Ford vs. Pep Boys

[Hunter 2]

Went to Ford yesterday to buy an oil pressure switch. The guy behind the counter...THE PARTS GUY!!!...had trouble identifying the part even though I had the part I removed from my engine with me.

Almost 5 minutes later a crowd of 4 mechanics had gathered around him to talk about the part and tell him which code to punch in the computer to find it... he found it.

I had purchased a new one last year from Pep Boys for my Mark II so I had an idea what it would cost for the Mark IV but I figured that since Ford Service is located at the end of the street where I live (yes, convenient) I'd stop there first.

So the guy pulls up the price and when he tells me I laughed out loud in front of him and the other four guys. He said the part was $110.59.

After I finished laughing I told him I'd walk over to Pep Boys (yes, five minutes away from my house) and get the part for $9. Which I did. I wanted to go back over there and show him my receipt and the part but had to run another errand. I realize he doesn't set the price but it just goes to show you how dealers can rip us off if we are not aware as consumers.

The pic below is the new part.

[2FAST4U]

The money is always in parts sales.

[Vasnakeman]

must be a cheap knock off from lativia

[QSL]

I am suprised you were able to get tards in "PEPTOYS" to figure it out either. I honestly dont know how it it by you, but over here, a majority of their stock is scooters, mini bikes and RC cars. The guys at the counter i am pretty sure have never turned a wrench in their life. When they need to ask you what size wheels your car has to give you a water pump for a 302 block, you know your in trouble.

Glad it worked for you though, thats a stupid price. You could buy a gauge with the sender for less then that.

[ROADRACER83]

Parts and service as a profit center. I work a few days a week in a parts store in Seattle. We get people in all the time that have gotten a quote for some service work from a local dealer and come in to see if we can help a little bit. Obviously the foreign car dealers are the worst offenders, but Ford seems to be on quest to screw people who don't do their homework. I had an older gentleman come in a week ago and he had a printed quote from the local Ford dealer for 6 spark plugs and wires for a 3 year old explorer. It had less than 25,000 miles on it, but the dealer said it needed new plugs and wires, and it was just out of warranty they said and plugs aren't covered anyway. I'm not sure that is true. The quote was for $430 dollars!!! I found one of our wholesale independent repair shops that put $58 worth of NGK double platinum plugs and premium plug wires on the car even though they were pretty sure it didn't need them. The customer insisted, however so they charged him 2 hours of labor also at $65 an hour. Plus they did an engine diagnostic test, checked the timing, changed the oil and filter for an additional $24 and vacumed it out and washed all the windows. We see that type of example every week.

I know the dealers need to make money, but they will lose more and more business to independent shops if they keep that up. I think they are starting the follow the Hewlett Packard model, give them the printer at cost so you can get the supplies and service business.

Ron

[Hunter 2]

Thanks for the insight Ron. Yeah...the Hewlet Packard business model will bite you in the end.

[emac]

Well, I feel very lucky. I have two fords that a bought from a local dealer. He just replaced the a/c blend door on my 2009 f150 out of warranty for ......free. They had to remove the entire dash to get to the part. He said he gets money from Ford every month to help out in these situations. They also replaced the entire carpet on my wife's expedition after a battery, that I left in the car, tipped over, for $250.

He will deliver a car to my house, give me a loaner, never a problem.

He grilled me about my ffr roadster, as he wants to help out the local tech school in building one.

I agree, I have rarely had a dealer treat me well, especially BMW. This dealer does it right and so long as Ford has something worth buying, I will stick with them. Firmin Ford in Laurens, SC.

Ernest

[DWIGHT]

a couple of months ago on a Saturday we had a buddy with a C-4 in a 34 Ford that was leaking. I took it to Coach's shop and put it up on his lift. The gasket was leaking trannie fluid. We remove the fluid and pan. While Lawrence was cleaning the pan I called Advance Auto parts to see if they had a gasket. They did not have one in stock but could get one Monday morning for $12. O'Reilly could get one Monday for $8 and Auto Zone could get one by 6 PM for $9. I told me to order it. After I looked at the chrome plate Chinese trannie pan I told Jackie that the pan would leak even with a new gasket and we should buy a new one. So I called Auto Zone and canceled the order for the gasket.
Monday I drove a half mile down the road to a transmission wholesale house and bought the gasket for 94 cents. No one had a pan. Then I remember that I had a trannie in the back room of my shop with a good pan on it.

