Trunk hinge twist issues

[btoll]

I recently had the car painted and after installing my trunk struts a few weeks ago I just noticed that the paint next to one of the hinges has started to peel up and get "pushed/rolled" like a carpet. I'm goint to take the hinge off and fix the paint as best I can, but I want to prevent it from occuring in the future.

I believe the root of the problem is the curve of the body/trunk "twists" the hinges as the trunk lid opens. I was planning on limiting the height the trunk opens by moving the mount point for the struts on the lid. But how much should limit the travel?

Are there other tips for ways of addressing this? I know internal hignes woudl help this, but that ship has sailed. Do the the gas struts contribute to this problem somehow by torqing the lid or something?

Thanks,
Bret

[Wade Chamberlain]

there's a RH and LH orientation to the hinges. Make sure you have them on the correct sides so the pins are parallel to the ground. They're designed to follow the curvature of the body.

[Joe]

What Wade said.. Normally if they are on the wrong sides they will break after opening a closing the lid a few times.

I made my own little gaskets to go between the hinges and paint. I used thin plastic from a milk jug.

[btoll]

Thanks guys. I'm nearly positive they on the correct side. I know they were when I sent it for paint. I suppose it's possible that they put them on backword, but I really don't think so. I'll check to be sure when I get home tonight.

I like the idea of the gaskets. I'll see about doing something similar. Good use of a milk jug.

How far should the trunk open? I really think they're correct on L/R, but maybe the hinges aren't perfectly straight with the body. That could put some "bind" in things as the lid opens because the pins of the separte hinges would not be on exactly the same geometric line.

Thanks,
Bret

[convincor]

How much clearance is there with lid closed?

[clays123]

Wade and Joe are correct. I wished I knew that before learning the hard way. If you put them on wrong they WILL seem correct to the eye but WILL break when you open the trunk. Switch them around and see.

Originally Posted by Joe

What Wade said.. Normally if they are on the wrong sides they will break after opening a closing the lid a few times.

I made my own little gaskets to go between the hinges and paint. I used thin plastic from a milk jug.

[btoll]

Convincor, I'm not exactly sure what "clearance" yout mean. There is probably about a 3/16" (maybe 1/8") gap all the way around the trunk if that's what you mean. Or are you talking about extra distance for the gas struts?

Clay, I'm really pretty sure the hinges are correct. I'll confirm when I get home, but I've had the trunk opened and closed dozens of times since I got it home from paint. This "twisting" is something that occurred recently, but I'm not exactly sure how long it took me to notice.

Also forgot to mention that my kit is a Mark II. It wouldn't surprise me if the shape changed a bit in that area over the years. I really think I remember hearing about this kind of twisting previously and thought I had it OK, but it looks like the paint added another level of "sticky" to the mechanism, exposing the binding in the system.

Thanks,
Bret

[Dan Babb]

Without paint on the car, the hinges were able to move a bit without any resistance. With paint on the car, now the edges of the hinge has something holding back, so it pushes the paint out of the way. It was probably always happening, but now you're able to see it.

IIRC, I had to open up the holes in the trunk just a bit so the hinge wouldn't bind when opening.

[Cheapsnake]

Sure sounds like a case of reversed hinges (ask me how i know). Regardless of the cause, the fix is to fashion a couple "escutcheon" plates out of aluminum or stainless just large enough to cover the damage. I did it and forgot they were even there until your post reminded me.

Tom

[convincor]

Yes, the gap. 1/8" really isn't enough.
If you find the hinges are on the correct sides, what you could do is make a couple shims as mentioned and put them under the hinges just on the body side to rise the lid just a bit. Helps with clearance when opening ...
And if you can, open the holes up a bit in the body and move the hinges back so the body portion of the hinge overhangs the edge.

[btoll]

Thanks for all the advice. I've confirmed that the hinges are in the correct locations. I've removed the struts and played with opening and closing the lid and I really don't see it twisting like I had assumed, but it is sure what the paint looks like. In loosening that hinge it was really bolted down very tight and I'm wondering if it was just too tight and "squished" the paint out.

I made a lot of modifications to the holes before sending it off to paint. The hinges hang significantly over the trunk opening otherwise I could never get the trunk to open at all.

I think I'll be able to lay the paint down again and it will be really subtle, but the idea of a base plate is a good one too.

My big concern right now is understanding why it happened so that I can avoid it happening again after I get the paint to lay down again.

[steno]

I've used the coffee can lid material for mine, but ended up using rubber roofing sheeting. It has a bit more "give" and is easy on the paint.

[btoll]

Well I really couldn't see the twist of the hinges, but when I put my fingers on them while opening the lid I could sure feel it wiggle. I think it's just that the axis of the hinge pins don't perfectly line up so as you swing the lid open they both "wiggle" a bit. I think this hinge was pulled down tighter so the paint was messed up there first.

I'm going to pull the lid off tonight and then try to fix the paint as best I can tomorrow. Then I'll make some kind of gasket that will stick to the paint and then the hinge can move a little against that gasket. The trick will be getting the trunk back in place and perfectly aligned without messing anything else up :-). Any helpful hints?

I like the coffee can lid material as it would be nearly invisible, but with the wiggle I can see that rubber might be good to provide a bit more play. But I don't want to mess up the alignment so I don't want anything too thick. What else have people used for this?

