First auto X the 12th, any advice?

[kevin12973]

Talked to one of the scca members regarding rules and requirements. Looks like my loud pipes will be ok since the location is an active airport.
My first "race" was actually at the drag strip- first run;12.1 sec. second run;11.96, last run;11.93.
Any way this will be my first event of this type so I am asking for any advise for a noobie like me from you seasoned veterans out there. Thanks, Kevin

[ROADRACER83]

Kevin:

The key is be smooth. Don't try to kill the course in your first runs. You won't win your first autocross, so the key is learn how the car reacts under braking, steering and acceleration, how to drive a line through each type of gate and slalom and keeping the car balanced. Here's a couple of links that will give you some tips. Google "Autocross Driving Techniques" and more will come up.

Driving Techniques | Track, road & advanced

Autocross Basics

Autocross Course Driving Techniques

Old Dominion Region SCCA - Andy's Top Ten Autocross Driving Tips

Have fun and don't get frustrated your first time. You may get lost and it happens to everyone as they start out.

Ron

[kevin12973]

Thanks Roadracer!!

[RButton]

great articles!!

Look well ahead - the corner you're in is over! You need to be lined up for the next one so keep looking well ahead to the next turns.
And have fun! eating cones is part of the fun!

[JKleiner]

Everything above but I'll emphasize what Ron said X 1000:

Originally Posted by ROADRACER83

The key is be smooth.

This is true with any car but especially so for us because these things are so "knife edge".
---Abrupt steering inputs will make it push---a lot!
---Squeeeeeeeze the throttle; don't treat it like an on-off switch.
---Don't hammer the brakes; make a firm initial application and modulate upward from there.
---"Slow in, fast out" really works
---The typical autocross practice of upping tire pressure does not work for us; 15s no more than ~28#, 17s around 22#
---Don't worry about what times anyone else is running; just strive to make each run better than the last. The biggest thing you can do to improve the car is to get more seat time for the driver.
---Walk the course as many times as time allows. If you find yourself getting lost on course while driving ask to do a ride-along with an experienced guy. Everyone is always willing to help out a novice.

Have fun and let us know how it went!

Jeff

[cobraless]

Never lift!!!

[kevin12973]

Thanks alot guys, thats alot to digest. Jeff, that tire press tip is just what I needed to know. Started out with 26psi. but thought the sidewall flex was too excessive so I have been at 32 psi for 2 months now, seems better but I will be sure to drop it down to 26 again. I will post my results, I feel sorry for those cones

[JoeE]

What wheels and tires are you running?

[Cone Basher]

Road racer has it nailed: In the events that I run they offer a novice walk throught the course, I recommend you do this. I also walk the course where my butt will be seated in the car as a first look at lines into and out of corners. Most regions permit this: You can also ask to ride as a passenger in some of the cars, you can also go watch how the fast guys in any class are entering and exiting a turn. The best advice I can give you is learn to drive with two feet, left for the brake right for the gas. If you do it this way it is easier to not unbalance your car. Ask about a novice class, if they have one enter there for your first event. Remember you are going to get a number of runs (usually 5 or 6) use the first 3 to learn the lines you want to run and what gear you want to be in (I often short shift to second keep the power under control) then go for it. Check your tire pressures after each run and this will give you an indication of an oversteer or understeer condition. As road racer said smooth is often faster then you think it is. SCCA now has a road tire class, if they do not have a novice division, that should be your second option. Your goal for the day is to make each run you have faster then the previous one, do not be concerned with the "other guys" times.
Auto-X is like sex, you do not have to be good at it to enjoy it, I've been doing it for 30 years and am still learnig both:
Keep us posted:
HTH
CB

[kevin12973]

I was hoping you 2 would chime in (conebasher and Joe). Thanks for the helpful tips.
Joe, 15" firestone Indy500 tires 295 rear 235 front. Previously running billboards that were 10 times better handling and traction. Thanks, Kevin

[JoeE]

Another thing to add to above. As said enter as Novice, take along an instructor or experienced driver to get you through the course at least your first two runs maybe even third run.

