TKO 500 vs. 600?

[Sdtoothdoc]

I'm just starting my MKIV build with coyote set-up. I've heard a few things about 5 speed transmission choices and still not sure which is best? I've heard that the 600 is more notchy to shift vs the 500. Someone else said it shouldn't be since the 600 just has a different input shaft? Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance...

[2FAST4U]

The 600 has a better 1st gear ratio

[FFR5452]

If you're running a 400 horse coyote engine, you have other transmission choices besides the tko's. The tko 600 has the most usable first gear, but will never be as smooth as a t-5.

[Mike Forte]

Hi,
Many factors need to be figured into "whats best". The rearends with the 3.31:1 gear ratio works very well with the TKO-500 and the 3.27 1st gear. Either model will work, it just comes down to math. Do you want more reducing to get it going quicker, or a longer 1st gear? I sell both and either model is right, depending on what you want.
Remember, "gearing is a substitute for horsepower".
If you need a Tremec transmission, I try to stock all of them. I will remove the tailshaft boss off for free if you ask me to do so.

Originally Posted by Sdtoothdoc

I'm just starting my MKIV build with coyote set-up. I've heard a few things about 5 speed transmission choices and still not sure which is best? I've heard that the 600 is more notchy to shift vs the 500. Someone else said it shouldn't be since the 600 just has a different input shaft? Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance...

[Cone Basher]

I recomed you talk to Mike at Fote's Forte's Parts Connection - TREMEC, FACTORY FIVE COBRA PARTS, FORD RACING PARTS, FFR, MUSTANG, TRANSMISSIONS, T-56, T-5, TKO, TR-3550 and discuss the specifics of your car with him. He can provide you with everything to connect your engine to the trans. Clutch, bellhousing, clutch fork,correct beaing, clutch cable (if you need it), correct spedo gear for your trans, poly mounts for motor and trans etc. He understands these cars and knows what works with which parts. It may cost you a few more $$ but if you get it from him it will work as specified. I got all parts to connect my Roush 402-R from him except the clutch (Mc Cloud) and flywheel that came with my motor and nothing has failed yet. If you need to order anything I would contact the forum vendors first as they know these cars.
FYI If you want to search for something do this: go to google and enter site:ffcars.com then what you are looking for like site:ffcars.com TKO mid shift
HTH
CB
HTH
CB

[CraigS]

The 500 has stock mustang gearing while the 600 has optional 1st and 5th ratios. Wish I had a 600.

[SJDave]

I've had both, I prefer the 500. Why?

1) First is a bit lower and makes it easier to start on a hill and yes produces more rear wheel torque for impressive launches against the pesky Audi S4's who want to pick a race all the time for some reason. Displacement envy??
Noise envy? If you plan on doing track days, you never use first after enteriong the track, so the ratio doesn't matter.

2) Second gear spacing is perfect in my opinion for a bit of brisk acceleration on an on ramp or just crusing around town. Also good for the track and hairpin turns.

3) Third is a nice spacing for street or track from second

4) 4th is a nice spacing for street or track from third. With a 3:55 rear end at 6800rpm this is 148 mph! YIKES!! Most tracks I go to in NorCal I never get above 130, so 5th is not an issue. And...do you really want to go over 148 in this car without race seats, hans device, extinguisher system, full roll cage..etc etc etc.

5) 5th is an overdrive....highway cruising only. With 3:55 rear end ends up being around 2185 rpm at 70 mph...quiet and good on mileage. With TKO 600 and the road race 5th at 0.8....your 2570 RPM on the highway...more rpm then you need especially with your Coyote smooth running powerplant.

So yes the TKO600 has more splines on the input shaft (24) versus the TKO 500 at (10 spline)....but your fine with either input shaft with your engine. Not an issue.

Shifting - They are both equally notchy in my opinion, is it a non starter..NO..you get used to it. Royal Purple Syncromesh seems to help.

Buying from Forte...Yes, I second that thought. He'll do the midshift conversion for you too. My interior with the midshift on the TKO 500...Forte shift lever too.

[Mike Forte]

Hi,
The TKO-500 is available with a 26 spline input. I sell them but they are on order right now. I do have the 10 spline TKO-500 and Both of the TKO-600's in stock.

[Redshift]

I have a TKO 500 (wide ratio), and the spacing seems good. I have a 3.08 rear end, but would like to go to 3.27 or 3.55. I think if you have an engine with a narrow torque curve you want the close ratio, and with a wider torque curve, a wide ratio transmission.

With the wide ratio, when you shift at 5500, for example, you will be at the following RPM after the shift:
2nd -3330
3rd - 3722
4th - 4104
5th - 3740

With the narrow ratio:
2nd -3579
3rd - 3879
4th - 4104
5th - 4510

My engine feels real good from 3000 to 5500, so I like being a little bit lower in my torque band after the shift to use more of that range. JMHO

[Mike Forte]

Hi,
Yesterday I got 5 Tremec $100.00 rebate coupons. I have these Tremec rebate coupons available for new Tremec transmission package orders starting today. If you want the tailboss removed, please ask us to do so.

[Bill_VA]

Mike, please tell us more about the new T-56 Magnum 6-speed. Gear ratio choices, physical dimensions (shorter than previous versions?), etc.

[KGS365]

first Kudos to Fortes he will take care of you!....but for $100 more go with the 600!

[snakeboost]

Is based off of the TR6060 from the Camaros/Challengers/Chargers & some Mustangs!