Thanks,
Bret

[convincor]

Originally Posted by btoll

Any helpful hints?
Thanks,
Bret

If your gonna be fixing paint anyway... Hidden hinges..

[KRUSTY990]

I know this comment won't help you but it may help someone with a build still in progress. As stated 1/8" is not enough gap IF you leave the hinges in the stock locations but if you simply move the hinges inward about 2-21/2" per side the gap can be set very tight with NO interference. The hinges can be mounted normally with pivot pin in the center of the joint. I have 50# gas shocks and after 4 years see no problem with glass deformation in the lid.
Hope this helps someone.

krusty

[btoll]

I'm going to "fix" the paint by using one of SRP's hints which is to dab some clear fingernail polish where the paint has peeled up and see if I can gently push it back in place, using the drying fingernail polish as a glue to hold it down. I'm sure it's not perfect but hopefulyl it will take out the roll/peel section. I'm not doing anything to fix the paint under where the hinge goes so the hidden hinges are still out.

Moving the hinges toward the center might help get the hinge pins on the same axis which would really help the "wiggle" problem I'm seeing. A possible drawback is that the trunk lid (at least on teh Mark II and III) have special indented sections for the hinge mount points. But as long as you can make it work (maybe get longer bolts to replace the short studs) it shoudl be OK.

I had to pick up some fingernail polish so tonight I'll try to get the paint repaired and then I'll start working ont he gaskets to go next to the paint.
-Bret

[convincor]

You can't move the hinges toward center without have a handy bunch of extra holes either...

[wibby]

Originally Posted by Joe

What Wade said.. Normally if they are on the wrong sides they will break after opening a closing the lid a few times.

I made my own little gaskets to go between the hinges and paint. I used thin plastic from a milk jug.

I made gaskets from 1/16" black ABS plasic. You can buy small sheets of it (smooth on both sides) from McMaster, or textured on one side from Parts Express (typically cheaper than McMaster).

Wibby

[btoll]

The clear finger nail polish worked well to help the paint flatten back down and stick in place. I even had some touch up paint and was able to make it look a little better. Last night I cut out some gaskets from some clear disposable container lid and I think it may end up being mostly OK.

Last night I went to test the gaskets with the bolt that goes into the body side of the hinge and discovered that somewhere along the way (either when I assembled it or when the painters put it back together) one side was cross threaded :-(. As I see it I've got 3 options:

1. Keep using it cross threaded - It seemed to be working for a few months before this. The "good" side has about 6 threads and the cross threaded one has about 3.
2. Buy a new hinge - I can always come back to this as a fallback. I really didn't want to have to take the hinges off the lid side as it's just that much more to get realigned.
3. Try to fix the threads - It's brass and not a through hole and I don't have any blunt end taps. I don't know how to do this and I'm afraid it wouldn't work well anyway with it this badly cross threaded and brass.

I'm thinking to just use it cross threaded and see if I can put it back the way it was when it was working. If it creates too much of a problem I can always buy new hinges anyway. Thoughts?

Another question: Does anyone sell aluminum or rubber gasket pieces specially sized for these hinges? I've made some and they look OK, but a stamped piece like this might look better and be able to cover a larger space (in case I make the mess worse).

Thanks,
Bret

[Lex]

Mine did that and as stated before the painter had the hinges switched. I ended up making rubber gaskets to go under the hinges just to hide the scuff marks.

[j.miller]

Hinge pins face each other to the inside. We use Mylar washers(get at most hardware stores) between the paint and hinge. With the hinges correct they still roll to the outside when you open the lid more then half way. try to never open the lid all the way. If you use the struts put a limiting strap on it.

[btoll]

Thanks Jeff. By Mylar washers do you mean thin, flat, white, slick, plastic ones? Is the idea that they will let the hinges rotate a little without rubbing against the paint? Or is the idea to add some "rubber" squishy-ness so that the hinges can move a little in other directions besides just "turn" on the axis of the mounting stud?

I've cut some "gaskets" out of clear plastic container and made that a little larger than the trunk hinge partially to help protect the paint on wiggles and partially to help hide the damaged paint. It may make sense to add another thin washer to help all any necessary movement. Would you recommend doing that?

As far as how far to open, I have the struts setup quite a ways toward the rear of the car on the trunk lid so it doesn't open all that far already. By "Half way" are you saying about a 45 degree angle for the top of the trunk lid?

When I was feelign the movement of the hinges on my setup, the largest movement came when the trunk lid was just a few (5-8) inches above closed. That seemed to be the point of the biggest "wiggle".

Thanks for the great advice.
-Bret

[j.miller]

Yes, the Mylar allows them rotate and also lifts the hinge off the paint. you could even double washer the front of the hinge. And yes the white ones (very thin). I have never seen hinges twist right from the start unless they are misaligned and are moving back to being centered. And yes,45 degrees.

[btoll]

Thanks much Jeff. I'll see if I can find a selection of mylar washers and put one between my clear gaskets and the hinges on the body side. I'll make sure the trunk doesn't open past 45 degrees and adjust the strut mount placement accordingly.

It's possible that the hinges were not perfectly parallel which woudl provide that "wiggle" as they rotate through their movement. It's a pretty small movement but apparently enough to create this issue with the paint.

I'll see if I can get it all back together this weekend and maybe post some pictures if possible. Thanks!!!