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Bill D
FFR 3378 - 503 BB, $old and missed
RCR GT40 - 1051P clone, $old
289 FIA currently in work with Mr. Bruce, 331, dual quads, T-5, and IRS http://www.bills289fia.com
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MK4 delivery 12/17/11
Build thread: HERE
Epic First start video HERE
427w ford racing, stainless headers, 3link, tko600, 3.55 gears, Jim Inglese weber intake system and a custom paint job from Jeff Miller!
Type 65 Coupe Ordered 01/17/13
Build thread: HERE
347 w. stack injection, IRS, Levy arms, Levy front and rear brakes
I'm still finalizing all of the finer details but here is the high level view:
Base kit, non-donor. 302 carb w/mechanical linkage, probably a crate engine. 3 link rear with 3.73 gears. PS/PB, cobra disk breaks, . Likely going with either a black or dark grey finish but that decision might change over time. I won't be doing heat/AC or stereo (the stereo is still open for consideration but I doubt it.)
One thing I've learned on this site is that while its good to have an overall plan, its just as good, if not better to go too married to an idea as plans tend to change as the build progresses.
I'm in the process of creating a spreadsheet with my master plan that should cover every element of the build. Unfortunately right now I'm still seeing that there are options for each sub-assembly out there that I didn't know about. I learn about something new every day.
I have no intentions of doing anything to crazy with my build. I intend to focus on quality and detail rather than expensive or flashy modifications.
Hey congrats - I hope you have as much fun as I am have and I am on a mission to make all the mistakes so the builders that come after me know what to lookout for.
Ask away. Do you have a plan for your build? Starting with a build statement - how you want to use the car, high level aspects (all new parts, modern or replica appearance, and stuff like that). Then you should develop a spreadsheet of modifications, particular parts and upgrades you plan as well as major decisions (where to put your battery - trunk? under trunk? front X cross member? on top of passenger footbox? behind passenger seat?) - I have about 200 items in mine and I am not done.
Location: Blackberry Township, IL (west of Geneva)
Posts: 1,639
Good on ya' man for pulling the trigger - welcome to the FFR family! The more time you spend on your build and on this website, the more ideas you'll get for your build. My plan has "evolved" somewhat since I began the build - from a full-on vintage racecar look to what I now call "a gentleman's Cobra," i.e., no stripes, bumpers instead of quickjacks, but lots of emphasis on the engine, interior, and period-correct details.
Check out all the sub-forums here, too, as there are nuggets of info all over the place (and just as many ways for you to spend your time and money).
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Later,
Chris
Mk3.1 #7074
Picked-up at FFR - 10/10/09
First start and go-kart - 9/19/12
"As smoke is blown away; so blow them away." Psalm 68:2
Congrats and welcome!! Now a couple of thoughts on your plan.
1- Almost no matter what your 302 will be a 373 gear is too much. I had a bone stock 302 w/ 355 and that was about perfect. The problem w/ more gear is that first gets too short. Even w/ my 302 a T5z w/ taller first would have been better.
2- put a heater in it. Where you live you could add a month to either end of the summer w/ a heater and creative use of a blanket for your wife.W/ a top, you can drive any time there is no snow on the road. I am sure you get those days at either end or beginning of warm weather where all of a sudden you have a 45-50 degree day after a bunch in the 30s. W/ or w/o a top, you won't believe what it does for your attitude to get out in the cobra even if only for 30-40 minutes when one of those days occurs.
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FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
Along with a heater, also recommend a pair of waterproof seat heaters. Got mine for $125.
I'm happy with my 3.55 rear end also, and probably have less low end torque than you will, so second the motion that you don't need 3.73s.
Built a homemade sunken battery box under the trunk, but if had it to do again would use the Breeze low forward battery mount (better weight distribution).
Suggest a good quality high amp battery cutoff switch (not the cheapo low amp one) on the center firewall console, with the alternator output run through it (so it will act as a kill switch if engine is running).
Before tackling any major step, research it on this forum.
Have fun and just take one step at a time-don't get overwhelmed. You will find that you get braver in the shop every day and by the end will be able to tackle anything without any qualms. It's a great feeling that will have life long benefits.
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Rick
Mk IV 7329, '04 Mach 1 donor, 3 link, FFR lowers, heater, Kirkey seats w/seat heaters, dual rollbars, Kumho Ecsta XS 255/315s on 9/10.5 x 17 Halibrand replicas; , Lexus Indigo Ink Pearl/Arctic White stripes
-picked up 9/25/10
-first start 3/9/12
-go kart 3/18/12
-complete 7/24/12 http://s1183.photobucket.com/albums/...0Construction/
I would look in the regional forums - like the Northeast forum. Have you had a ride in an FFR? Ask around, odds are someone around there have a 302 based roadster...find out what gears they have and see if you can get a ride (most guys will be happy to show off their car). Bet yet, see if there are any local gatherings where you can see or ride in a couple of different cars. I take every chance I get to look and always make mental notes - I like that, I would not do that, I need to add that mod to my list, that does not look as cool in person as I thought, etc.