Problem solved for a $1.

Wholesale $1 and retail $8 to $12. Not a bad mark up.
Bought a ADO trannie filter for $4.60 at the same place a couple of weeks ago. All the other places wanted $16 to $50.

Dwight

[MK4]

When I was building m'y Mk4 i wanted to change the covers on the pedal of the car because one of them was worn out. So I went to Ford first to see how much this special GT edition from Ford would cost me fort the set (4), well came out to 300$ needless to say, they kept them!!!

I went on Line and found on e-bay (direct from the manufacturer in Detroit) the same kit and it cost me a wopping 33$ shipped to m'y door step... We need to do our homework especially in this global economy


Mk4

[Mark Reid]

Originally Posted by ROADRACER83

I think they are starting the follow the Hewlett Packard model, give them the printer at cost so you can get the supplies and service business.

Ron

Ron, this is actually the Schick model. Give them the razor and sell them the blades. Billions were made until disposables eroded their market. In response they added two blades, then a pivoting head, then a lube strip, then three blades, then four blades, etc. Each time the disposable countered until blade for blade it was just slightly cheaper than the replacable blade model.

It seems that dealer prices are becoming similar to military prices.

[tirod]

There's more than one of those oil senders - which wrong one did you want to get? Without knowing the original make, year, and model, most parts inventory systems are clueless. And parts guys don't make a career of it for 8.50 an hour. Nobody retires on that.

Please don't insult the guy at the counter. He doesn't set the pricing, but he does have to keep dealing with customers who rub the situation in his face with their snarky know it all attitude. It's in your best interest to keep him as an ally - there will be a day when you have no other choice, and he could be more amenable to giving you the professional shop discount. My dealer did after I spent some face time with them as a good customer.

As for needing to know what wheel size for an oil sender unit, it's the menu layouts from corporate programmers. The bunch a lot of similar parts on the same pages, and one just might be sensitive to it, like an ABS sensor. So the "stupid" question comes up. Funny, most customers know if the refrigerator has an ice maker, but no clue what size the rims are. It can make a difference, and it's the factory engineers who dictate that. We all have to live with their decisions.

I'm going to strongly suggest that the level of customer service one receives is intimately linked to how they treat the guy behind the counter. You give respect, you get respect. And please don't launch a self righteous rant laced with corporate phraseology about taking care of the customer. Those of us who work retail live with the passing fads over the years, we've heard it all. The reality at the counter is a lot different. It's simple human interaction, and if you want good service, be a good customer. Frankly, we prefer to treat every one the same - after all, we don't have any idea who you might be. But those who demand genuflection and ring kissing with no apparent justification just might consider what they look like to the other customers there. And that does get around, it's a public witness to what they think of themself.

Now everybody knows.

[AC Bill]

Just processing a parts invoice at the larger dealership I worked at, from start to finish, costs way more than $10.
There is the cost of the Partsman's time initially, who at our dealership, were all certified and licensed journeyman, none of which made less than $25 an hour. Then there is the cashier, who handles the money transaction. The accountant, who's desk the invoice eventually cross's. and then the office clerk, who finally files it. Even with modern computers, there is still a paper trail.
Part of the sale also goes to the Parts Managers salary, and the General Managers salary. Then there is the overhead costs of the building, and property, taxes, phones, lights, advertising and promotion, etc etc...only after all this is taken into account, does the Dealer Principal (owner) actually make a profit..

Thus the ridiculous mark up..
Our rule of thumb was if a part from the manufacture cost us less than $100, you marked it up 2.1 times the cost. Items that cost us more than $100 was marked up 1.85 times. Some competitive items, such as oil filters for example, were often sold with little to no mark up.
After all was said and done, the overall "net" profit the owner of the dealership would see were around 5-6%. This is on his initial investment of umpteen millions of dollars, that it cost him to build and open a large dealership..Overhead costs are far more, than a simple corner parts store.

Many owners of dealerships feel that the parts and service departments are "necessary evils", forced on them by the manufacture. If left to them, they would just sell cars, period.