I have been helping another member to get going in AutoX and he too has 15" setup. He has been around 35 psi front and 38 rear. Yes that much for tall side wall tires. Incidentally it took him to the third, day, set of runs to make it through the course alone. Be patient it takes a lot of time, course layout can be confusing to the new guy.

[kevin12973]

Wow 35 and 38psi!! I'll give that a try and see how it feels. The billboards felt stiff at 26 psi, no sidewall deflection like the guys running 17" tires w/ 40 series sidewalls. I would like to have that feel back. I cant wait to try those pressures!

[CraigS]

Re;tire pressure. If you get one of those old school white shoe polishes w/ the sponge top you can put a glob at the edge of the tread before each run. that way you can see how far around the edge of the tread you are wearing. On street tires it seems that somewhere in the 22-26 range works best.On r-compound tires most are in the 18-20 range.
Also try to find somehere you can practice a few launches from a stop. Most likely you will be surprised how easy you have to launch so you don't just sit and spin the tires.
If in doubt about where to shift into second, do it early. these cars have a ton of power so 1st gear is never used again after the start. Even if you have a tight enough turn that you think you could use first, don't.
Walk,walk,walk. The course will look ok while walking but you won't believe how things happen 10 times faster in the car. The worst feeling is comeing out of a turn and it looks like there is just a sea of cones ahead and not sure where to go next.
As mentioned, don't compare yourself to others, only to your own last run. We just ran an SCCA event w/ 4 of us being experienced and a new guy who did a great job. But he was 10 seconds slower. that's just the way it is so don't let it disappoint you cause autocross is the most fun you can have in these cars w/o danger. And after a season you will be so much better a driver you won't believe it.
Have FUN!

[rick8928]

Originally Posted by CraigS

We just ran an SCCA event w/ 4 of us being experienced and a new guy who did a great job. But he was 10 seconds slower.
Have FUN!

Hey, wait I minute! I'm the new guy referred to and I've got a ton of excuses to list! Nah, just kidding.

Here's my take:
1. Absolutely walk the course several times. As stated above, what looks simple when you're walking it becomes a sea of cones at speed.
2. I showed up with Kumho Ecsta 17s running 35psi. I was convinced by the guys that this is way too hi for these cars and I conservatively reduced the pressure to 26psi hot. Next time: 22psi.
3. At the driver's meeting, it was suggested that novices take their first of four runs alone, then if needed request an instructor. I found it wasn't needed.
4. My times progressed nicely: 61.9, 59.1, 57.968 (had to go to more digits in order to get that "7" in); finishing with a 4th run at 65.2 including a highly stylistic spin. I had decided to just go for it, sliding the tires at every corner needlessly, just for fun.
5. Restating the lessons from earlier posts:
-walk the course
-get into 2nd gear and stay there
-smoothness in all actions
-slow in, fast out

PS. All the other guys had comp R tires. I had street tires. I figure they're worth 10.1 seconds. "I could a been a contendah". LOL

[Cone Basher]

Another tid bit that might help. You do not have to know the entire course just the general lay out as to the next turn, is it left or right. As you exit a turn start looking at the next one and select your line. If a number of cars run you will see rubber on the track which will help with your next run. Watch as many runs as possible and you will get a sense of what the best line is. You will be required to work a heat as a cone chaser, flager etc. Watch the cars and think about the course, you can get a lot of info watching ,fast in slow out or vice versa is often evident as you watch.
Let us know how you do but have fun thats what Auto-X is all about.
CB

[Bigtim01]

I am JOE E's student, and having Joe to ride along with me has been a great help in car control. Walk the course 2 or 3 times with an experienced driver/instructor. Ask questions, I have found everyone to be most helpful. Have an instructor ride along with you to guide you thru the course. Go "SLOW" and remember these cars have more power then needed and plan on spending more time sideways then straight. At my next event I will be trying 30 lbs in the front and rear. At my last event Joe checked my tire wear with 30 lbs front and 35 rear. He suggested I lower my rears to 30. I am running 15" tires now, but 17"s are on their way.
The great thing about these events is no deers jumping out in front of you, no police to worry about and you get to enjoy your cars capabilities.
HTH
Tim

