago so they may have an answer by now (you should reach out to them first).

The solution in my case was to convert to a hydraulic clutch. I changed the pedal, added an MC and installed the Hydraulic slave kit from Fortes. VERY happy with the new setup and no issues after the first 1000 miles.

HTH
Todd

Originally Posted by Dually

8002 miles with a spec stage II clutch. Doing some easy driving today and the clutch perdal broke directly above the point that the pinion rod slips through. Only a few minutes form home so drove it in 2nd gear.

Reviewed threads on here and seems to be a problem others have encountered and the fix seems to be switching to forged pedals. Started to take the stuff apart tonite and glad I put a removable panel on top of cowl but still need arms about 6" long to get at all the parts?
Here are the Wilwood part #'s for the forged pedals:

330-11301 Brake pedal
330-11302 Clutch pedal
330-11280 Adjusatble pedal pad (1 required per pedal)

Is this a permanent fix?

[ram_g]

Is this a Complete Kit and are you using the FFR designed aluminum quadrant with a clutch cable?

If yes, the permanent fix is to do away with that setup (because it imparts a torque to the pedal that it was never designed for) and go to a hydraulic setup (that does not impart a torque and that the Wilwood pedal box was designed for).

The forged pedals may help but IMHO are still not the proper solution.

[5.8Cobra]

I would hope that the forged pedals would be a permanent fix. Probably the easiest way to go on a completed car. Keep us posted on the difficulty level.

Mike

[Olli]

I have a forged pedal box that I would sell you.

Olli

[bobcat]

hardest part is getting the broken pieces out-I also pulled that quadrant out-put the better forged Wilwood pedal in and went hydraulic (see Darren's parts list) love hydraulics-I have the Spec 2 also.It was easier to access some of the pedal removal from the left side just behind the dash (where the ends of the dash curl in) hope ya got itty bitty hands (and some band aids)

Bob

[CraigS]

Are you going to do the brake pedal too. I'd be even more worried about it.

[Dually]

made decision to switch over to hydraulic clutch and take care of for good. Lucky this time around as was close to home after a long ride and was able to limp home. Bellhousing is Quicktime and trans is TKO600. Does anyone have a list of parts or name of a supplier that can get me hooked up to get this switched to manual? Time kills as I want car back on road for Sean's rally on the 29th.

Olli, looks like I will need at least the clutch pedal so I will take the pedal box you have with the forged pedals. PM sent.

[PhoneGuy]

Originally Posted by Dually

made decision to switch over to hydraulic clutch and take care of for good. Lucky this time around as was close to home after a long ride and was able to limp home. Bellhousing is Quicktime and trans is TKO600. Does anyone have a list of parts or name of a supplier that can get me hooked up to get this switched to manual? Time kills as I want car back on road for Sean's rally on the 29th.

Sure, call Forte he has the parts and the custom bracket you will need for hydraulic setup and if you have issues he will help you until it is working perfectly. One thing that I would suggest is going with a larger MC (1&1/8) as the 1" just didn't cut it for me with my setup.

Also, put the car up on jacks and get ready to get under and out from under the car at least 30-50 times. Good work out on the back and a great test of your patience.

[GWL]

Realize too, that to get a full pedal swing, with the newer forged set, you have to notch the 3/4" frame a bit for the clutch.

George

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by GWL

Realize too, that to get a full pedal swing, with the newer forged set, you have to notch the 3/4" frame a bit for the clutch.

George

Is that also true (having to notch the 3/4" frame) if you are using a 1 1/8 MC?

[Darren]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Are you going to do the brake pedal too. I'd be even more worried about it.

No reason to do the brake pedal, it is being used as designed. The FFR clutch quadrant is a poor design that puts stress on the clutch pedal in a way that it wasn't designed for. It was designed for a hydraulic clutch.

[GWL]

Originally Posted by skjsming

Is that also true (having to notch the 3/4" frame) if you are using a 1 1/8 MC?

The larger the MC the more fluid you will push for the same movement of the pedal, so with the larger MC you may get away without notching. Also remember that the pressure needed to move the larger MC will be greater.

