removing aluminum panels and rust repair... grrrr!

[bgbadaz]

Well, for those that didnt see my corrosion thread, after having my almost kartable roadster in my garage for a few months, my pool chemicals started a major corrosion problem that i now have to fix. after the discouraged phase passed, im now left to disassemble my roadster. i have decided to powdercoat all the aluminum except for the footboxes. they are insulated on both sides so i have no issues there. so... here is question number one. once I drill out all 7842 rivets is there any good way to break the silicone bond without damaging the panels? i fear everyones answers. question 2... what is a good way to get the rivets out on all the 1" tubes so my car doesnt sound like a can of rocks when i drive it? (still afraid of the answers)

now, aside from my panels, im painting my alt case, water pump, and a few other things with aluminum paint. my black ARP bolt heads started to rust on my motor. im thinking about removing them and putting them in a tumbler to remove the rust and using eastwoods metal blackening system to recoat them. has anyone used it before, and if so, were you satisfied with the results? lastly, im removing my rotors to clean them. is there anything i can soak them in to dissolve the rust in the vanes before i try to coat them?

thanks

bobby

[QSL]

I am sorry that sucks!

We had to remove one silicone panel and it was two too many panels to remove. Hope you get it though. Good luck!

[ZoaFan08]

I looked into and actually tried removing some of my panels during my rebuild and it was a nightmare. Good luck!

[cwrandolph]

Try piano wire. If you can come up with a way to attach a couple of handles, I'll bet the piano wire will cut through ther silicone pretty easily. I used to work in a glass shop and we had some sort of wire tool that we used to slice through the adhesive that held windshields in.

[TD]

• Piano wire
• Remove panels as assemblies not individual.
• Tap rivits into tube
• Spray expanding foam into tube.

[mrmustang]

Stop at home depo and pick up a 4 inch metal spackle spreader, work it around the silicone at one end and slide it between the two items you want separated.

Do not, I REPEAT, DO NOT spray foam insulation into the main tubes. Instead stop at your local auto body supply shop (check for a local Finishmaster) and pick up 3M Rust Fighter (part # 08892) in an aerosol can. Spray it liberally into the main tubes....

Bill S.

[Dan Babb]

Wonder if heating up the blade of the metal spackle knife would help it slip between the panel and the tube and break the seal?

if you drill out the rivets with a bit that's just about the same size as the rivet body, that could help minimize the pieces that fall into the tubes.

Maybe invite a bunch of friends over for a 'pool party', then give them the spackle blades and drills and tell them they can go swimming after they've met their panel quota.

[John Baker]

Maybe give this a try.
Find Professional Windshield Removal Kit - Harbor Freight Tools

[rich grsc]

You will never, I repeat never hear those tiny pieces of rivets in the frame. And Bill S is on the money, a good shackle knife is all you need.

[CobraDreaming]

This tool came to my mind that may help for some panels

Lowe's - 8" Metal PVC Pipe Cutter customer reviews - product reviews - read top consumer ratings

[h82crash]

Heating the blade won't help, most silicone is rated for 600 degrees and 1000 probably won't hurt it.

[Wade Chamberlain]

I got that t-shirt...it's not fun. A 1" or 1.5" putty knife works well. If you have a good bond, the 4" drywall knife suggested above might be too flimsy and wide enough that it'll take way too much force to push it through. The narrower putty knife is slow going, but you can concentrate the force enough to more easily break the bond. Get a good one (stiff). After you get the panels off, the real fun starts (getting the silicone off). A very fine cup-brush on an angle grinder works pretty well....as do the little rol-loc scotchbrite disks. Wear a dustmask.

[edwardb]

Just a minor hijack -- everyone who thinks they need to re-invent the build process for these cars, e.g. change from silicone to some other "stronger" and higher tech adhesive needs to read this thread.