[kevin12973]

Just got back from my first autocross event and it was a real fun and educational experience. I think it should be mandatory to all cobra owners to do this type event so they really know how to handle the beasts they drive.
First run I was trying to take it easy and I did that except exiting corners I was jumping on the gas to aggressively and drifting through much of the course.
The next 2 runs were about the same but the instructor noticed I was not using the brakes, just decelerating into the corners and entering loose. He told me he was sorry he didnt notice that earlier.
My forth fifth and sixth runs were much better going harder into the turns and using brakes, car steers better with some weight transfer to front. I was 4 seconds quicker those last runs. Still have to be smother on throttle inputs. Sliding out of a turn looks cool but is not fast. This is my biggest room for improvement, throttle management, or get better tires. I think I should learn to drive what I got first.
All together a great day and cant wait for the next event. Learned alot about my car and my abilities. As I mentioned before, this should be mandatory for all cobra owners so they can be safe on the road with these evil beasts.

[MikeKelly]

Originally Posted by kevin12973

I think it should be mandatory to all cobra owners to do this type event so they really know how to handle the beasts they drive.

+1

It *ought* to be required to get a drivers' license, it's a no-brainer for high hp stuff.

Originally Posted by kevin12973

I think I should learn to drive what I got first.

+1

Just learning to drive what you've got *could* keep you amused for years, spend the extra money on seat time. You'll never be sorry about that (why wear out A6s learning to drive the car hard?).

[emac]

I used to do some auto crossing and track days and it really taught me how to drive. I remember my very first autox . I had no idea what to do. I was young, thought I could drive, and no you tube videos to watch back then. Well, I boiled the tires at the start, slid sideways around most turns, and took out a few cones.! Everyone enjoyed the show and we all had a good laugh. The more experienced guys gave me advice like you have gotten here , taught me how to set up the car, and my times got better very fast.

My tip to add......I always did better in a slalom when I looked at the back side of the cones and not the front. If that makes any sense. Be patient with the car, let the suspension work.

Have fun!

[CraigS]

Kevin,glad it worked out and you had fun. I suggest that you stay on the tires you have for this season at least. Better tires will give you better times but you don't really gain any more skill. Also, better tires make everything happen quite a bit faster so they can actually make it more difficult.
Rick, I hope you didn't take my comment as a negative. I was just trying to point out that experience counts for a ton of time. Looking forward to seeing you again at FedEx on the 19th

[MJN]

Originally Posted by kevin12973

This is my biggest room for improvement, throttle management,

The first two things I changed when I started to auto X regularly were the gas pedal and the seats. I was using the Mustang pedal per the kit instructions and it was not easy to modulate at small throttle openings. Swapping to a Russ Thompson pedal made a night and day difference. Then I realized that I was spending more energy bracing myself and hanging onto the steering wheel than concentrating on driving the car. The stock FFR classic low back seats don't do a very good job of holding you in place when you are throwing the car around. A swap to a Kirkey intermediate road race seat made another huge difference. I don't remember what kind of improvement in times those two changes made but it was multiple seconds. Neither made the car any faster it just made the driver faster.

[wonder106]

Kevin, It's great to get out and use the cars as they are designed to be used. If your region does Test-N-Tune events, they are a great way to get alot of seat time. The last Test-N-Tune in the Philly area I had about an hour of seat time during the one day event. It's hard to develop your skills when you only drive the car for 3-6 minutes on an AX course once a month. Once you feel more comfortable with your driving skills, a used set of hoosier can be picked up and you will pick up about 2 seconds over the street tires. (I'm at this stage because can't justify the cost of new tires to my wife yet). Good Luck.
John

[kevin12973]

Forgot one other thing I need to work on. I need to look ahead more to the next gate before I pass the current gate. Its easy to be "book smart", but to apply all one knows to the track is were I fall short. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those that really have it together.

