Valve train help

[Tatika]

I should have left well enough alone, but I didn't. My car started and ran really well except the valve train was somewhat noisy. So I decided I'd adjust the valves - hydraulic with Comp Cams 1.6 roller rockers.

It seems there are a number of methods to adjust valves. I got TDC on number 1 cylinder, loosened off the both intake and exhaust rockers, let sit loose for about a minute, then took out the lash by tightening just to the point where the push rods start to tighten when rolling in fingers. Tighten a further half turn and lock down. Repeat this through the firing order. I also checked the compression on each cylinder to ensure I had not over tightened, all good and even at about 185. I also reset the timing at 12* with the spout out.

The valve noise is still there, probably worse than it was. I can put up with the noise if that is just the way it is, but now the car does not start near as well as it did. Prior, it would start right up, no thought of even hesitating ... every time. Now it takes a fair bit of cranking and then it sort of stumbles, farts a bit and then starts. It also seems that it doesn't have quite as much snap when you punch it a bit, that might just be me though.

What have I done, and what do I need to do to correct?

Thanks in advance

Greg

[canuck1]

Hi Greg,

Your valvesadjustment is probably fine, I bet your timing is what isn't quite right.

I would double check the distributor didn't move after you set it. It's happened to me before, I won't even suggest the dumb stuff like "are you SURE spout was out when you checked timing?" or "did you put the spout back IN when you finished?"

Sean

[narve00]

Back when I replaced my heads I did a bit of research on finding 0 lash. The push rod spin method was not recommended since modern materials and lubricants will allow them to turn farily freely even when they are tight.

Roller rockers tend to be noisy, sounds like a sewing machine.

Also take a close look at the parts through the entire range of motion. I found interference between the rockers and valve springs when I swapped heads.

[Big Blocker]

On the dizzy moving . . . we've all done that a time or two.

Recheck your initial timing, you could be a tooth off if you pulled the dizzy.

HTH

Doc

[tjmotter]

Originally Posted by Tatika

The valve noise is still there, probably worse than it was.

What have I done, and what do I need to do to correct?

Thanks in advance

Greg

Hope your problem isn't the same as mine but after trying every other solution I finally removed the intake and checked my lifters. Brand new Ford Racing roller lifters and it turned out I had a bad one. The symptoms were the standard ticking noise at idle but a loud clack at rev's above 3K RPM. Everything looked ok but after taking each lifter apart and reassembling them I found that without oil, all but one would allow me to push it in about 1/8 of an inch. The bad one would allow me to compress it close to 1/2 inch. The inside bore of that lifter was larger than the others. I replaced the lifter and the car runs great with very little valve train noise.

HTH
Todd

[Rod]

Hi Greg:

I used the technique described in this post and it worked well. Adjusting Stud Mount Rockers - and checking pushrod length.

You might have over tightened some lash settings.

I also have an adjustable pushrod length checking tool if you want to check it? Lemeno.

I hope Friday goes well for you.

[canuck1]

Greg,

Are you using oil restricting pushrods? Some builders prefer this type to keep the more oil in the bottom end. They will make roller rockers seem a little noisier.

Your comment about seeming to have a little less snap than before points to timing as well. If the distributor has moved, engine rotation will retard your timing.

I have been known to be wrong before!


Sean



Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

[Tatika]

Well I thought I had it licked. Started right at the beginning and adjusted the valves as in my first post above only this time went to 3/4 turn and locked down - engine builders recommendation.

Got it all done and back together, turned the key and it started right up like it used to. Tried that several more times and again, just like it used to. Took it out for a little run up the mountain, bingo, just like it was Doesn't seem to lack power.

Was typing a long winded explanation of what I did and then just before I hit post, thought I'd check how it starts - cranks and cranks, farts a bit and then catches. WTF?

I understand there are a number of different methods suggested for setting lash. It seems to me that first, it is necessary for each lifter to be on the base circle of the cam. It is at this point that there would be the most "lash" that needs to be zeroed or adjusted out of the valves. At TDC on the compression stroke of each cylinder are both lifters not fully seated on the base circle of the cam lobe?

For example #1 cylinder will be on TDC when the timing marks on the harmonic balancer are at 0 AND the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire. At this point both the intake and exhaust valves of #1 are as closed as they are going to get - i.e. both lifters for #1 are on the base circle of the cam lobe. 1/4 turn of the crank and you have TDC on the next cylinder in the firing order and so on (13726548).

This issue of not firing right up is unnerving - I have never had any concerns if it would start, now I'm not too sure.

So, I'm thinking I'll play with the timing a bit. What should it be set at? 10, 12, 14???

Thanks for your help guys.

Greg

Rod: Friday is now looking like Tuesday.

[Dan Babb]

Not to long ago, someone posted a template that you could tape to your distributor when the engine was at TDC. It had all the positions marked so you'd know where the top of each cylinder is.

I just tried to find the post with it and struck out. Maybe someone else that saved it will chime in.

Unless your balancer is marked, you could have been off a bit on some of the TDC estimates if you were just turning it over by hand.

Just seems like the problems started when you were adjusting the rockers, so it's gotta be problems with the adjustments.

[Tatika]

Originally Posted by Dan Babb

Unless your balancer is marked, you could have been off a bit on some of the TDC estimates if you were just turning it over by hand.

Just seems like the problems started when you were adjusting the rockers, so it's gotta be problems with the adjustments.

You are absolutely right, problems started when I messed with the valve adjustment.

I'm pretty certain I've got TDC on each cylinder. Starting with #1 as described above (balancer on 0, rotor pointing at #1 plug wire (actually slightly past, not sure if that is an issue). When would the plug fire?

Rotate the engine 1/4 turn should put me at TDC on #3 cylinder. Move another quarter turn and so on. I did mark the pulley to get 1/4 turn reference marks.

I don't mind starting again, but doing the same thing? Am I missing something?

Greg

[thebicman]

Try adjusting like this.
Roller rockers 1.6 install advice.

[Tatika]

It is so frustrating chasing after a problem and it isn't the problem you thought. It turns out the hard start problem above wasn't to do with the valve train at all - it was the freaking MSD coil .... Swapped in the old stock one (mileage unknown, but lots) and it starts right up like it used to. I have had that MSD coil sitting around for about a year but had not put it in because of the issues I read about them here. But, come on, it looks nicer than the grotty old stock one It was only put in maybe 3 months ago.

Anyways it is fixed; still have the noisy valve train though! I can take the car out and not cross my fingers every time I need to start it.

Greg