When Mike Forte first sent out these hydraulic systems he was using a 13/16" MC. Upon reading threads here I exchanged with Mike for the 7/8" MC and have yet to hook up the hydraulics to see what my travel will be. Some have been happy with the 7/8" to 1" and others, as stated, have gone with the 1-1/8" MC and are happy.

It also depends on the slave cylinder size you will end up with. I've got a 7/8" slave. So I'll be working with a 7/8" MC to 7/8" SC with the newer forged pedals from Wilwood. I don't know what travel I will need and will be working that out later.

Others I hope will chime in.

George

[tirod]

Background on this issue previously: Wilwood Clutch pedal broke

Changing to a hydraulic clutch isn't necessary. What is necessary is to change the 2" offset mounting of the linkage to the pedal - the load is imparted in a way that twists the pedal lever.

Installation of the hydraulic clutch is different and doesn't do that. Being hydraulic is something else again. This has been a bit glossed over in the past - lots of recommendations to pay money and install hydraulic, little examination of the actual cause.

The simple preventative cure is don't install offset linkage to the pedal. Forum suppliers sell the correct linkage, too, which is a lot less expensive. The clutch can still be operated by cable, and the side load on the pedal corrected.

I sell a lot of hydraulic clutch cylinders to repair OEM setups, I've yet to sell a cable or quadrant. In my opinion and experience, mechanical linkage has a much longer life and needs little maintenance; cylinders, not so much. The parts available on the shelf tell me a lot - dozens of cylinders waiting to sell, not one clutch cable. Corporate accountants know where to place their bets.

If anyone is at the point in their build who can affect a change, now is the time to do it. Much easier than waiting.

[mirose]

I'm just checking in here with a related question....I have the wilwood pedal setup on one of the relatively newer MKIV complete kits (November 2010), which I think is what you all are referring to as the "forged" pedal. I have only 350 miles on my car in total, and have had no issues whatsoever, but can someone chime in if this setup/pedal has had any failures yet? Or is it just the older pedals?

[bobcat]

And using the parts as Darren listed and the new Wilwood forged pedal (cause I liked the look) which was 30.00-I did NOT have to notch the frame-did not have to change or modify the clutch fork. that's on a mark 3 with quicktime and tko600.

I agree with tirod on the cable system-my buddies spec racer (that I do alot of 300 mile drives with weekly) has all donor including the mustang pedal box/clutch cable which now has about 175,000 miles on it. It's the goofy quadrant with the twisting action/side loads thats the troublemaker.

Bob

[5.8Cobra]

If you want to be on the road quick... just swap out the pedal! You'll be driving Saturday!

Mike

[Dually]

OK, going to switch over to a hydraulic setup. Olli was good enough to sell me an extra wilwood pedal box he has with forged pedals and Mike Forte shipped out everything I need to do the swap this afternoon. Worse case, I just stick the pedal in and drive it with the cable thru year end but this weekend is looking like it might allow some good shop time so I plan on doing the swap.
Thinking back to last weeks ride thru Bethlehem, Tiffany and I got stuck in fair traffic for about 30 minutes and my leg was a little tired when we finally got out. Hope the hydraulic setup is a little easier on the longer drives or stop and go traffic.
Guys, no way I could have gone from broken to solution in 24 hrs if not for the great folks on this site.

Thank you.

[Avalanche325]

Have there been any cases of failure with the forged pedals?

[Dually]