As for gearing as other guys have said, an awful lot of guys think 3.55 is perfect (all gearing is a compromise), if you really want that hit when you punch it, you can go 3.73, but it really shortens your gears, will have you pulling higher revs (these cars are very loud even at idle - think kids, wife, neighbors, etc), and will knock your mpg down a bit (if that is of concern to you).
I knew the gear selection would get some attention. I've driven mustangs with the 3.73 gears and liked how the car felt. That said the Mustang is a heavier car than the Roadster. I actually already have a set of 3.55's available to me if the 3.73s prove too much.
Thinking about this, the reason I want the 3.73's is for low end snap. I'm by no means an expert on torque vs. gearing advantages and disadvantages. If I were to build for a bit more power and use the 3.55's would I get a overall more drivable car? Or does more power just bring me back to the same tire smoking scenario that the lower gearing would?
Along with a heater, also recommend a pair of waterproof seat heaters. Got mine for $125.
I'm happy with my 3.55 rear end also, and probably have less low end torque than you will, so second the motion that you don't need 3.73s.
Built a homemade sunken battery box under the trunk, but if had it to do again would use the Breeze low forward battery mount (better weight distribution).
Suggest a good quality high amp battery cutoff switch (not the cheapo low amp one) on the center firewall console, with the alternator output run through it (so it will act as a kill switch if engine is running).
Before tackling any major step, research it on this forum.
Have fun and just take one step at a time-don't get overwhelmed. You will find that you get braver in the shop every day and by the end will be able to tackle anything without any qualms. It's a great feeling that will have life long benefits.
You guys are good at spending money. I'm still in the no heater camp right now. I ride motorcycles almost year round. A bit of a chill doesn't bother me.
I was thinking trunk mount battery really only to clean things up a bit. I want to have as tidy of an engine bay as possible. I have no intentions of being near a track with my car so a perfect weight balance isn't critical for me. In these cars for non-track use is this something I would feel?
Does the cheapo low amp battery cutoff switch come with the car? Or is this a modification to the kit that people do? I looked through the assembly hint book and didn't see it.
I understand the "we're good at spending money" lament, but just recognize that most modifications are far easier to add while building the car vs. after car is already constructed, so it's important to really think things through in advance of the various "points of no return" for easily adding particular items.
I ride motorcycles too, in both cold and rain if caught on trips (often). But, on my bike I'm wearing a helmet, warm jacket, gloves, rain suit if need be, appropriate boots..... In the car, you won't have a lot of that, especially if caught out mid drive. Living in N.H. as you do, I'd think twice before not installing the heater and seat heater. Even on a balmy summer evening after dark, the heat feels wonderful. I'm sure it'll seem even better during early spring and late fall.
Regarding the weight distribution issue relative to the battery box in trunk-nah, you probably won't feel it. However, with the battery in the engine bay, you'll have a lot less battery cable running all over the car; which is a good thing for several reasons (e.g. resistance issues, failure points, weight...).
One final thought relative to my own mindset evolution during the build: I had intended on building a "stripper" but realized that the relatively minor marginal cost of adding bitsas (heater, seat heaters (Cobraheat), quality battery cuttoff switch (Longacre), roll bar bezels (Mike Emerson), wind wings, sunvisors, peep mirrors (Speedway motors), center mirror windshield mount (Darkwater Customs), driveshaft loop (Fortes)....) represents that last 3% of expense which enhances aesthetics and/or safety by far more than 3% (in my opinion).
But of course-your car, your cost/benefit analysis. Just offering food for thought.
__________________
Rick
Mk IV 7329, '04 Mach 1 donor, 3 link, FFR lowers, heater, Kirkey seats w/seat heaters, dual rollbars, Kumho Ecsta XS 255/315s on 9/10.5 x 17 Halibrand replicas; , Lexus Indigo Ink Pearl/Arctic White stripes
-picked up 9/25/10
-first start 3/9/12
-go kart 3/18/12
-complete 7/24/12 http://s1183.photobucket.com/albums/...0Construction/
Good advice. I appreciate the info, that's what's so great about this forum. I'm approaching this from a nothing is set in stone perspective. I'm likely going to always be researching each sub-assembly a few steps ahead of where I actually am on the build.
The heat vs. no heat isn't a question of money. None of this is. My goal is not to build the cheapest roadster I can. If I were going that route I'd have a 1990 mustang in my garage. I'm in the process of weighing the merits of each and every item going into the car so I can make a judgement based on that.
For what it's worth I think my wife is overruling the no heat decision anyway. She's good at spending my money too.
