Gentlemen, I've spent several months now going through several of the more famous bodywork threads on the forum, as well as reading over several different bodywork "How To" manuals. While I'm currently away from the car for just a bit longer, I'm hoping to get your thoughts on some of the bodywork tools and supplies which worked well for you, as well as the ones that didn't. Hopefully in about a month or so I can start purchasing some of the basic tools and blocks so that when I'm able to get back to the garage, it'll be there waiting for me.
My intentions overall are to have a nicely detailed body with hidden hinges, finished fender edges, rounded cockpit edges, tail light 'padding' to match the FFR lights, hood scoop extension, and hidden mounting points on the side. I am fortunate that my home base has a new downdraft booth to paint in; hopefully I can do the bulk of the real bodywork at home and finish with the primer and paint at the shop for a dirt cheap booth fee Only catch to using their booth is we have to use Sherwin Williams stuff because nobody else has paid to do the air quality research. Not a big deal as it seems to be a pretty good system from what I've read.
So that's about it. If you guys have ny ideas on what I can do for an economical paint job (that is the key), I appreciate your thoughts and advice! I'm also open to buying partially/lightly used tools for a reasonable price.
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-Mk 3 #4900, home built '94 408W, Tremec 3550, 3.55 IRS, FFR 9"/10.5" wheels and 255/40Z17 - 315/35Z17 Nitto NT-05, ISIS...didn't follow the budget at all but having a blast. First go-kart 21 Sep 2011!
I'm done with them for now, so you are welcome to use them if you wish and return them when you are done.
Great score on the paintbooth! That will really help.
I used these items (in no particular order):
Rage Gold body filler
Slick Sand high build primer
Sanding blocks pictured
3M Dry Guidecoat (this is great for block sanding)
Variety of different grits of sandpaper - get the best you can find
Foam noodles, rolled up magazines and other oddball sanding tools for the curves. There are lots of curves
I used a 2.2 tip for the high build primer. That stuff is thick
I also used reducer for the Slick Sand. Acetone may also work
It takes a while to get the hand of it. Patience is helpful. You will likely turn lots of that filler and primer into expensive driveway dust.
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FFR #7124 Mk 3.1, Levy 5 link, LCA's & brakes, 17" Halibrands, electric PS, SAI, Eibach springs, BOSS 427w, webers, hood louvers, tilt front. Delivered 12/23/09, 1st start 02/19/12. 1st go cart 03/03/12. Titled 10/3/12.
"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like". The Federalist Patriot Build blog: www.myersfamilyffrbuild.blogspot.com
The one thing my bodywork instructor told us in college was to cut off all our fingers.
He was right, every flaw and mistake was directly related to using our fingers and not the flat of our palm. I still fight it repainting my Jeep. But, I still have fingers. I accepted my inadequacy in retaining them and compromised: Always have a pad of some sort between the abrasive and you.
I purchased a round sanding disc the same size as the commercial stick-ons I bought, and it helps a lot. It has a protruding knob on top and a flat metal disc molded in to prevent me getting my fingers anywhere near the paper. There are also long ones the same size as body sanders that use the same stick on commercial paper, great for flat sanding large areas like hoods.
Those, plus the traditional sanding blocks, and the newer grit sponges do well. Most of what someone sees in a paint job isn't the paint - it's the flat, near perfectly contoured substrate of body panel and primer. 95% of the paint job is what you do before you apply the paint.
It's no different if a plastic veneer is applied over the bodywork like an office supply van - it can only telegraph the existing underlayer, never improve on it. If the bodywork is sanded properly and prepped, it would be nearly impossible to tell whether it was $500 a gallon Ditzler or $20 Rustoleum. On the other hand, spend less than an hour knocking off the highlights, and neither could hide the incompetence.
That's not a bad thing, just a lack of experience, skill, or even knowledge. Some just don't know there is actually a standard - like the guy who sprayed his van with outdoor latex and a Wagner power painter. It had been on six months and he still hadn't razored the overspray off the windshield.
He could not shut up about how cool it was to him. I nearly offered.
It's either your fingers or your paint job, do the best you can with that decision and accept the results. I am, yes, there are flaws, but it's about keeping it from rusting this time. The next, maybe those 3M grit pads could get a nice matte red finish on a Coupe body for 6 or 8 years.
I'm certainly no expert, but did mine, I think a little over 8 years ago. I just used a cheap sanding block, like you'd find at HD (definitely agree with the fingers stuff!). I would work on a small section, spray paint it with black, lightly sand it off, anywhere I could see black spray paint, I'd fill it in with glazing putty (polyester based) and do it again until it was perfect, then move onto the next section. There were a few places that looked good to my eye and I didn't put as much effort into, and some of those places, pitted now. So, when I rebuild the car soon (it's been sitting for years now for other reasons), I'll have to put more effort into those areas. My 2 cents would be definitely don't assume any section is good, just because it looks good to your eye. Spray it, sand it and confirm. It can be tedious, but a little extra effort really goes a long way.
