air conditioning

[Mike Smoker]

Now that my power steering is on and working, still dealing with the caster, my next thought was to somehow incorporate air conditioning on the car. My wife usually won't ride with me when its hot out. I would like to use the hydraulic pump to turn a motor and use that to turn the compressor. Only problem, I am not real versed on the ac compressor and its requirements. Is this doable? Don't know much about ac. I realize it would be easier to mount the compressor on the motor, and do things like most people do, but that takes the fun out of it. I guess I should first ask those of you that have ac, does it make a difference when riding around town? Thanks for your input, Mike

[d42davis]

Yes doable but extremely impractical.

[2FAST4U]

Waste of time.

[bmcgarry67]

I am new here but I am always amazed when people speak so matter of factly about a topic without considering that they may not be the most knowledgeable about the topic. Two members from very mild climates telling someone from Georgia that air conditioning is a waste of time and money simply seems illogical to me.

Mine is under construction so I will answer with past experience from other convertibles that I have owned while living in the Southeast.
You asked about "around town." The answer is yes.
If you are in a hot climate, and if you are in an urban area, then yes it makes a huge difference.

The commute to my office is 13 miles and takes 75 minutes in the Florida sun during tourist season. At stop lights and while going slowly, it makes a big difference in 90 degree temperatures.

At 70 mph, it is like throwing a handful of sand onto a beach. It may be doing something but you probably won't be able to tell.

[Dan Babb]

When moving at speed and if you are wearing shorts, point the vent down between the legs. Its an effective ball cooler and it does make a differene in your comfort.

Is your car all done or in build stage? Its a royal pain doing a retro fit.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by bmcgarry67

I am new here but I am always amazed when people speak so matter of factly about a topic without considering that they may not be the most knowledgeable about the topic. Two members from very mild climates telling someone from Georgia that air conditioning is a waste of time and money simply seems illogical to me.

I believe they were refering to his question about not driving the compressor off the engine not A/C being a waste of time.

I've thought of putting A/C on mine but mounting the evap unit is where you'll have trouble. If you have wipers under the hood is just about out. Theres not enough room under the dash unless you use the firewall foward kit. I have thought of mounting it in the trunk and mounting the vents between the seats but then it would only be effective with a top and side windows.

[Mike Smoker]

This summer, there were times when I dreaded driving the car because of the heat. It might be a waste of time, but if it makes the car more comfortable, why not? I have 2 layers of insulation on the transmission tunnel, the floor, footboxes, and the sides under the door. The problem seems to be no airflow in the footboxes, and only hot air available to circulate in the footboxes. I have tried Earl's vent fans and motors, they do some good on the passenger side, but I don't see much effect on the drivers side. I ended up using the switch and wiring for the power steering relay. The car is finished except for under door carpet, and the never ending polishing. I don't know I'll ever be done with that. There was a thread not long ago about someone putting a vent beside the gas pedal. Likened it to a blowtorch on his ankle. I made some vents , but haven't put them in yet. I don't mind backing up to go forward with the car. If the body has to come off again, thats part of the fun and learning new things. I build parts for race cars everyday, but to build roadcars is a new challenge. Thanks, Mike

[KC Wildcat]

Nobody is saying don't do A/C. It is a nice option - especially if you put a top on the car.

What the d42davis & 2FAST are talking about is using the hydralic pump (PS) to drive a compressor or drive a motor to drive the compressor. That is making things more complicated for no benefit. That is what they are expressing their opinion on. I do not know d42, but I can tell you 2FAST is very experienced, has built both a gorgeous FFR and a GT40. He is a wealth of knowledge and experience.

[Greg_M]

AC is nice to have at speeds under 40 mph. It's especially nice in traffic jams on summer days. If you have a large rad and high capacity fan, it will have no adverse effect on engine cooling.

Greg

[d42davis]

Yes doable: In theory, you can get a hydraulic pump to drive a hydraulic motor. I'm not sure where you would find one big enough to drive the AC compressor. Possibly off a Caterpillar.

but extremely impractical: Space for all the parts would be a problem. The pump would gobble up lots of HP.

If you are starting from scratch with AC, look at the Whitby option.

My reaction has nothing to do with the weather in Connecticut.

[CraigS]

I installed the Whitby system in my MkI when it was being sold by another vender. Works very well. The bracket I used is like the one in the Whitby pic where the compressor is on top and a PS pump from a 99 Explorer hangs below it. This PS pump is nice since it uses a remote reservoir and you can cut the spring to lower the pressure just like we do to mustang pumps.

[Drop Zone]

I have the Vintage Air A/C & heater. In the Florida summer time it is damn hot out and sitting in traffic or even going to to local store you will benifit from the A/C. I would do it. I have the Billett Specialties front assy and have the unit mounted on the firewall in a regular firewall as I have the large oval air filter for the engine and a forward fire wall just didn't work. It's your ride do what you want with it. You will be happy that you did it.

[Mike Smoker]

After doing some more research on the internet, there are several 12 volt units that might be usable. Mount them in the trunk, run vents to the back wall, and attach hoses . Then you could direct airflow wherever or just stick it in your pants. I don't want people to think I'm nuts, just think out of the box a little. I guess you could do the same with a standard compressor, and mount the blower motor in the trunk. Long lines would be the only drawback. Something to think about.

[GWL]

I have got to stay out of the sun so I will at least have a soft top and possibly a hard top. Thus the A/C unit for comfort and for defrost when closed up and driving in the rain. I will be driving in the rain.

Whitby's new A/C and heater is a very good unit. Very large and very doable with windshield wipers and without the firewall forward kit. In fact, it wouldn't work with the forward firewall.

Whitby's just picked up this unit for sale which is partly or all made by Vintage Air and used to be sold under another name.