So the saga continues
got into it tonite to get everything apart and prep for parts that are on the way. Access is not that bad once you take out drivers seat, steering wheel and shaft and pour yourself into car upside down. Just make sure you got all your tools.
The pin that holds in the pedal was tight so I had to "finess" it out. Once out it was clear that it was binding in the pedal. Upon close inspection of the pedal box assembly I noted that the hole the pin slides through to the outside of the car (close to the quadrant) was actually oblonged toward the front of the car. I got a fresh pin which was tight in the pedal hole but loose in the pedal box holes. The hole closest the center of the car was only slightly oblonged but the hole toward the outside was out about 1/16" and allowed slop in the pin. This is likely due to the amount of side load the stock assembly puts on the pedal. I am only running a SPEC stage II so not a ton of pedal pressure.
I think it will be okay with the new hydraulic setup putting the pressure on the bracket how it was designed but need to think through this evening. Also need to get a second opinion from HOWFF.
Other options may include maching a solid pin to allow bushings to be placed in the pedal box holes or swapping out the pedal box. Need to look at with a clear mind to see if getting the pedal box out is an option.
It is now easy to see why the pedal broke and the only thing I cannot figure out is why it did not break sooner. Putting the forged pedal back in and using the current setup is not an option as I would eventually wear thru the actual pedal box pin hole vs. breaking the pedal.
I am not sure if this has happened but those with some miles on the car with a forged pedal and using the FF qaudrant setup may want to check the pedal box out to make sure it is not wearing thin.
The hole is visibly oblonged but I cannot get a good picture. If I decide to swap out I will do so and post here. Will know by weekend.

[daltmcintyre]

I want to stay with a mechanical setup, so if I swap out for the forged pedal and install the “correct” quadrant will this solve the problem? What is the best quadrant setup? Does anyone have a picture of the pedal? I want to make sure I don’t need to switch out the brake pedal as well.

Thanks,
Joey

[Robert Phillips]

I'm getting ready to do the exact same upgrade! Keep the updates coming, and so far what has been the hardest part of the job?

[RGHarvey]

I'm in Joey's position - exactly. Sure hope there's a good solution that will work with the mechanical system.

[Dually]

Hardest part of job thus far was getting my 6'2" frame under the dash to do the work. Received pedal box with forged pedals from Olli today and should have remainder of parts from Forte by week end. Should know exactly whats involved by Sunday evening.

[ram_g]

Originally Posted by daltmcintyre

I want to stay with a mechanical setup, so if I swap out for the forged pedal and install the “correct” quadrant will this solve the problem? What is the best quadrant setup? Does anyone have a picture of the pedal? I want to make sure I don’t need to switch out the brake pedal as well.

Thanks,
Joey

I'm in Joey's position - exactly. Sure hope there's a good solution that will work with the mechanical system.

The only way I'm aware to do this is to go with a new or used Mustang pedal box with associated clutch quadrant. The OP is referencing the FFR supplied Wilwood pedal box that comes with the Complete Kit. I believe this is what tirod is meaning with his post a few above. If there is a forum supplier who sells an improved quadrant to go with the FFR Wilwood pedal box, this is the first I've heard of it.

[daltmcintyre]

My pedal box assembly (340-11299) actually has the forged pedals. I would definitely like to know if there is any way to do a mechanical setup before I start installing everything.

[jims09build]

[QUOTE=tirod;2713873]Background on this issue previously: Wilwood Clutch pedal broke




The simple preventative cure is don't install offset linkage to the pedal. Forum suppliers sell the correct linkage, too, which is a lot less expensive. The clutch can still be operated by cable, and the side load on the pedal corrected.

So which Vendor?

Thanks,

Jim

[Avalanche325]

I was going to use the quadrant on mine. After reading this and the links, I am seriously thinking about going hydraulic.

Funny, that I have my pedal box, but the quadrant is on back order. Maybe it's a sign.

...and I just got my dual remote resevoir bracket done, polished, sharkhided, and installed. The fittings and grommets to plumb it up arrived this morning.

Pay me now, or pay me later. Or, maybe both.

[Darren]

Just an update from my original post on where to source the parts for the hydraulic clutch.

It has been 2 seasons now and it has worked flawlessly. Effort is moderate and it is smooth as can be. No leaks or any kind of maintenance needed as one would expect.

I'm very happy with my hydraulic clutch, would do it again in a heartbeat. Love not seeing any cables whatsoever in my engine compartment (mechanical throttle linkage). It looks so clean and the operation of both is perfect.

[Robert Phillips]

I pulled out the clutch quadrant and peddle today and found a crack in the peddle where the upper bolt is used. I'm glad I caught this! Mine was close to breaking!! I'm going to hang on to this, maybe even display it on my wall as a trophy. The hardest part I ran into was removing the upper bolt in the FFR quadrant, once that is out it's not to bad! I'll keep posting my updates as they continue.