That looks like a great forum, I hadn't been there before and once I get a chance to get to a place with some more bandwidth, I'm going to be spending some time on there for sure. I found a few 'kit car' bodywork threads, I had forgotten about some of the older kit cars from 15-20 years ago and holy cow, I'm glad there are companies like FFR to balance out the market!
Dallas, I really appreciate your generous offer! I'll hit you up with a PM shortly, if I'm able to borrow them come this winter I will definitely take you up on that.
As for my fingers, point well received. I am totally new to the painting aspect, when I was a teen I helped a buddy restore his '84 Cherokee so I got a fair bit of experience with sanding and filler work but I definitely need a refresher. I'm only planning on working maybe 6-8 hours a week on the body so really I'm not rushing. I do want to make sure it is done right though and from a lot of the reading, it sounds like the cost is directly proportionate to quality when it comes to autobody supplies.
I'd love to hear if anybody else has other thoughts. Hopefully I'll be able to get the specs for the guns that we use before I get home, I don't expect to need my own but with everything else pretty much available through the shop or through Dallas' offer and a few odds and ends here and there, paying for a good gun and buffer might be smart, yes?
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-Mk 3 #4900, home built '94 408W, Tremec 3550, 3.55 IRS, FFR 9"/10.5" wheels and 255/40Z17 - 315/35Z17 Nitto NT-05, ISIS...didn't follow the budget at all but having a blast. First go-kart 21 Sep 2011!
a trick from a body man down the road he uses paint sticks, some glued together for a wider profile and then use self stick sanding paper in a roll, i bought the dura-blocks they are sort of ok.
the paint sticks get used on edge to knock down high spots, i actually ripped some clr. pine on my table saw in lieu of the paint sticks.
i also got what the body guys will call green lead, fiberglass re-inforced bondo brand is USC Duraglass for edges and form filling
but that was back in feb. i haven't done a damn thing to the cobra since i got legal except drive it in primer
good luck Marine and get ur rear back in the States
__________________
"Torque is the grunt
that gets us going, and Horsepower
is the force that keeps us moving"
MK3.1 #6945 her name is Buffy
p/u 04/04/09 roller 08/27/09
start-up Pearl Harbor Day 12/07/10
go-cart Memorial Day 2011
body on 11/11/11 Veterans Day
all legal except paint 02/12/12
372w handbuilt
__________________
FFR #7124 Mk 3.1, Levy 5 link, LCA's & brakes, 17" Halibrands, electric PS, SAI, Eibach springs, BOSS 427w, webers, hood louvers, tilt front. Delivered 12/23/09, 1st start 02/19/12. 1st go cart 03/03/12. Titled 10/3/12.
"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like". The Federalist Patriot Build blog: www.myersfamilyffrbuild.blogspot.com
I'm only planning on working maybe 6-8 hours a week on the body so really I'm not rushing.
Expect a lot of weeks! Haha. I'm sure pros can do it a lot faster, but sadly I think i spent about 150-200 hours on body work and painting. A lot of that though was because I was using a lousy little 30g compressor to spray it and it couldn't really keep up. So, I did a few extra clear coats and wet sanded the heck out of the orange peel... Really I should have spent another 20 hours on it even though. Next time... Also, on my do it next time list, I probably would have wet sanded the clear down to 3000 grit or so even, before buffing. I think a little more would have helped as I was over reliant on sanding, but that's the good thing about clear, you can sand it out quite a bit if you add enough. Necessity probably depends on the spray, with a booth and all, I think some people can go strait to buffing without cutting it first.
Use quality materials. I had good luck with 3M HSRF, Rage Gold, and 3M dry guide coat. Find some blocks you like (I used a KB-16 for most of mine). Don't be afraid to use other things for blocks - wood dowels, paint sticks, pool noodles, and popsicle sticks all got used as blocks on mine. Buy quality sand paper in rolls with an adhesive backing. Change paper often - paper is cheap, time is expensive. Take your time. On the panels, remove material gently - trim half of what you think needs to go. Sneek up on the final fit - It is much easier to trim then to add (although adding material back is not hard, just time consuming). With the mods you have planned, you will need to fill some holes. Make sure you use some veil over the holes, or they will print through the paint over time. Make sure you use a compatable vinylester resin.
