3-Link adjustments, passenger side sticks out further than drivers side

[ZoaFan08]

I have searched the forums but I am still at a loss at how I adjust the suspension. THe passenger side sticks out more than the drivers side and you can also see that it is slightly angled forward.

What adjustments do I need to do square up the tires and angles?

[Bill Waters]

By "angled forward," do you mean that there seems to be excessive toe-in when viewed from the passenger side? if so, and if the tire is, as you report, sticking out excessively on that side, adjusting the Panhard bar will handle your problem.

Bill

[Bill Waters]

In re-reading your post, it struck me that my saying "adjust the panhard bar" may not be too helpful.

The left and right-ward adjustment of the rear axle is accomplished by adjusting your Panhard bar. Just loosen the jam nuts on either end of the bar. The threaded rod ends which attach the Panhard bar to the chassis and axle mounting points, respectively, are threaded such that twisting the bar will move the axle side to side. Since the axle actually swings in the horizontal plane around a point defined by the theoretical intersection of the two lower control arms, adjustment of the Panhard bar also theoretically affects rear tracking. This can be sorted through with your alignment guy.

Not sure if this helps or not.

Bill

[Dr Stebo]

Once you get it visually centered then with some strings pulled taught front to back at wheel centers. I used jack stands with the help of a lovely assistant, measure out about 1.5" from front and rear wheel lip to string. Having someone ever so slightly move front jack stand in or out until both measurements are identical. Then you should be able to go to front wheels and if properly aligned those distances should be equal left side front to right side front, front and back to wheel lip. Of course front of front wheel distance should be slightly more distance to string to allow for your 1/16" toe on so about 1/32" on each side. I hope my lower control arms worked well for you?

[ZoaFan08]

Bill, thanks for the info. When it comes to setting up suspensions I am dumb as a bat, I never got it.

I Plan on having a 4 wheel alignment done but I have no idea what I need to ask or tell the tech. Do I need to take the car to a special shop or just any alignment shop?

[NiceGuyEddie]

first things first... be sure you are aligning to the frame and not the body. it probably won't be perfect to the body, but it must be perfect aligned to the frame in any case. maybe blocks of wood cut on a chopsaw can help you out with this. we'll work on the body if needed.

second thing second, if you can get a basic alignment yourself, it's really worth your time to drive the 70 miles to Marlo's in Chatsworth. he's done loads of Factory Fives and has be featured in magazines more times than can be counted.

Marlo's Frame & Alignment

.

[CraigS]

Or you could host a build/alignment party and get help from some of the local FFR guys. You would learn a ton and have fun doing it all for the cost of a couple of pizzas and beers.

[Bill Waters]

Agree with Eddie, inasmuch as you need to get things visually centered and then get the help of an alignment guy. If you can't get to a known resource, such as those Eddie suggests, ask your alignment guy if he's experienced with doing a four-wheel alignment on a car with three-link rear and adjustable -sleeve front upper control arms. In our neck of the woods, race car suspensions are very common and alignment shops are not in the least flustered by our setup.

Bill

[ZoaFan08]

Thanks for the help, when I measured the alignment compared to the frame I was measuring from the round tubes to the center of the rearend. The driver side was 9.75" and passenger was 9.5", should it be exact or are we talking ballpark?

Eddie I would love to go to your guy but I could never make it that far, work is too busy right now and I'm working Saturdays. I pretty much have after 8 and Sunday's to work on the car.

Since the front end has been aligned already it should be mostly the rear correct? I've searched but I can't find the thread where it was suggested to loosen certain bolts before taking it to a alignment?

[NiceGuyEddie]

I won't know the measurement numbers, but I'd imagine it's hard to measure from the round tubes to the center of the rear end.

try the flat, vertical parts of the end of the rear tubes to the axle, and then the upper part of the inner rim to the frame. that will give you four points. I got everything to within 1/16" with my 5-link.

I could not imagine loosening certain bolts for the alignment guy, they should know which ones to loosen for adjustment, and know what torque spec to put everything to.

keep us posted, try to put up some pics.

[canuck1]

Originally Posted by ZoaFan08

Thanks for the help, when I measured the alignment compared to the frame I was measuring from the round tubes to the center of the rearend. The driver side was 9.75" and passenger was 9.5", should it be exact or are we talking ballpark?

Eddie I would love to go to your guy but I could never make it that far, work is too busy right now and I'm working Saturdays. I pretty much have after 8 and Sunday's to work on the car.

Since the front end has been aligned already it should be mostly the rear correct? I've searched but I can't find the thread where it was suggested to loosen certain bolts before taking it to a alignment?

I measured from the inside of the wheel edge to the outside of the frame tubes on each side. Yes, I made sure they were the same. You will still want to ask for a proper 4 wheel alignment as these cars are VERY sensitive to small adjustments. It will be drivable getting it close in your garage, but I noticed a vast improvement after the alignment shop made a small correction.

I think (?) the bolts you are referring to that need to be loosened before adjustment are the ones that are on either end of the front upper control arm adjusting sleeves. If you simply crank on the sleeves when adjusting camber and caster without first loosening these bolts, the pivot points on the cross shaft can become cocked and prematurely wear out the pivots and/or cross shaft. Yes, any alignment tech worth his salt SHOULD know this... no harm in mentioning it though .