[turbonut48]

I ve found a razor knife will easily cut silicone. Its narrow enough for to fit extremely small gaps. Wear leather gloves in case of a slip with knife.
Aputty knife will help separate as you start to release the bond.

I agree, you will NEVER hear the rivet heads inside the tube.

Im not sure of the disadvantages to foaming the tube. Maybe an incomplete fill, and trapping moisture?

It wont be easy.

Good Luck.

The Nut

[bgbadaz]

ill take you guys word on not hearing the rivets. im just so damn meticulous about this car that the thought of having them in there is really the problem for me. i agree with edward, anyone who wants to re-engineer their car with something stronger... think again. i think im going to start tonight and try a utility knife or a linoleum knife to cut the silicone and then use a heavy putty knife to help seperate them. Ill keep you all posted on the progress... hopefully my next post wont be filled with an angry tirade.

now, about my rust problem. has anyone used one of eastwoods plating kits... either the zinc or the blackening kit? i really need to find some feedback on them, im torn on how to handle that issue.

atleast with my disassembly i can make a couple changes that i wanted to make. i think im goint to make a rear cockpit shelf to expose my rollbar behind the seat, and im probably switching to floor mounted pedals so i can reconfigure the drivers footbox to original size. we'll see... i have alot of fixin' to do befor i get to those mods.

[tirod]

Brake rotors are cast iron, one trip outside in the wet and they will rust anyway. The only solution to that problem I know of is Bosch Quietcast rotors, which are actually plated in a bright finish that won't corrode - except where the pads ride. I suppose the rotors could be bead blasted at a shop, who will charge accordingly. What to prevent it in the future is usually of limited duration.

The problem brings up the issue of patina - I doubt the original CSX have bright shiny aluminum in them by now. While I wouldn't go out of my way to create it, the corrosion that now exists is something that will happen in the long run. Non anodized aluminum will corrode. I was inspecting a car for my daughter to purchase, it had an alternator that was replaced in 2006 - and was speckled black and white with corrosion on the case. The one I installed in my car about the same time is equally corroded.

It's really part and parcel of what we suffer in daily drivers, bare castings exposed to winter road salt or beach cruising will degrade and oxidize. So will suspensions, wheels, and almost everything else. It all turns to rust and dust.

Me, rather than take down the car to it's bare frame, I'd research a chemical aluminum cleaner to remove most of it. Or, sell it and start over. Since life is short enough, I'd wipe it down for the best results and move on. Once it's on the road, it was going to happen anyway.

Obviously, bright and shiny isn't something I value highly. I never buy new cars or furniture. The last piece was a '40s mahoghany sideboard I cleaned up. $40. It has lots of nice patina.

[QSL]

I might add that we used a long scrap piece of thin aluminum. Bend over one edge to use as a handle and got in there. It was still not fun.

[rockpool]

to cut silicone, I've always used 40-60lb monofilament. If I had to do it now I'd use some braided spiderline and a couple of scrap-wood handles.

To get it off, straight gas seems pretty effective.

[COMPETITIONCOBRA]

Without knowing just how bad the corrosion is on the aluminum its hard to say if this will work... Try some aluminum / metal prep on the panels while they are in the car. Only problem is you can't get access to both sides in some places but this process does work at sort of evening out the surface finish to a point. The photos below are some panels I made then sanded the surface to get a brushed look. I was not happy with the blotchy finish so I used the aluminum / metal prep with a Scotchbrite pad scrubbing the surface in straight lines and the finish was a nice even dull silver finish... rinse thourghly.

[bgbadaz]

i'll try to post some pics tonight or tomorrow, funny thing is that after 7 years on here ive never figured it out (or tried). as far as patina goes... im all for it, but only if its earned. I dont think my brand new car should look 50 years old... until it is. im kinda reconsidering a little bit of my disassembly. Im definately pulling off the firewall and footbox tops, f panels, and other underhood aluminum(not footboxes). definately pulling the trunk sides, and probably the floor, but im thinking the cockpit will stay intact. since im carpeting the top side of it, im going to try to clean up the bottom side. i bought some 1000 and 1500 grit paper, and thats where im starting... more on that soon. if i can clean up the underside, and make it look decent, i think i may let that ride. I actually havent even seen the bottom of the car yet... i may be wooried about nothing. (hopefully) i just got it jacked up and got the wheels off yesterday. im off work tomorrow, so now the fun begins...