Here is the hole cut in the firewall for the unit.


A/C unit mounted in the firewall


My firewall is different than others and puts the unit about 1/2" forward. I mounted a mocked up engine to check for clearances and it all fit. I now have a mirrored stainless insulated box around the unit seen here.


I have not dealt with it yet but the space between the dash and firewall will be real tight. Two tubes for defrost and I think three for the cockpit.

This picture is behind the firewall without the blower unit mounted. Note my firewall has three layers. First .090" firewall, 10mm Pyrogel insulation and then .050" mirrored stainless steel. This is what puts my evaporator/heating exchanger into the engine compartment by about 1/2" as mentioned above.


I have mocked up my windshield wipers and everything does fit. Tight but it does fit.

George

[Richard Oben]

North Racecars Air Conditioning Solutions

Another option. Richard.

[CRZN 427]

Originally Posted by Richard Oben

North Racecars Air Conditioning Solutions

Another option. Richard.

I have the one refered to here, just got it charged, and it puts out some seroius cool air.

I mounted mine in the top of the passenger foot box with custom made ducting to get the vents above the transmission, in the middle of the car, and to have the defroster vents also come from the middle. That left me plenty of room for the gauges and other items on the drivr side and a full glove box on the passenger side.

I'll add pictures if anyone, who has not already seen it, wants a better visual.

Regards, Rick.

[Mike Smoker]

Alright, so after more research on the internet, I have deduced that the hydraulic motor is not going to be practical. A 5 hp pump requires more pressure and gpm than my power steering pump is capable of. It was a good idea though. I guess 2fastforme was right. Maybe a more technical response than "waste of time" would have saved me some time on the internet. Not his job to save my time, but might be more appreciated. I still think the evaporator and blower motor in the trunk is a good idea. That way, can run the duct under the seats with a false floor, and blow the air into the footwell area. Maybe even ac the seats. I really don't want to mount the unit on the firewall, as my master cylinders are there, along with wipers. Having things hidden is more on my agenda. Oh well, thanks for the responses so far, MIke

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by GWL

Whitby's new A/C and heater is a very good unit. Very large and very doable with windshield wipers and without the firewall forward kit. In fact, it wouldn't work with the forward firewall.



George

George I was going to PM you but figure there might be other guys out there with this same question. I am not sure if I am suppose to start another thread or add to this one as I see people apologizing for hijacking a thread. I do not full understand all the proper etiquette of forums so anyone please feel free to tell me if this should a separate thread

You mentioned the Whitby unit (which I was or am planning on buying) would not work with a Firewall Forward kit, which I already have installed in my car. Is that b/c of the engine size you are running? I am planning a 302 or 351 with a MassFlo. I called Jeff at Whitby's but he was not sure. Any ideas?

[GWL]

Sal,

I think your question does fit within this thread so I'll go ahead and answer it.

I was told by Nick who sort of sold the unit through Gas-N, a previous vendor, that it would not work.

I have a picture somewhere of my 302 with EFI installed for fitting and will post it later. It was close with the firewall I have, so it may or may not be a problem with yours. Are you using EFI or Carb? Using a carb will allow more room but it may then depend on the air filter you will be using.

I'll post that picture later tonight.

George

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by GWL

Sal,

I think your question does fit within this thread so I'll go ahead and answer it.

I was told by Nick who sort of sold the unit through Gas-n-Go a previous vendor that it would not work.

I have a picture somewhere of my 302 with EFI installed for fitting and will post it later. It was close with the firewall I have, so it may or may not be a problem with yours. Are you using EFI or Carb. Using a carb will allow more room but it may then depend on the air filter you will be using.

I'll post that picture later tonight.

George

Thanks - I am EFI

[GWL]

It is a very close fit with EFI. Closer than I realized.

In these two picture the engine is not level.




In this picture it is level, but I had better hook up a transmission and fit the engine block and transmission to make sure I've got the proper room. As I think about it I don't really know what level means until I have a transmission hooked up and have worked out the pinion angle with the drive shaft.


Here is a recent picture with my evaporator insulated and covered up. I will put in that engine block and transmission to see what room I don't have. If there is interference I can just modify the insulated box where the intake manifold bolt would hit.


I'll PM Whitby's to let them know about this close fitting. I already PM'ed them.

I also looked at your build thread and it looks like you have not yet riveted the forward firewall into place. Or have you? Can you do without the forward firewall? Maybe Richards A/C unit would fit with the forward firewall, but I'm thinking you already have the Whitby unit. What to do???

George

Mike, I hope this discussion is helping you understand some of the details of installing an A/C system and we have not deviated too far from your original questions.

[KC Wildcat]

I would think through that false floor. The seats mount to the floor - or on very low profile sliders. There really is not much room to run ducting. Raising the seats would most likely put your head above the windshield (some tall guys complain about that with their seats mounted on the floor). You also have think about how that changes the angle to get your knees under the dash and steering wheel.

I guess my question is what are you trying to solve or accomplish with your A/C? There are a number of proven solutions - Do you have a need that one of them does not solve? Are you just looking to do something to be unique? I am just trying to understand where you are coming from.

[Mike Smoker]

You misunderstood what I meant on the false floor. Just from under the seat forward, raise the floor about an inch, have a vent hose under the seat, and blow air into the foot box. No one will ever know its there. Yea, I like trying to come up with different solutions for the same problems. If everyone did the same things, nothing would ever change. Maybe I make things better, maybe worse. If it's worse, it's not like things can't be changed again. I try not to cut things up too much, and usually think things through before messing up. It's more fun to be creative than just bolt things on and have them work. And I learn something new everytime. My next project is to build an aluminum body for the cobra. I think I'll learn a lot if that ever happens. Mike