Oil Pan 302 Autocross

[Stoker]

I have been thinking I might need an oil pan for my setup. I put up an ad in parts wanted looking for what is out there. We use this car extensively for autocrossing with several drivers. I am running a SW electric oil pressure gauge that is very slow to react. It is hard to tell if it is ever starving for oil. We just had to put a crank in a Fox Mustang that we autocross and it worries me if there is an issue with these cars. I searched the archives at length and found posts from very fast autocrossers saying a roadrace oil pan was completely unneccessary. That would be a nice answer because of cost, leaks, and dipstick issues.

Please give me your opinions.

Thanks.

[Joe]

Jeff K. has been autocrossing for several years with an OEM Ford pan and experienced no problems. At least none that he told me about. I ran a few autocrosses with the OEM Ford pan and had no problems. Most autocrosses I have seen have very short turns that last for a very short periods of time. I think if you're going to stick to autocross you will be okay, just make sure you're not low on oil before the autocross. If you're going to run on a track with high-G turns that last for extended periods of time then you might want to look into getting a good road race pan. Just my opinion...

[ROADRACER83]

Stoker:

I don't think a higher capacity pan with good baffling and gates ever HURTS. Think about what your engine is experiencing in an autocross. Sustained high RPM's, high lateral "G" loads, hard acceleration and braking. The high RPM's send a lot of oil to the top of the engine then the oil has to drain back down through some small oil drain holes. The side loads tend to keep oil up in the valve covers. The oil thrown off the crank, lifters, and rockers is splashed all over the inside of the engine and takes time to return to the pan.

A 1 "G" sustained turn means the oil in the pan is at a 45 degree slope up the side of the pan to the outside of the turn holding the oil in the outside valve cover where it can't flow down. Hard acceleration moves the oil to the back and braking moves it forward. In an autocross you do a lot of cornering, accelerating and one or more very hard braking moves. It is very hard to measure your oil level when the engine is under those conditions, but it is not hard to imagine that there is at most a couple of quarts still in a 5 quart pan around the pickup. If you run your engine at least a quart over like you should, great, but you can't run 3 quarts over or the crank will be running in the oil when you are not on the track. A gated, baffled RR pan will help all this by increasing the amount of total oil capacity. OR, as an alternate, install a Canton or Moroso 2 or 3 quart accumulator. I have run these on road race cars where a dry sump was prohibited and they work great. You can run a stock pan and have essentially a 3 quart greater capacity without the hassles of replacing the pan or having it too low to the ground, etc. If you have a remote filter with lines, you can install an accumulator. If the pickup sucks a bubble the accumulator pushes oil back into the return line to keep the oil pressure up and oil flowing to the bearings. If you put a 16 PSI oil pressure switch in the oil galley near the pressure sender with a warning light on the dash, you might see what your bearings are actually experiencing. When your pump sucks an air bubble, it has to travel all the way through the engine pushing oil out of the way before it comes out somewhere. If that light comes on you have effectively no oil pressure at the time your engine needs if the most. Your gauge will react too slowly for you to see a pressure drop and you are too busy driving to check your gauge anyway.

Canton Racing Products

I am totally fricking amazed that otherwise smart people on this forum can't get an oil pan to not leak. There are some simple rules to follow and it is NOT the pan or the gaskets, it's how you install them.

Ron

[tirod]

One answer to the issue of oil running away from the pickup and pump starvation was invented quite a while back: The Accusump.

Since dry starts are the typical #1 cause of scored bearings, and high centripetal forces the #1 worry of road racers, I see the Accusump as the #1 answer - don't let the system run dry. If your type of racing can exceed the capacity of an Accusump, you may likely need a dry sump. That's assuming a scraper and windage tray didn't help first, oil actually sticks to cranks and can wrap two quarts around it. Good ol Smokey Yunick had that photographed in the '60's.

One approach would be to use anti oil surface coatings on the crank throws, rods, and block, a scraper, windage tray, a good pan, and an Accusump. The extra oil gets held in the Accusump in reserve until it's needed. And if it's needed, it automatically feeds right then, rather than sloshing around away from the pickup, keeping the oil system pressurized.

