Aesthetic feedback requested

[Tennessee Tim]

I'm starting the layout to cut the car in half...

Doing a tilt-front. I think I have settled on a cut line that mirrors the curve of the door opening. However, I have looked at it so much now that I can't really tell anymore if it looks good. So, before I pull out the scalpel, don't pull any punches. What do you think?





Tim

[Steven K]

I like it. I wish I had the guts to try it myself.

[Rob]

Is the hood going to be bonded shut? If NOT than you have a very skinny piece of fiberglass above the hood opening. If it is bonded looks great.

[Riptide Motorsport]

Check out member DALLAS here is his blog, you can see your car/work done already and painted, pictures about 3/4 down the page:

Myers Family FFR Build

[TAnderson]

I dig it! I think you can pull it off. Good luck!

[spider larry]

I would be worried about the small strip of body around the side pipe exit. I think it would be a very weak area and hard to reinforce. Why not cut all the way to the ottom of the body?

[MPTech]

I like it alot! I'd love to have a flip-front.

The cut lines look good to me. I'm assuming you are going to mount and stiffen the lower section, particularly around the exhaust cut-out (as previously mentioned).

[dallas_]

Sweet!

But like the others have said, you might want to think about moving your cut back a little closer to the cockpit.

[QSL]

i like your layout a lot, however i am just not sold on the idea. I understand why someone would want that. Its a HUGE benifit, but in my opinion It modifies the look of the body a lot even when its closed.

I guess what i am saying is if its something you totally dig, go for it, but if you are hesitant, you should wait and think about it more.

What if there was a way to use the hood normally but be able to remove the front clip if you needed to access the inside? Perhaps using the door line? Just throwing out crap. Dont know if you like the look or going for access ease.

Then again, its your dream car. Make it the way YOU want But i do like the look of the lines you layed out.

[xlr8or]

I agree with Larry. Take it all the way down the side. Cleaner and easier to keep aligned with the remaining body. You'll be able to glass in a lip for it to seal against all the way across.

[COMPETITIONCOBRA]

As usual I am one of the few that doesn't like the idea and will have something negative to say about this mod. This chassis does not look visually attractive so exposing it really doesn't seem like a great idea and unless you do a bunch of mods to the 3/4" square tubing by cleaning things up. Whats the point, access to the engine compartment is only marginally better. The gain does not seen worth the effort except for having someone say, look a ...tilt front end on a Cobra. Sorry but this was a 60's and 70's mod that should stay in those eras.

[Fezzek]

I'm all for the tilt front myself. Anything to make maintenance/access easier in the future.

Martin

Originally Posted by COMPETITIONCOBRA

As usual I am one of the few that doesn't like the idea and will have something negative to say about this mod. This chassis does not look visually attractive so exposing it really doesn't seem like a great idea and unless you do a bunch of mods to the 3/4" square tubing by cleaning things up. Whats the point, access to the engine compartment is only marginally better. The gain does not seen worth the effort except for having someone say, look a ...tilt front end on a Cobra. Sorry but this was a 60's and 70's mod that should stay in those eras.

[Mikey_P]

I like it! And I think it is one of those things that make your car unique to you.

I would leave the cut on the bottom but move the line across the top further toward the cockpit. It seems like it would afford you more access to the rear of the engine compartment.

I would contact Dallas and/or Stinson Pilot for opinions about the execution and what to avoid. It always helps to pick the brain of somebody who has done it.

[JKleiner]

The line looks good but are you planning on wipers? If so install the windshield and mock them up fully before cutting because I can see the potential for a problem. On Mk4s the windshield is closer to the back of the hood opening than earlier cars. There is barely room for the shafts, bezels and arms. Your mod uses up part of that space.

Good luck and be sure to show us pics as you progress!