Good luck - This was the hardest thing I did on my build, but I am really happy I did it. I learned alot, saved a ton, and I am really happy with the finished product.
You guys that can paint your own cars have my respect, painting is more art then science. I can do all the body fitment and glass work but I cannot even paint with a spray can.
My paint job cost me more then I paid for my 70 Corvette but it is very nice.
CB
I bought a Croix HVLP turbine with two Sicmo guns in great shape for $75 on Craig's List. (I spent another $180 on fluid sets that I thought I needed, but didn't). I used Summit brand single stage urethane (Candy Apple Red, $80) plus a clearcoat ($60) and made a "booth" in my garage. I would say my paint job is a 3-footer, which I am pretty happy about. I can't attribute any flaws to the paint, turbine or guns; it was my first paint job.
It was a TON of work, but the memories of that are fading, and I am proud to have done it myself.
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Mk II+, Crate 5.0 w/ E303 Cam, 3-Link, TKO500, Mass-Flo, 9psi Powerdyne, Ford Fun Drop Butt Mod, smooth butt mod, wheel arches mod, roll bar mod, steering rack mod, foot box mod, door latches mod. Self painted. This is why it took so darn long! Go-cart 7/29/2010. Licensed as 1965, insured and on the road 8/12. Former user name David Lindquist.
Last edited by Redshift; 08-14-2012 at 11:06 PM..
Reason: Photos
They have good pricing on rolls of sticky back paper also. You'll use 150, 240, 320 and 400.
After using both Featherfill and Slick Sand I prefer SS. It builds a little more, has a longer pot life and sands a bit easier (you'll soon understand why even a LITTLE EASIER is important!). If there is any way possible do not get the product until you a are ready to use it (like within hours) and have the paint store shake it for at least 5 minutes. Both FF and SS are full of heavy solids which will seperate and it is darn near impossible to get it fully mixed either by hand or with rotary agitation. As mentioned you'll want a good sized tip to shoot it. Most of the el' cheapo primer guns come with a 1.8mm tip which is a bit small for Featherfill and Slick Sand. Fluid tips for these inexpensive guns are either unavailable or cost nearly as much as the guns themselves. I simply opened mine up to about 2.1mm (.0826") by drilling it with a #45 bit (.0820"). The 1.8 needle still seats just fine and it works well to deliver additional material smoothly. Speaking of delivering material smoothly, we all know that the smoother the surface the less sanding is required. What I do is make the first couple of passes with Featherfill or Slick Sand mixed per specs to get the high build then for the final coat add 5-10% fast reducer or acetone. It really helps it flow and lay down slick greatly reducing the amount of sanding to make it flat (once again, anything to reduce sanding is a godsend!).
There is more in my bodywork thread linked below if you care to take a look.
Even though I'd done the bodywork/paint thing on four cars, I was lucky to have the help of a neighbor who's the head body guy for Serramonte Ford! New stuff I learned:
a) Get a glass refrigerator shelf to do your filler mixing and clean it off with acetone. I was able to use a plastic serving tray which has worked well. Either way, you won't get cardboard fibers and related crap in the mix.
b) Mix enough to do an entire area, i.e., if you're working on the seam on the top of the right front fender (or building up the body around the doors to get the surfaces to match), mix enough to do the whole thing at once, using long strokes of the blade to shape it. If you do it as a series of small patches, it's really hard to get a continuous contour for the whole section. It's also a LOT faster.
c) Look REALLY carefully for pinholes in the filler each step along the way. I thought I found'em before the sealer, found more after the surfacer, and, yep, found more right between the basecoat and the clearcoat...
It's a total PITA, but it's also the most satifying part of the project when it comes out! Good luck!
Everyone says to contour the gelcoat and seams like you are going straight to paint. Don't count on the Slick Sand to cover and hide the small dips or waves. Then when you shoot Slick Sand, shoot a bunch. I used 1 1/2 gallons or at least 3 heavy coats. When I went to block it with guide coat I had a bunch of material to work with and did not have to apply Slick Sand again. This was the biggest time saver of my body work, and made the process forgiving since I was a first timer on all counts.
Also, I don't recommend painting when it is 95 degrees plus. I had to choose between dripping through all my sweat bands onto the paint or turning up the fans which blew dust onto the paint. I'm sanding out lots of dust but that fixes better than sweat in the paint and clear
I've got to say, several of you guys I know I've admired your photos over the past few years on the forum so I really appreciate you chiming in! After seeing Redshift's photos and knowing several others that are very happy after going into this with patience and knowledge, I am REALLY encouraged at the prospect that I can do my own bodywork and paint.