[ROADRACER83]

I think the wire method will work the best without bending or denting the panels. Use some thin stainless wire like .020 or .025 safety wire. Push a probe through at one end and then tie the wire to two sticks so you can pull from both directions. That's how they take windshields out without screwing the paint up.

Amazon.com: Tool Aid 87460 Windshield Removal Kit: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Tool Aid 87460 Windshield Removal Kit: Home Improvement

If you are really worried about the debris from the pop rivets, drill a 1/4 inch hole in the tube at one end and use an air hose to blow the the pop rivet remnants out. Then weld or plug the 1/4 inch hole. I don't think that leaving them in there is going to hurt anything and I'm sure you won't hear them over the side pipe sound.

Ron

[NAVYDUDE]

I dont think you'll ever hear or notice the rivet shavings in the frame over the motor and exhaust... however if its going to drive you crazy knowing their in there, you could always drill a 1/4 or a 5/16 hole in the far side of the tube and hook up a shop vac to it... yes it works... then just seal and plug the hole. HTH

[Thumper135]

I’ve pulled several of my panels doing mods to things. I used a 1 ½” wide putty knife that has a stiff blade area. As mentioned here, start on one corner and work your way down the length of the panel. Don’t rush it and don’t try to just pull the panel off once you get it started, work all of it with the knife. I only trashed one panel learning this. Once the panels are off, I can say that trying to get all of the remaining sealant off the bars is a bit of fun (you can insert the “BULL CRAP, IT SUCKS!” here). Don’t worry about all of the rivet heads left in the tubes. You will only hear them rattle around if you can pick up the car and shake it in a very quiet location.

I’m really sorry to hear about the work ahead. I wish you the best of luck with this.

[mn12]

Originally Posted by tirod

Brake rotors are cast iron, one trip outside in the wet and they will rust anyway. The only solution to that problem I know of is Bosch Quietcast rotors, which are actually plated in a bright finish that won't corrode - except where the pads ride. I suppose the rotors could be bead blasted at a shop, who will charge accordingly. What to prevent it in the future is usually of limited duration.

Here is another option. I bought Cobra rotors for my daily driver from this company and they offer CAD plating as an option

KVR Performance Brakes

[mrmustang]

To add to my original post (I have brain lock when trying to visualize what I meant above)... The following (called a 5 in 1 tool) is what I use for removing aluminum panels on the ffr.



Works great when you do not have a helper handy.

Bill S.

[Thomaswh4]

You could try a cable saw from Home depot $6 it's a wire with 2 handles

PVC Cable Saw-T110 at The Home Depot

[bgbadaz]

I figured I give you guys an update. The car is coming apart... slowly. Its not quite as bad as I thought. The cockpit is not going to have to come apart. The underside is almost perfect, and the top side... well Ive got carpet to fix that. I tried sanding a couple panels with different grit papers before I committed to removing them, but I wasnt satisfied with the outcome. I cant take off enough material to get all the fine etching off that the corrosion left behind. I drilled most of my rivets out on the panels I need to remove, but havent pulled any off yet. Im starting at the front and working back, but I ran into a problem already. I wanted to take apart my front suspension before trying to remove the F panels so I would have plenty of room to work. I noticed my new Vintage wheels were badly corroded (I was able to sand and polish that out), and I started breaking drive pins when I was trying to remove my adapters. Feel free to comment on that thread if you can help me past that problem. Once I get the front suspension off, I start pulling panels. I'll let you guys know whose idea works best.

Thanks again guys.

Bobby