Sean

[johnnybgoode]

I just checked and made a slight adjustment to my 3 link after installing a new panhard bar and cleaning up/doing maint on the rest of the rear end. To check/centere the rearend I held a straight edge (a 2 foot level) across the front (sidewall) of the tire and then passed a yardstick through one of the windows in the wheels to hit the 4" round tube and then measured to the edge of the level. I found I was a 1/4" off side to side so just adjusted this with the panhard bar (I put the rear axle on a set of jack stands first). Worked great and was really simple. I have 17" wheels so this may be more difficult if you have 15's? An idea for what it is worth.

PS. I also used the "string method" to check that the rear end was square to the fronts and to also set the front end toe and to center the steering wheel. I was amazed at how accurate this method can be. After I had laid out and aligned the strings to the rear wheels I dropped a plumb line to check for squareness and was amazed that it was bang on. The steering wheel is now perfectly centered and the car track very straight and true.

[ZoaFan08]

Originally Posted by NiceGuyEddie

I won't know the measurement numbers, but I'd imagine it's hard to measure from the round tubes to the center of the rear end.

try the flat, vertical parts of the end of the rear tubes to the axle, and then the upper part of the inner rim to the frame. that will give you four points. I got everything to within 1/16" with my 5-link.

I could not imagine loosening certain bolts for the alignment guy, they should know which ones to loosen for adjustment, and know what torque spec to put everything to.

keep us posted, try to put up some pics.

Thanks for the help Eddy. I am going to call your guy today and see if he will accept the car without me there, if so I will have AAA drop the car off and then pick it back up.

I'll snap some pictures tonight, I'm going to use some PVC and mark it and see. As of right I believe my panhand bar is just about as short as I could get it.

Originally Posted by canuck1

I measured from the inside of the wheel edge to the outside of the frame tubes on each side. Yes, I made sure they were the same. You will still want to ask for a proper 4 wheel alignment as these cars are VERY sensitive to small adjustments. It will be drivable getting it close in your garage, but I noticed a vast improvement after the alignment shop made a small correction.

I think (?) the bolts you are referring to that need to be loosened before adjustment are the ones that are on either end of the front upper control arm adjusting sleeves. If you simply crank on the sleeves when adjusting camber and caster without first loosening these bolts, the pivot points on the cross shaft can become cocked and prematurely wear out the pivots and/or cross shaft. Yes, any alignment tech worth his salt SHOULD know this... no harm in mentioning it though .

Sean

Sean yes those were the bolts, I know I made note of it somewhere but now I have so many notes they all just blend together . I just remember people having their alignment done some people not loosening those bolts.

Originally Posted by johnnybgoode

I just checked and made a slight adjustment to my 3 link after installing a new panhard bar and cleaning up/doing maint on the rest of the rear end. To check/centere the rearend I held a straight edge (a 2 foot level) across the front (sidewall) of the tire and then passed a yardstick through one of the windows in the wheels to hit the 4" round tube and then measured to the edge of the level. I found I was a 1/4" off side to side so just adjusted this with the panhard bar (I put the rear axle on a set of jack stands first). Worked great and was really simple. I have 17" wheels so this may be more difficult if you have 15's? An idea for what it is worth.

PS. I also used the "string method" to check that the rear end was square to the fronts and to also set the front end toe and to center the steering wheel. I was amazed at how accurate this method can be. After I had laid out and aligned the strings to the rear wheels I dropped a plumb line to check for squareness and was amazed that it was bang on. The steering wheel is now perfectly centered and the car track very straight and true.

I have not checked distance from front tires, what adjustment changes this? There are only two bars to adjust on the 3-link correct? Panhand bar will change rear end from right to left and the upper bar changes the pinion angle, but what changes the distance from front to back?

Also in regards to right height I always see people recommending 4", is that 4" from the top of the tire to the lip of the fender or the top of the tire to the underside of the fender? As of right now I have mine set where I like it but the driver side spring is drastically lower than the passenger side, is this normal? Do I set ride height first and then adjust the 3-link or other way around?

[ZoaFan08]

Eddie, not the picture you expected but since you haven't seen here yet

[ZoaFan08]

Ok I found a local shop who actually knows exactly what I was talking about regarding the alignment. They asked me if I have specifications or not and I told them I am nto sure, do I need to give them any specifications or just tell them to do a 4 wheel alignment?

[JKleiner]

Manual steering right? If so have them give you 1/2 degree negative camber, 3 degrees positive caster and 1/16" to 3/32" toe IN. Got that? TOE IN, NOT OUT!

Cheers,
Jeff

[ZoaFan08]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

Manual steering right? If so have them give you 1/2 degree negative camber, 3 degrees positive caster and 1/16" to 3/32" toe IN. Got that? TOE IN, NOT OUT!

Cheers,
Jeff

No I have power steering, that is exactly what they were asking me but I didn't know off hand.

[NiceGuyEddie]

F.Y.I. - that guy Marlo recently sent out an email to all his customers, he said something about a family member needing money for his medicine and would appreciate all business.

i am sure he will do your car without you there as long as you can get it there.

it was only $85 for the front, plus five dollars to check the 5-link... which i did almost perfectly myself.

he was recommended to me by our forum friend No Tread Tommy G. it was my third alignment, and the FIRST to get it right!!!!

(he does not use computers.)

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by ZoaFan08

No I have power steering, that is exactly what they were asking me but I didn't know off hand.

With power steering you can keep the same camber and toe in numbers that I mentioned earlier but go up to 8 degrees positive caster. To get in that caster range safely you are going to need to replace the sleeves on the UCA forward links.

READ THIS!

Hold off on the alignment until you have them installed. Believe me, it will be worth the wait for all of the good things more positive caster does.

Good luck,
Jeff