[QSL]

Originally Posted by tirod

There's more than one of those oil senders - which wrong one did you want to get? Without knowing the original make, year, and model, most parts inventory systems are clueless. And parts guys don't make a career of it for 8.50 an hour. Nobody retires on that.

Please don't insult the guy at the counter. He doesn't set the pricing, but he does have to keep dealing with customers who rub the situation in his face with their snarky know it all attitude. It's in your best interest to keep him as an ally - there will be a day when you have no other choice, and he could be more amenable to giving you the professional shop discount. My dealer did after I spent some face time with them as a good customer.

As for needing to know what wheel size for an oil sender unit, it's the menu layouts from corporate programmers. The bunch a lot of similar parts on the same pages, and one just might be sensitive to it, like an ABS sensor. So the "stupid" question comes up. Funny, most customers know if the refrigerator has an ice maker, but no clue what size the rims are. It can make a difference, and it's the factory engineers who dictate that. We all have to live with their decisions.

I'm going to strongly suggest that the level of customer service one receives is intimately linked to how they treat the guy behind the counter. You give respect, you get respect. And please don't launch a self righteous rant laced with corporate phraseology about taking care of the customer. Those of us who work retail live with the passing fads over the years, we've heard it all. The reality at the counter is a lot different. It's simple human interaction, and if you want good service, be a good customer. Frankly, we prefer to treat every one the same - after all, we don't have any idea who you might be. But those who demand genuflection and ring kissing with no apparent justification just might consider what they look like to the other customers there. And that does get around, it's a public witness to what they think of themself.

Now everybody knows.

Then how can I go into napa and ask for a fuel pump for a 351 and have the guy turn around and go in the back to get one without looking in the computer?

Lastly, those guys making 8.50 hr are making that for a reason. The reason being that's all they want to make. Like I tell my guys, if you want to make more, work at THAT level today.

[QSL]

Originally Posted by AC Bill

Just processing a parts invoice at the larger dealership I worked at, from start to finish, costs way more than $10.
There is the cost of the Partsman's time initially, who at our dealership, were all certified and licensed journeyman, none of which made less than $25 an hour. Then there is the cashier, who handles the money transaction. The accountant, who's desk the invoice eventually cross's. and then the office clerk, who finally files it. Even with modern computers, there is still a paper trail.
Part of the sale also goes to the Parts Managers salary, and the General Managers salary. Then there is the overhead costs of the building, and property, taxes, phones, lights, advertising and promotion, etc etc...only after all this is taken into account, does the Dealer Principal (owner) actually make a profit..

Thus the ridiculous mark up..
Our rule of thumb was if a part from the manufacture cost us less than $100, you marked it up 2.1 times the cost. Items that cost us more than $100 was marked up 1.85 times. Some competitive items, such as oil filters for example, were often sold with little to no mark up.
After all was said and done, the overall "net" profit the owner of the dealership would see were around 5-6%. This is on his initial investment of umpteen millions of dollars, that it cost him to build and open a large dealership..Overhead costs are far more, than a simple corner parts store.

Many owners of dealerships feel that the parts and service departments are "necessary evils", forced on them by the manufacture. If left to them, they would just sell cars, period.

Just about all businesses work off a net that low, BUT that includes the salary of the president. The net profit is never paid out to anyone. If it was, then no business would ever grow.

[G-Pete]

Freedom of choice, still many uniformed buyers out there who pay the "dealer prices".

[CraigS]

I have had it go all ways. My wife went to the Ford dealer a few months ago for wipers for her Mustang. She hadn't mentioned the need to me but it rained that day so she stopped in. Came home w/ 2 complete blades and I thought sure she had gotten ripped-why not just inserts? Big ooooops, she paid less than $30 for the pair at the dealer where she had never been. I've gone to advance auto for something for the FFR and started all the menus stuff w/ 91 Mustang GT. Wow that can be a pain. OTOH, i went to Napa after calling to see if the had plasti-gage. The first guy said.. what kind of gauge was that? Fortunately there was an older guy who told him what to look for. I worked in two Lexus dealers for 20 yrs. Unfortunately, even w/ the computer they had which I think is one of the best, there were times when we needed the guy who had been there 12 yrs to help out. Sometimes it's a management thing. One dealer moved to a new building half way thru my stay. In the first, all the similiar things were shelved together. All the plastic body clips were on one shelf unit so, if they didn't have the one that was supposed to fit, you could usually find something that would work a few bins over. The new building was set up so that the most commonly sold parts were near the counter. Working their way back based on annual sales. So all those plastic clips were scattered throughout the department. We considered that we had been f---ked and so did the parts guys. I agree that attitude will win the day cause these parts guys mostly want to help but their systems make it very hard.