It is 34.5" long from block to yoke. Still longer then a TKO. Crossmember needs to be modified. It is also physically larger in the tunnel [think of it like this Mike is the TKO I'm the Magnum!] Gear ratios are: 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.80/.63 for the more usefull or 2.97/2.10/1.46/1.00/.74/.50 optional [this ratio is the OEM style for emissions & milage but would also work with higher number ratio rear gears 4.10/4.11/4.56/5.13ect]
I also believe you still need IRS in the rear as the driveshaft is too short.

Steve

[Fezzek]

What does larger in the tunnel mean? Do I need to cut and re-weld the tunnel?

Tremec and FFR both told me that the magnum wouldn't fit in the FFR cars.

I get more confused the more people I talk to.

Martin

Originally Posted by snakeboost

Is based off of the TR6060 from the Camaros/Challengers/Chargers & some Mustangs!

It is 34.5" long from block to yoke. Still longer then a TKO. Crossmember needs to be modified. It is also physically larger in the tunnel [think of it like this Mike is the TKO I'm the Magnum!] Gear ratios are: 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.80/.63 for the more usefull or 2.97/2.10/1.46/1.00/.74/.50 optional [this ratio is the OEM style for emissions & milage but would also work with higher number ratio rear gears 4.10/4.11/4.56/5.13ect]
I also believe you still need IRS in the rear as the driveshaft is too short.

Steve

[mildlyamused]

PM sharkx....he has a T56 and it rocks!!!!

A little modification to the trans member he said...but well worth it.

[BigLeo69]

Originally Posted by 2FAST4U

The 600 has a better 1st gear ratio

i will second that i run it with a 3.73 ass-end.

if you get one make sure you put it in with-in a year of warranty for safe measure

[snakeboost]

They fit the tunnel without changing anything. BUT the e-brake stuff may need relocation [not the handle just the other stuff]

Steve

[JeepFlyer]

Originally Posted by BigLeo69

i will second that i run it with a 3.73 ass-end.

if you get one make sure you put it in with-in a year of warranty for safe measure

Tremec says 180 days on the warranty from date of purchase.

For this exact reason I'm waiting to buy mine until I get further along in my build. There's no use installing the motor and trans in the dead of winter. Plus I'm probably dumb enough to go drive it regardless of how cold it is outside haha

[CHOTIS BILL]

There is also a new 5 speed being tested that is good for 700#/ft of torque, is all syncro even reverse and will bold in place of the TKO 600.It is being sold by Keisler and is called the SS700. It should be ready for delivery in October.

Bill Lomenick

[snakeboost]

Originally Posted by CHOTIS BILL

There is also a new 5 speed being tested that is good for 700#/ft of torque, is all syncro even reverse and will bold in place of the TKO 600.It is being sold by Keisler and is called the SS700. It should be ready for delivery in October.

Bill Lomenick

And if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you................

that's on both of those statments

Steve

[CHOTIS BILL]

This is just what I have been reading about what is the real story?

Bill Lomenick

[BigLeo69]

Originally Posted by CHOTIS BILL

This is just what I have been reading about what is the real story?

Bill Lomenick

its made in the USA by legend has BH bolt patterns for all the big three input shaft can change out, looks to be similar to the TKO the tailshaft shifter is to the drivers side, i do wonder if it can be top-loaded with a mid or forward shifter.
700ftlbs
new to the tranny world.

[Mike Forte]

Hi Bill,
I know of many customers with a T-56 installed in their FFR. Not any that I've sold a Magnum.
Note:
The T-56 Magnum is physically the same size as a production T-56 from a Cobra Mustang, Camaro and Viper.

Originally Posted by Bill_VA

Mike, please tell us more about the new T-56 Magnum 6-speed. Gear ratio choices, physical dimensions (shorter than previous versions?), etc.

[CHOTIS BILL]

BigLeo69,
That is the same info I have read.

Snakeboost,
Which two statements of the several I made are you referring to? And what are the real facts? I would appreciate any additional information.

Bill Lomenick

[snakeboost]

1] developing a transmission is both engineering $$$ and prototype $$$ for that reason mostly OEM units are improved upon & sold as "performance transmissions"
a; TKO is a much modified toploader with a 5th gear & other improvments
b; G-force / Levy ect are Modified T5 transmissions utilizing better materials and stronger cases
c; Mcleod transmission [when it comes - out seepoint #1] will be a Chrysler 833 transmission using better materials & different shifting [side vs top]
d; Magnums are derived from TR6060 transmissions used in the Camaro / Challenger / Charger / 2005-2010 Mustangs
e; Keisler's first foray into his own transmission is a modified T45 with better materials & a different case

2] Getting technical the gear spacing on a transmission = how large the gears can be = how much torque capacity it can handle overall. TKO has the largest of the above transmissions [Magnum not included in that]



Steve

[snakeboost]

There is also a new 5 speed being tested that is good for 700#/ft of torque

Prove it - their last unit was "rated at 500ft lbs" the few that were recieved were found to not handle that rating & left their owners wanting to say in the least.

Tremec TKOs & Magnums are rated using a strain gauge on the input shaft. The TKO breaks in 5th gear [the weakest] at 500/600ftlbs. The Magnum breaks in 1st gear at 750ftlbs. As an aside the Coyote Getrag 6 speed snaps @ 385ftlbs in 4th gear[the strongest 1:1 ratio]


It should be ready for delivery in October.

I'm still waiting for the Mcleod unit to become available!

I have customers who are still waiting for RS500 units from Keisler as well. Knowing the industry & watching the economy I bet 2 years from October. It will be at SEMA in Oct. but not available for another 2 years after that

[CHOTIS BILL]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess time will tell.

Bill Lomenick