[Cone Basher]

Back when I first started I was over driving the course, jump on the brakes turn and nail the gas, kinda like modern drifting. I did not get smooth and reasonably fast until I learned to drive with two feet. It takes some concentration to get used to doing it but if you drive your car and do this even in a street setting it becomes less confusing. If you use the left foot for the brake it is much easier to balance your car on corner entry and exit as you do not have to choose between no power or to much power in about 1 or 2 sec. Just short shift to second gear then shift your left foot to the brake. Drive your car around and experiment with it. It will make you smoother and that is always faster.
PS I'm still only reasonably fast but it sure is fun:
Keep us posted:
HTH
CB

[CraigS]

Wow Kevin, you have really learned a lot in one event. Looking a gate ahead is absolutely key. One of the things that can be hard to understand is that 1-where the NEXT turn is and 2- how you need to enter the NEXT turn... determines.. 3-how you exit the THIS turn which is determined by...4- how you entered THIS turn. As you can see, we are actually working a minimum 4 step process that is spread out over at least two consequtive turns. I have a feeling that you will do very well at autocrossing. This is one of those things where you discover that there is an entire world out there that you maybe didn't even know existed til recently. And, while autocross is not the same as running on a track, it can be taken to an extremely high level which means you do well enough at relatively local events ( nearby states) to qualify to run at the autocross runoffs at the end of the season in Nebraska (I think). Nice thing is you 99% never have to worry about a crash destroying your car. Glad to see your interest cause one more autocrosser is always a good thing for the rest of us.

[kevin12973]

Buy the way, the results are on the Mo Hud scca site now and I was 40,0 sec. witch was 45th out of 71 drivers. Not bad for novice slipping and sliding on hard all-season firestones
Cone Basher, I will definately do that, someone else mentioned they were going to try that. I stayed in second the whole time so I should be easy to try out. Thanks for the tip.

[Cone Basher]

Kevin: This is a fun thread. Another tid bit that may save you a few tenths of a second is to learn to rotate your car around the next cone. What you do is place the inside front wheel as close to the cone as you can and as you begin to add a little power mid turn the back will track in a slightly larger arc so the back tires will clear the cone. It all depends on the approach angle in relation to where your rear tires are tracking which is determined by the previous turn. If it's a slow corner you have to allow a little more clearence with the front tire on entry but it's the fast way around that cone. You will get a number of runs so each one is a learning process.
Keep in touch:
HTH
CB

[rick8928]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Rick, I hope you didn't take my comment as a negative. I was just trying to point out that experience counts for a ton of time. Looking forward to seeing you again at FedEx on the 19th

Craig,
Not to worry, I took it as you intended. No ego issues here, as I understand the process. I used to club road race motorcycles in the late 70s/early 80s, and dropped over 15 seconds a lap at Riverside Raceway (So. Cal.) between my first event as a backmarker and two years later, by which time I was a regular podium finisher, occasional race winner. I have no intention of getting that serious with AutoX, but the 19th sounds like fun (I'll wait until closer to the event to sign up, watching the weather forecast). I got absolutely soaked on my 55 mile drive home two weeks ago, and am not looking for a repeat!

[Cone Basher]

I see from your posts that you live in Baltimore. I'm not sure how far away you are from Cumberland but they host a great Auto-X series at the airport. I live in Ohio and can only make 1 or 2 trips there each year. I run in XP and a lot of guys from the capital cobra club show up there and run. Usually 15+ cars in XP most of them Cobras. Just search for National Road Auto sport and you can find their schedule. Nice group of guys to run with, course is usually loose and fast and it's a great time. They have two events left Sept 22/23 and October 20/21. If you can't find them with the search info you can call 1-301-707-9492 or e-mail fpfeiffer@atlanticbb.net for info. One of my favorite Auto-x events each year.
FYI
CB

[CraigS]

Here ya go
National Road Autosport website
And if they are having a bar-b-q dinner at the docs house you absolutely want to go there. He has a collection of about 30 significant Corvettes that will blow your mind.