[Hunter 2]

Originally Posted by tirod

There's more than one of those oil senders - which wrong one did you want to get? Without knowing the original make, year, and model, most parts inventory systems are clueless. And parts guys don't make a career of it for 8.50 an hour. Nobody retires on that.

Please don't insult the guy at the counter. He doesn't set the pricing, but he does have to keep dealing with customers who rub the situation in his face with their snarky know it all attitude. It's in your best interest to keep him as an ally - there will be a day when you have no other choice, and he could be more amenable to giving you the professional shop discount. My dealer did after I spent some face time with them as a good customer.

As for needing to know what wheel size for an oil sender unit, it's the menu layouts from corporate programmers. The bunch a lot of similar parts on the same pages, and one just might be sensitive to it, like an ABS sensor. So the "stupid" question comes up. Funny, most customers know if the refrigerator has an ice maker, but no clue what size the rims are. It can make a difference, and it's the factory engineers who dictate that. We all have to live with their decisions.

I'm going to strongly suggest that the level of customer service one receives is intimately linked to how they treat the guy behind the counter. You give respect, you get respect. And please don't launch a self righteous rant laced with corporate phraseology about taking care of the customer. Those of us who work retail live with the passing fads over the years, we've heard it all. The reality at the counter is a lot different. It's simple human interaction, and if you want good service, be a good customer. Frankly, we prefer to treat every one the same - after all, we don't have any idea who you might be. But those who demand genuflection and ring kissing with no apparent justification just might consider what they look like to the other customers there. And that does get around, it's a public witness to what they think of themself.

Now everybody knows.

SMH. You obviously have issues that need to be resolved. The "wrong" one I wanted to get was the one matching the year, model, make, and the engine size I explained to the guy behind the counter. I only took the part along to provide him with a visual. He had more info than he needed. During the transaction there was no space, room, or time for attitude. I simply told him the part I was looking for and moved to the side while he looked for it for five minutes. I also didn't join the conversation when the other four joined him to tell him the code for the part. I just waited to the side till they were finished. My laugh was 100% about the shock of hearing the price. It had nothing to do with him so you are way off in your assumption about THIS customer.

[Burnett H]

Originally Posted by AC Bill

Many owners of dealerships feel that the parts and service departments are "necessary evils", forced on them by the manufacture. If left to them, they would just sell cars, period.

Wow. This is the first time ever I have heard that. Any dealership I have ever dealt with has said that parts and the shop are both great profit centers. I have even had one dealer tell me that if he could sell original equipment parts without having to sell cars, he would do so.

Sounds like your dealership really needs to streamline the office end of the business.

[Thumper135]

I had an encounter at Pep Boys once when my 73 Mach 1 spewed an upper radiator hose. I told the kid behind the counter I needed an upper radiator hose for a 73 Mach 1..... he replied, "is that a Ford or a Chevy?" you have to love it. On the flip side of that coin, I worked for about two years behind the counter part tie and loved it when some one would send their wife to get something. They would send their wife because they didn't know what they were looking for and she would give me the part they took off and say I need one of these. So, I would ask what it was off of, Yep, they would say our (add color here) car. Inevitably, we would call the MAN of the house up to discover he didn't really know what he had taken off, he just did it because a friend told him he heard about something like that and he might need to change it... It was quite a learning experience. It really goes both ways you know.

As far as dealers go , a long time ago I had a door handle on my Lincoln brake, my friend at the local Lincoln dealer said to go to Ford to get it from an LTD. same handle and part number, only about $28.00 cheaper. Go figure. The one from Lincoln didn't even say "Lincoln " on it.

It never hurts to check around, then go to the dealer just for a good laugh.

