Now that I have the FFR manual rack and pinion completely installed and attached and front end complete... I think I would rather have Power steering just for the ease of it. Is it worth it?- if you say MAN ITS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE...Im in... How much work is involved? Which year rack is suggested for the MK4?
The car is not going to the dragstrip, and honestly I dont see myself motocrossing, but I am going to drive the crap out of it!!!
any gear list needed would certainly be appreciated- thanks again gents
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FFR 7819, MARK IV, 408 Engine, TKO 600 mid shift, Holley 750 DP, IRS, FFR Halibrand wheels , Dual chrome roll bars / bumpers / Polished exhaust, Heater, Cobra seats, 245/45 & 315/35
Received 8 JUN 2012
Roller 20 JUL 2012
Go Cart ??
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I bought this steering rack and larger Ford bellows from Breeze to fit the rack extensions you'll have to buy from FFR. I also bought the Breeze offset aluminum bushings that both lower the steering rack and allow you to more accurately center it in the chassis.
Not installing power steering is my single regret for my build, completed last fall. I tried to do all the right things during the build -- used the FFR 3.1 rack, Breeze offset bushings, proper front end alignment, etc. But it just drives a little too "heavy" for my liking, and parking takes some muscle. My driving is 100% street cruising. I'm in the process now of gathering the necessary parts. Coincidentally, I selected the same rack from Breeze and combination of parts that George mentioned. I still haven't completely decided how I'm going to power it. Getting a pump on the front of my engine the way it's currently dressed would involve a number of changes including timing cover and water pump, not to mention the pretty expense March pulleys and brackets. I'm leaning towards the Fast Freddies electric steering option, but not 100% sure yet. I see from your sig you haven't decided on your engine yet. You're in a perfect situation to plan for the proper front dress including PS pump. Do it now. You won't regret it.
And while you're at it, think about power brakes too. Even harder to add after the build. That's one decision I did get right, and my brakes work very well.
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Pin Drive width, 3.27 IRS, Full Emission 302 EFI w/Trick Flow Top End Kit and ISIS, and lots of ideas stolen from here!
Now that I have the FFR manual rack and pinion completely installed and attached and front end complete... I think I would rather have Power steering just for the ease of it. Is it worth it?- if you say MAN ITS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE...Im in... How much work is involved? Which year rack is suggested for the MK4?
The car is not going to the dragstrip, and honestly I dont see myself motocrossing, but I am going to drive the crap out of it!!!
any gear list needed would certainly be appreciated- thanks again gents
I am still building my car as well and bought the Fast Freddie's set up. It was a very straight foward install especially with some of the posts on this forum from guys that have done the install. I used one of the Autozone racks. A quick search here and you should be able to find the part numbers for them. You do have to buy the rack extenders from FFR and I did not have to cut anything with the extenders installed. The only complaint I have so far with the Freddie's kit is the reservoir bracket. It is rounded on the back so I could find no real good way to mount it. I ended up just having a nice billet alluminum bracket made for it. The billet bracket looks way better and was much easier to mount.
__________________
MK4 Complete kit ordered 12/09/11
408w, TKO500, mid shift, 3 link, Fast Freddie's pwr steering
Delivered 2/26/12
First start 8/30/12
First go cart 8/31/12
Just buy some weights, and do some arm curls for a few weeks. Won't be long and the non-power steering will feel light as a feather..
Seriously though, I find that the only time I have to muscle on the steering wheel is when parking, or moving very slowly. When out cruising, it's not an issue at all. You may also grow to appreciate the better road feel, that non-power offers. I have a Flaming River 15-1 quick ratio rack, but the 20-1 ratio is easier.
PS or not is one of the most widely debated topics on this forum. There's no right answer, and each builder has to decide what is best for them. Having said that, I think the main debate is whether to add it. I haven't read a single thread in nearly three years where someone was sorry they added and removed it. But I agree it is possible to overboost. There are ways to adjust the boost to get the right amount.
One other point, I'm adding PS not just for the reduced effort, but so I can dial more castor into the front alignment. My Mk3 holds the road well, but I'm looking for a little more and by all accounts the added castor makes a difference.
I purchased a Unisteer rack from Breeze, along with the proper u-joint setup....
My pump came off of an GM import, that I found in a bone yard, along with the reservoir and hoses....I think I paid $25 for the pump/hoses...
That was after I had driven the car for 2 years with the un-powered Mustang rack, and another 2 years with a Flaming River 18-1 rack....
Been driving the power steering for 5 years, now, and I love it....I also added a vacuum brake booster from an old import, at the same time....Both , together , make it a different car!
Don't hesitate, do it.
Edward
Last edited by Mr. Barry; 06-30-2012 at 06:23 PM..
My vote is Yea, especially if you are only going to drive it on the street. That's when you need it the most. You can add more caster when you have PS and that makes the car track better in a straight line. Mike Forte sells a Ford AC eliminator bracket that makes it easy to put a stock Mustang PS system in and you can cut the pressure spring if it is too much boost. It doesn't have a big bling factor, but it works well. I did use a small cooler and -6 AN teflon lines but you can get a hydraulic shop to make up some PS hoses to fit.