Jeff

[Thumper135]

I’ve only seen one of these that was done, and its cut lines were very close to yours. Looked really cool and it did make the access to the under hood stuff a little easier. The biggest advantage is, if anything has to be done like removing the engine, you can simply unbolt the nose and remove it to get to about anything.
The only thing I could add would be that “Section” by the pipes can be a hindrance when you have to work on the car for anything. The owner said that every time he stepped up to the car, he really had to remember it was there so he didn’t run his feet into it. On his car, the “Elephant Ear” panel at the back of the wheel opening stopped at the bottom of the tilt section leaving a substantial open space at the bottom for things to enter that area and it showed on the pipes and foot boxes. That said, with the thin area of body behind the hood, I would defiantly bond the hood on.
Good luck with the project, keep us up on the progress. That will look cool……

[Tennessee Tim]

Thanks for the input, everyone. Please keep it up. I want to make sure I have thought of everything.

To answer a few questions:

The hood will be bonded in. The cut line is close to the hood opening to allow room for wipers. Without the windshield on, it is difficult to visualize how close the cut it to where the windshield will be. Before taking the windshield back off, I traced its position in the cowl. There is just enough room for wipers and the trim bezels for the wheelboxes.

I can't run the cut line to go all the way down for one primary reason - the body curves back in at the bottom, and it simply will not work. The strip of body at the bottom will be reinforced. I haven't sorted out all of the details of that just yet, but I have some ideas. The elephant ears will stay attached to the body and one of my ideas is to use them to help reinforce that strip. There will also be a strip of aluminum angle that will go across the top of the strip to act as a landing pad for the hood. That angle will also reinforce the strip.

As for the why of it all, I have given this a great deal of thought. I do understand that the entire aesthetic of the car is altered slightly with the addition of another body gap. That's one of the reasons that I am putting some much thought and effort into making that gap look as "natural" as possible. On the plus side of aesthetics, the glassed-in hood will make the hood area much smoother-looking and more appealing in my opinion.

I am doing this primarily for one reason - access to the engine bay. I disagree that access will only be marginally better. It will be immeasureably better. Additionally, I will design the hinges such that the removal of a couple of bolts will allow the removal of the entire hood. As mentioned, this will make pulling the engine a breeze. I also designed the footbox access panels to be much larger since with the tilt-front, they can be. I want the car to be easily servicable, and the tilt-front is a slam dunk from that perspective.

I know it's not for everyone and I expected a few dissenters. In fact, best I can tell, it has only been done three times before (for members of this forum) by dallas, Stinson Pilot and Wild Bill. I have read all of their threads very carefully, and have gotten many great ideas from them.

Thanks again for the ideas and constructive input. Please keep them coming.

Tim

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by Tennessee Tim

I am doing this primarily for one reason - access to the engine bay. I disagree that access will only be marginally better. It will be immeasureably better. Additionally, I will design the hinges such that the removal of a couple of bolts will allow the removal of the entire hood. As mentioned, this will make pulling the engine a breeze. I also designed the footbox access panels to be much larger since with the tilt-front, they can be. I want the car to be easily servicable, and the tilt-front is a slam dunk from that perspective.

I can tell you from experience that is true. I had to pull my engine recently. It takes about 3 minutes to remove the whole front clip. Needless to say it's a bit easier to remove and reinstall the engine with the front off.

It also makes it easier to get to those webers.

[tirod]

Is it what AC did? No. Is it what you want to do? Go ahead!

Some of us need to be reminded that it was done a long time ago, by a very skilled professional, with previous experience as a corporate engineer working on the Corvette. When he was approached about improving the Cobra's aerodynamics, it's exactly what he came up with - tilt front.

His name was Pete Brock, and the end result was the Daytona Coupe. So, get over yourselves a bit. A tilt front end is exactly what Shelby American DID adopt as an evolutionary improvement.

There were other models with tilt front ends in the sport car market - like the Spitfire. Most in that era were based on frame chassis designs. By the '80s, a lot weren't on the market due to emissions and safety. And, unibody doesn't suffer the challenges very well. Implying it's limited to an era isn't accurate- it's limited to a type chassis, and the application is very definitely useful. Over the road trucks have kept it for over 50 years.