[SP3]

Motorcycle dealers are no different. And in the case of Ducati, even worse. Valve stem seals for example. Last time I called dealers, I was told $11 by one and $17 by another. That is EACH. That's when I started to sell them occasionally for around $2.50 each and make enough on a set of eight to buy myself a couple beers and save the buyers enough for a bottle of decent liquor. And, they don't have to wait for the parts to come from Italy (dealers never stock them). It pays to do some homework, know what fits/works, and shop around whether cars, bikes, etc.

[SP3]

Originally Posted by Thumper135

....and loved it when some one would send their wife to get something. They would send their wife because they didn't know what they were looking for and she would give me the part they took off and say I need one of these. So, I would ask what it was off of, Yep, they would say our (add color here) car. Inevitably, we would call the MAN of the house up to discover he didn't really know what he had taken off, he just did it because a friend told him he heard about something like that and he might need to change it... It was quite a learning experience. It really goes both ways you know.

I had the opposite happen sort of. Sent my wife with the fuel filter off my Ducati Monster to AZone with exact details of where it is in the store. It is a bog-standard Purolator filter that hangs on the rack of every AZone store in the country. She comes home without. "What happened?" Clerk asks her what she is looking for, she tells him, he asks what it's for, she tells him, he says 'ma'am we don't sell motorcycle parts here. You need to go to the dealer' She's flustered and forgets to even look for herself. I was f'ing pissed and went back with filter in hand. Walked through the store, making sure every clerk saw the filter, found the one I needed, placed it on the counter and walked out. Went to another just down the way, bought the filter ($4 vs. $15 or so at the dealer) and went home to install it. Again, it pays to know what fits/works so you don't have to deal with the typical modern day parts store cash register jockey.

[AC Bill]

Originally Posted by Burnett H

Wow. This is the first time ever I have heard that. Any dealership I have ever dealt with has said that parts and the shop are both great profit centers. I have even had one dealer tell me that if he could sell original equipment parts without having to sell cars, he would do so.
Sounds like your dealership really needs to streamline the office end of the business.

The big problem is, most of the GM's at car dealerships were always just car salesman, and never worked in parts or service. Car sales departments only pays commissions to sales staff, not full time salaries, like parts and service staff, and managers.
When car sales are at rock bottom, it's often the parts and service dept's that keeps the dealership afloat, but they aren't given much credit for it. When car sales are really good, those other departments just seem to cost a lot of money every month..

[Avalanche325]

I lived in New Zealand a couple of times
Car parts down there are REALLY expensive. How about this from a parts store:

Oil filter for a Mitsubishi - $54.00 for a no name brand.
Spark plugs (6) for an Afla Romeo - $300.00 No bull, platinum plugs, nothing special.
Cam belt change at dealer for the Alfa - $2000. I did it for $300 in parts. It WAS a PITA. Quad cam transverse engine. I ordered the parts from England for half of what I could get them for in NZ.

So even the bad prices here would be good prices there.

Gas...$8.00 / gallon.

[Flying Dutchman2]

Then there is the guy who insists the computer is always correct, Took a power steering hose off my 64 Impala to order a replacement - clerk says we have one in stock and comes out with something totally different than the original I have in my hand. We discussed this fact and he promptly replied "the computer says this is the correct part" Not even a hummmmm.

[tirod]

If I have an issue, it's based on this:

"After I finished laughing I told him I'd walk over to Pep Boys (yes, five minutes away from my house) and get the part for $9. Which I did. I wanted to go back over there and show him my receipt and the part ..."

It's very apparent you wanted to rub it in somebody's face when you come here and tell us.

I had a customer this evening who came in with two rotors to turn. I've been doing it for years, and can practically eyeball one before it's set on the counter and see it's junk. BUT - I give the owner the benefit of the doubt first. Called up the correct final cut dimension per the customer's make, year, and model, get the brake caliper (the measuring tool,) and measure.

It's over .100" too small already, it's been junk since last year and needed replacement then. So I tell the customer the price of a new (Chinese) rotor is $33.99, in stock.

He launches a tirade that he can get them for $16 on the internet with free shipping every day of the week, he can't afford my stuff. I reply I'd like to know where from, I'd be interested. It goes back and forth, he leaves. One of the other guys walks up and says, "Oh, he was pretty nice this time, I've waited on him at AZ. He's been a jerk for years."