I probably should have also mentioned I have a small cheat over most Mk3 owners, I managed to snag one of the very last Mk3 bodies made and it was a prototype for the Mk4 casting. It has the red gelcoat and at least looking at it on my buck, the seams all look as if they matched up VERY well. Hopefully this will save me some $$$ in Rage Gold and sandpaper but by all means, treating the gelcoat and bare body as if it will be the final paint job is in the cards. I guess I should also share that the 6-8 hours a week is planned because as much as I want to finish it, I've barely seen the family over the past 14 months and there's still a bit to go before I can rest. (I'm working on getting back Leo but they won't take off the leash so we can put this region to rest!!!)
I've got some work calling but I'll be going through some of the links and Eastwood's sight as well. Time can't pass quick enough right now, I really want to start (and finish) sanding!!! Now...what color LOL?
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-Mk 3 #4900, home built '94 408W, Tremec 3550, 3.55 IRS, FFR 9"/10.5" wheels and 255/40Z17 - 315/35Z17 Nitto NT-05, ISIS...didn't follow the budget at all but having a blast. First go-kart 21 Sep 2011!
remember the DUST too
before you know it you will look dressed in Battleship Grey and they may think you've gone Navy with a putty knife and paintbrush.
done kidding: may think on what sealer, primer for the final color. light or dark
paint match the base
__________________
"Torque is the grunt
that gets us going, and Horsepower
is the force that keeps us moving"
MK3.1 #6945 her name is Buffy
p/u 04/04/09 roller 08/27/09
start-up Pearl Harbor Day 12/07/10
go-cart Memorial Day 2011
body on 11/11/11 Veterans Day
all legal except paint 02/12/12
372w handbuilt
The bodywork was the easy part. Now, picking color, that's a challenge!
I finished up all the bodywork and was ready to spray. I had the color choices narrowed down to black, blue, silver and red.
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FFR #7124 Mk 3.1, Levy 5 link, LCA's & brakes, 17" Halibrands, electric PS, SAI, Eibach springs, BOSS 427w, webers, hood louvers, tilt front. Delivered 12/23/09, 1st start 02/19/12. 1st go cart 03/03/12. Titled 10/3/12.
"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like". The Federalist Patriot Build blog: www.myersfamilyffrbuild.blogspot.com
remember the DUST too
before you know it you will look dressed in Battleship Grey and they may think you've gone Navy with a putty knife and paintbrush.
done kidding: may think on what sealer, primer for the final color. light or dark
paint match the base
Leo, sadly I've been pretty much Navy for the past 4 months now! You know they have a new blue digital camo that is similar to the Marine pattern? It blends in really well with the ocean, no joke!
I'm going to hold off on the getting the primer and sealer until I am ready with a color. I'll probably start a pole in a few months but right now I'm looking at something like a few of these:
I don't need to be different in my color and generally prefer the more 60's style paint colors. All three of those are really well done paint jobs!
How long did it take you to choose your color Dallas?
__________________
-Mk 3 #4900, home built '94 408W, Tremec 3550, 3.55 IRS, FFR 9"/10.5" wheels and 255/40Z17 - 315/35Z17 Nitto NT-05, ISIS...didn't follow the budget at all but having a blast. First go-kart 21 Sep 2011!
One other thing to add to your collection is some Evercoat Euro-Soft glazing putty. If you intend to have any filler on any edges or parts subject to impact (door edges, wheel wells, door frames, etc.) this is the stuff to use. It is specifically designed for use in high impact areas like these, and should reduce the chance of chipping a bunch.
I had to close the gap a bit around my doors (oddly, my doors were cut slightly too small instead of too big...) and the Euro-Soft is perfect for that type of thing:
Tim
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FFR 7681 Mk 4, IRS, 331 with Quad Weber IDAs. Check out my build site: http://www.timsroadster.com
How long did it take you to choose your color Dallas?
2 1/2 years. No joke. I can't tell you how much time I spent on the graduation threads, color threads, Cobra Country and looking at the ones here locally. Then once I decided on red, it took another few months to pick the shade I liked. I had no idea how many shades of red there was. Pathetic, I know.
__________________
FFR #7124 Mk 3.1, Levy 5 link, LCA's & brakes, 17" Halibrands, electric PS, SAI, Eibach springs, BOSS 427w, webers, hood louvers, tilt front. Delivered 12/23/09, 1st start 02/19/12. 1st go cart 03/03/12. Titled 10/3/12.
"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like". The Federalist Patriot Build blog: www.myersfamilyffrbuild.blogspot.com
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Only catch to using their booth is we have to use Sherwin Williams stuff because nobody else has paid to do the air quality research. Not a big deal as it seems to be a pretty good system from what I've read.
FFR 7124
#6945
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