And it costs less than some of the superduper pans, too.

[Bigtim01]

I am running a KEVCO race oil pan for FFR, and a blueprinted "standard" volume ford racing oil pump.
The system capacity with oil filter is 8 qts. It also has a scrapper rail welded on one side.
When I can check my oil pressure it is always above 50 lbs and when I stab it I see 65+.
I have run only 1 supervised AutoX.
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HTH
Tim

[Frank Messina]

A baffled road race pan is the proper piece of hardware for the environment you're operating your car. Are there workarounds to spending the $300 for the pan? Sure, but not without their drawbacks. Overfilling the pan is good for a one time fling but that's it. Drowning the engine in oil to keep the pickup submerged is just not a good practice. Accusump is a nifty gadget that has some benefit, but you're adding another piece of hardware to the equatation that has its own failure record plus it will cost you at least $200 to get one plus all the hoses and install it. For a little more you can have a nice pan with none of the drawbacks. Your choice.

Frank

[CraigS]

I read a comment about the accusump theory a while ago that got me thinking. So your oil is on the side of the pan and the pump has no source so the accusump dumps in it's oil to keep the pressure up. Now you come out of the turn and the pump is sucking oil again. Well, that's not the end of it because, some of that oil goes to the engine, but some of it goes to refill the accusump. Sure got me thinking. Buy a roadrace pan!!

[Stoker]

It is clear that having a proper pan is the safest choice. I have not figured out which one to use. I am stuck on the fact that I do not want two sumps and two drain plugs in a car configured like the FFR. I want to be sure it does not hang below the frame and it must have a smart dipstick solution. My setup has the dipstick going through the pan. Price and quality obviously figure in as well.

[bstuke]

I have a Milodon road race pan. You have to order it with a pickup, it does not come with it. I also highly recommend the one piece seal they have as well.

I have had zero issues. It does not leak, it has a temp sensor bung, and it works well with the inexpensive Summitt Racing SS dipstick.

If you don't think you need one, I would train a video camera on your oil pressure gauge and go do a few laps, and see what happens..


And don't put a fancy dancy high volume/pressure oil pump in either. Just get a good standard volume Melling or blueprinted Melling, and you will be fine.

Mine runs 45 PSI solid, no fluctuations whatsoever.

[Wade Chamberlain]

Champ makes an affordable RR pan w/o 2 drains and doesn't hang below the frame rails (unless they changed something). Quality is decent for the price.

[Howff]

Call Gordon Levi he has a levi/champ road race pan it is only 7 inch deep I think its the best pan for the money very good quality.

[Cobra 302]

Levy Champ pan on mine.
Good insurance.

[quicksand]

Check the Breeze roadrace pan

[Scott L]

I am very happy with my Breeze pan -



Single magnetic drain plug. Sits above the ffr frame.

[mmarshall]

I autocrossed 2 seasons on my 302 with a champ pan and now run a 10 QT Champ on my LS1. Yes I am sold on Champ. Don't pay attention to the outside as all the good stuff (baffles and trap doors) are on the inside. Champ makes pans for turning corners, many others concentrate on drag racing.

Bottom of the Champ is above the bottom of the frame rails.

[Cone Basher]

Stoker: As I see it you have two choices.
1) Add an extra qt of oil for Auto-X but as Road racer pointed out that may not be enough for 1G turns even if they are short and see if it works.
2) Spend the extra $$ for a road race pan and avoid the hassle of replacing a crank due to spun bearings.
If it was me I'd add the RR pan. Using it will keep you from trying to monitor the oil pressure gauge as you try to drive your best line at your next Auto-X.
HTH
CB

[Wade Chamberlain]

looking at the pics above, champ must have changed thier design. My pan (8-10 years old) does not have two sumps and two drains.

[Alain V.]

I've used many different brands of pans in the past, and my favorite for performance driving small block fords is from Armando in Texas.

[Alain V.]

It comes silver cad plated, but I powder painted this one to brighten it up.

[Useless]

pick up the phone and call Gordon Levy get the pick up and pan no more worries remember the KISS method---dave