Never did ask him why he came to my store if he already knew where a cheap rotor was - why bother driving all the way with the rotors in hand and get the answer he could look up online? Our inventory and price are right there already. Apparently, he simply wasn't prepared for the fact that brakes wear out.

One the other hand, there are those countermen who are still learning. NOBODY walks into the job completely skilled, and most of the time is spent looking for parts that aren't easy to find in the books or menus. But, if someone has the ability to walk down the aisle and pull a part number off the top of their head, I'm going to suggest they don't work for a major retailer selling parts. The top three auto parts stores rotate suppliers like an ear of corn, negotiating contracts and swapping brands faster than their underwear. When I started, I sold Carter - who just about lost everything on a lifetime guarantee for electric fuel pumps. I'm on the forth vendor since then, and no part number is sacrosanct. As soon as you memorize one, they are obsolete.

That drives even more dependency on the menu and getting the correct application. The auto makers don't help either - for 2011 and into the future, Dodge trucks are NOT listed under Dodge, because Dodge calls them Ram, now, and we had to give it a separate listing. And God help the new counterman who has a customer with a '99 Silverado. Chevy actually made it it's own model that year, selling them side by side with the C1500 with Silverado trim option. The public calls them ALL "Silverado," you have to ask if it's a 350 or 5.3 - and the answer is usually, "Vortec." Like that helps, even the Pontiac Grand Am four cylinder is a Vortec.

So we basically have to deftly fight the owners own ignorance and the few who feel it necessary to abuse the counterman.

What I've learned is that the average consumer is vastly ignorant about working retail sales - and needs to. It would be a huge wakeup call to the reality that we as a service industry trying to meet the needs of the public have a huge burden - the public doesn't even know what they want in most cases. Sure, they are looking for a solution to their problem, no, they have no training or clue how, and some reasonable doubt who to trust.

I'll keep that in mind when someone comes in with their pool filter pump O ring, because they were told "The Auto Parts store has them." No, we don't, never did. Why I get the dirty looks when their ignorant friend is at fault is something I have to deal with - so excuse me while I tap dance around it for five minutes to let the customer down gently so they won't call corporate to say I'm a jerk and won't sell them what they want.

Being truthful in this business has to be done very carefully, but guess what - this is the internet, I can say things flat out. You don't have to like them, but it doesn't change the facts.

Find a good parts man and stick with him, he will help and willingly. You don't have to have just one - we know that, cultivate one at each potential supplier and work the odds. Somebody just might carry that low demand part the other accountants nixed in their inventory. Treat us like another human being and we'll be happy to work hard for you.

Or treat us like the OP, and expect clueless looks and dumb questions. We can do that well, too.

[Mike Forte]

Hi Guys,
I've been working in the automotive parts business since high school. I started my business (with no help of the government) over 30 years ago. Knowing the business i knew I would have to purchase the parts to sell at warehouse distributor pricing (WD) in order to sell them. I also knew that making and designing parts was needed in order to hve a "niche" in the business. So I have deve;oped tons of specialty parts and broght them to market so I could sell parts. The biggest challenge is to compete with the mail order like Summit & JEGS with the same products that mail order is selling and very low margins. Some people think there is BIG profits in parts (I wish). The products tthat are shopped most are the most expensive with the smallest margins. The Ford Racing crate engines have between a 10% & 4%. The BOSS engines have the 4%!!!! I have always thought if you could say to a customer, "give me 10% markup over invoice pricing", I could get a boost is markup.
I will agree that the dealer is the most expensive place to purchase parts in most cases. And the sales guys are almost useless when it comes to knowing the cars and the parts that make a car run....
It does save to know the parts & the cars. That's what I try to do in order to best serve the customer. I just wish the economy could support more sales, I would like to afford to hire some good parts sales help for me.

[Hunter 2]

Tirod...you're completely wrong on this one. The parts guy has been sitting behind that counter since 2006 when I first got Mark II 2329. While I have used the service department for years I've only used the parts department maybe three times since 2006. I'm actually pretty well known over there due to the roadster.

As originally stated, my post was about consumers being aware of the differences in pricing and realizing that they have options. Simple.

I understand that you work in a parts department and may have some feelings about customers. If you'd like to start a thread about customers and customer service, I'd be glad to read along but this is about pricing.