RE: Gear ratio
It's impossible to make a good recommendation without knowing what your transmission ratios are. What trans are you using? Either 3.55 or 3.73 will work well for 4th and 5th gear highway cruising but it sounds like you are focusing more on off the line snap; i.e. first gear. With a T5 you'll have either a 3.35 first in the Mustang box or a 2.95 first if a T5-Z.
Running some quick numbers shows overall ratio:
3.73 rear with 3.35 first gear =12.4:1
3.55 rear with 3.35 first gear =11.8:1
3.73 rear with 2.95 first gear =11.0:1
3.55 rear with 2.95 first gear =10.4:1
FWIW my car is in the 350ish HP range with a 3.55/3.35 combo and first gear is really a little too short. There is no way I can lay into it hard and stay hooked up. I recently built another roadster that is somewhere around 325-340 HP with a 3.55/2.95 combination. First gear is actually useable but you can bust it loose if you try. To me this combination is just about ideal.
My opinion, worth exactly what you paid, would be to follow the list above from bottom to top (unless all you want is a smoke show, in which case do 3.73/3.35 ).
The car will rarely go on the highway. Perhaps occasionally for a group thing or for short runs to family members houses, maybe a quick blast up an exit or two. You get the picture. There are a few factors for me that I take into consideration for the type of car I want. One is that I work from home. I rarely leave town. Two, I have several other modes of transportation. Three I have a trailer that will hold it in a worst case scenario. Once this is done it will be a toy. Nothing more nothing less. One that I'll be particularly proud of but a toy.
All that said, I don't want something with a useless first gear. In fact at some point I would like it if my wife was able to drive the car. I think I need to go back to the drawing board on the gearing. Maybe I was thinking too much toward the lets go rip it up and play and not enough I need to be able to drive down the road in a civilized manner most of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKleiner
RE: Gear ratio
It's impossible to make a good recommendation without knowing what your transmission ratios are. What trans are you using? Either 3.55 or 3.73 will work well for 4th and 5th gear highway cruising but it sounds like you are focusing more on off the line snap; i.e. first gear. With a T5 you'll have either a 3.35 first in the Mustang box or a 2.95 first if a T5-Z.
Running some quick numbers shows overall ratio:
3.73 rear with 3.35 first gear =12.4:1
3.55 rear with 3.35 first gear =11.8:1
3.73 rear with 2.95 first gear =11.0:1
3.55 rear with 2.95 first gear =10.4:1
FWIW my car is in the 350ish HP range with a 3.55/3.35 combo and first gear is really a little too short. There is no way I can lay into it hard and stay hooked up. I recently built another roadster that is somewhere around 325-340 HP with a 3.55/2.95 combination. First gear is actually useable but you can bust it loose if you try. To me this combination is just about ideal.
My opinion, worth exactly what you paid, would be to follow the list above from bottom to top (unless all you want is a smoke show, in which case do 3.73/3.35 ).
One of the reasons I mention getting seat time or a ride in someone's car is that these cars are very unique - they are exceptional. People get caught up in the numbers and our tendency is to apply what we know about other cars and other experiences we have had - the problem cobras make most comparisons invalid or irrelavant.
A build with a base donor motor, I am talking the 5.0 HO, pushrod 302 with 225HP is one hell of a ride. Faster and more powerful (power to weight, not just HP numbers) than most people have experienced or are used to. It is the basis for the Spec racer and series. When you add up the HP, the light weight, the size of the car, that it is an open cockpit, the overall experience is incredible.
What I am getting at is for 98% of people, both 3.55 & 3.73 geared roadster are going to be fast, even scary fast. But going with the 3.55 makes first gear more usuable, will keep your RPMs (think noise) down a little without sacrificing that incredible, raw power experience.
Congratulations on your order.
If you ask a question, you'll get 50 answers. Here is mine... I have a 302 pushing 375hp and a stock T5. I went with 3.27 and hated it. I put 3.73s in over the winter and haven't regretted it at all. All the gears were better but where I really saw a difference was 5th. The gear change made 5th usable. My set-up is perfect.
The heater/seat heaters makes it nice to drive in the off season and evenings and I'm glad I went with them but hey, it's only money...
Good luck
D
Congratulations on your order.
If you ask a question, you'll get 50 answers. Here is mine... I have a 302 pushing 375hp and a stock T5. I went with 3.27 and hated it. I put 3.73s in over the winter and haven't regretted it at all. All the gears were better but where I really saw a difference was 5th. The gear change made 5th usable. My set-up is perfect.
The heater/seat heaters makes it nice to drive in the off season and evenings and I'm glad I went with them but hey, it's only money...
Good luck
D
Thanks for the input. People are recommending 3.55's which split what you hated and now love. I think that that the 3.55's will be an okay start and if I feel like they're a mistake over the first winter I have the car done I will change to my original plan. If not, I will be happy to admit I was wrong.
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