Let's not forget all those other guys with tilt bodies - in the back. GT40, Pantera, GTM, etc etc. High performance cars built for the purpose - not just muscled up taxi cabs - are more likely to have tilt bodywork. The Cobra was part of that genre, and putting one on it is part and parcel of what it does. If that seems out of place, where does power steering, power brakes, a/c, and all the rest of that fit in?

Better the tilt front.

[dallas_]

And don't forget the original tilt front Cobra, CSX 2196 aka 'the turd'.

[Tennessee Tim]

Originally Posted by tirod

Is it what AC did?

No, but it is what Carroll Shelby did in the very first 427 prototype:



Tim

[Tennessee Tim]

Beat me to it...



Tim

[dallas_]

And it has hood louvers too.

I really don't mind comments from people who don't like it. The world would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything. I happen to like it, and that's why I borrowed the quote from another forum member for my signature.

[Tennessee Tim]

Speaking of louvers, aren't yours from Maier Racing? I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I want to keep those Webers as cool as possible.

Tim

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by Tennessee Tim

Speaking of louvers, aren't yours from Maier Racing? I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I want to keep those Webers as cool as possible.

Tim

Yep. And that's why we added those too.

[uncle_darnell]

Originally Posted by Tennessee Tim

Speaking of louvers, aren't yours from Maier Racing? I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I want to keep those Webers as cool as possible.

Tim

Dont know if you have seen them yet or not but a guy (Shane, I think) on the GTM forum makes some really nice form fitting CNC'd hood louvers for the Cobra http://vraptorspeedworks.com/custom-roadster-parts/ This is his website.

[jeffstout]

I cut mine a few months ago. it will open with remote control actuators. I am also doing a major rebuild after 7 years and hope to be finished soon.

[KC Wildcat]

I am a function over form guy first. You may have already done this, but I would look at others who have done the tilt front end and posted pics. See how they did it and what looks best - then take the best design and make it look good. I seem to remember someone who did it with locating pins fabbed into the sills to help locate and secure the front end down low near the cowl. I recall reading that thread and going "Wow, that is extremely well thought out and looks great too. I would also look where the existing frame supports are to make it easier to fab mounting and support structure where you make the cuts.

In a nutshell, engineer it first, see how best to do it, then let that be a major determining factor in where to make your cut lines. If you have done that already and like where you lines are go for it.

Something I have learned - keep things simple and execute them perfectly is better than a complex solution that is much harder to make perfect and and gives you a 90% result.

[CraigS]

I like it. I really like your idea of a mirror of the door line. Notice the Turd. It has square door lines and a square hood line so it's a mirror like yours will be. Look at a Jag E-type-square doors and square hood. I say do it! One thing to think about is the hinge point. Back in the day,working on E-types, I didn't like the tilt front. The problem was it didn't open very far so it was common to go to stand up from working on the engine and jam the corner of the hood into your back. The issue w/ them was a hinge point far back from the long overhang of the snout so the upward movement was limited by the lower edge of the snout hitting the ground. W/ the flat front end of the FFR and a well chosen hinge point you should be able to make the hood go pretty near vertical.Good luck and keep posting!

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by CraigS

One thing to think about is the hinge point. Back in the day,working on E-types, I didn't like the tilt front. The problem was it didn't open very far so it was common to go to stand up from working on the engine and jam the corner of the hood into your back. The issue w/ them was a hinge point far back from the long overhang of the snout so the upward movement was limited by the lower edge of the snout hitting the ground. W/ the flat front end of the FFR and a well chosen hinge point you should be able to make the hood go pretty near vertical.Good luck and keep posting!

Good point. There is a spot that allows the front to tilt up as far as you would want it to go.

[The Federalist Patriot]

Tim, this might help a little bit. Not the same body but it might be useful.

289 Lemans Replica Build

You could also reach out to Bruce Chervenak. I'm sure he has some tips for things to keep in mind.

Jim