Ron
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FFR Challenge car #4182SP Carbed 302, Holley 600CFM, E303 cam, T5, 3 link rear-3:55, Levy wheels, Kumho tires, Fire Safe fuel cell, Griffin race radiator, ISIS wiring system, MSD 6ALN NASCAR ignition, 85 Mustang distributor,
You'll always have some people saying you don't need it, but you don't very often hear from people saying they wish they had installed manual instead of power..
Thanks very much fellas... I appreciate all the advice. I think Im going through with it.
__________________
FFR 7819, MARK IV, 408 Engine, TKO 600 mid shift, Holley 750 DP, IRS, FFR Halibrand wheels , Dual chrome roll bars / bumpers / Polished exhaust, Heater, Cobra seats, 245/45 & 315/35
Received 8 JUN 2012
Roller 20 JUL 2012
Go Cart ??
Legal ??,
To be Painted Toyota Tacoma Speedway Blue w GM Artic white stripes ??.
Proud supporter of Forte Parts Connection, Breeze Automotive, Tangent Technologies, FFMETAL
I am still building my car as well and bought the Fast Freddie's set up...... The only complaint I have so far with the Freddie's kit is the reservoir bracket. It is rounded on the back so I could find no real good way to mount it. I ended up just having a nice billet alluminum bracket made for it. The billet bracket looks way better and was much easier to mount.
I wonder when he changed that bracket? Mine was flat-backed for easy mounting on the F panel:
Not sure but the bracket that I got with the kit looked nothing like what you have. My billet one looks similar to yours though and I mounted it in the same spot as you did. The rounded back bracket is useless for these cars in my opinion. I really like the overall set up of the Freddie's kit though!!
__________________
MK4 Complete kit ordered 12/09/11
408w, TKO500, mid shift, 3 link, Fast Freddie's pwr steering
Delivered 2/26/12
First start 8/30/12
First go cart 8/31/12
With every intention of re-hijacking this thread (if that's a term)...
I'm in the same boat. I'm looking for a steering rack (probably 2.5-3 turns lock-to-lock) to use with the Fast Freddie's setup. I would really prefer not to use a remanufactured part (or deal with the numb skulls at autozone) if I could avoid it. I would also like plug-and-play simplicity, not requiring parts to be replaced or swapped out as soon as it comes out of the box. I checked Breeze and all I saw were 3 turns or higher and/or remanufactures.
Basically, what options are there for a new rack in 2.5-3.0 turns that doesn't need any work before it goes in the car?
Bonus question: What is the equivalency of ratio to turns? i.e. 2.5 turns = 16:1 or what???
With every intention of re-hijacking this thread (if that's a term)...
I'm in the same boat. I'm looking for a steering rack (probably 2.5-3 turns lock-to-lock) to use with the Fast Freddie's setup. I would really prefer not to use a remanufactured part (or deal with the numb skulls at autozone) if I could avoid it. I would also like plug-and-play simplicity, not requiring parts to be replaced or swapped out as soon as it comes out of the box. I checked Breeze and all I saw were 3 turns or higher and/or remanufactures.
Basically, what options are there for a new rack in 2.5-3.0 turns that doesn't need any work before it goes in the car?
Bonus question: What is the equivalency of ratio to turns? i.e. 2.5 turns = 16:1 or what???
Also going through this, as mentioned in an earlier post. I too researched the available rack options. AGR and Flaming Riving have options for new. AGR has specific units for Cobra replicas. 712591 (15:1) and 711091 (20:1) but are >$400 and several reports of them leaking if you don't use a lower pressure pump. Bottom line if you want new just be prepared to spend more. I just received the Unisteer 3.0 turn unit from Mark at Breeze last week. Yes, it's remanufactured, but from appearance seems a quality unit. It's very nicely silver powder coated. I took the boots off to add the FFR rack extenders (something you should consider in any case) and all looks perfect. I think it's a good middle of the road approach.
I have the AGR saginaw type pump and the AGR power rack that is specially tuned for the FFR Cobra. I am using the KRC mounting bracket and Canton V belt pulleys. I could not be more happy with the feel. Firm with good feedback but power assist at slow speeds and in the parking lot. No twitchyness at highway speeds. I also have the SAI Mod which also plays into the road-ability.
Jack
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Judged Best In Class; Production Road Racer at World Of Wheels Chicago 2013. Ford BOSS 347 short block, Dart Al heads.. 360 RWHP, T-5 Z, IRS W/ Detroit Truetrac & 3.73s, SN95 spindles 99 PBR brakes, AGR Power Steering, and a Load of engineering changes. Graduation Post #22 http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...fr-5773-a.html
Another option is a reman rack from Autozone. You can get Sport, GT or Standard ratio (recommended). Attractively priced and you can take it back if there's a problem. Same with the pump.
Frank
Frank is correct, the reman from Autozone is cash-back. mine leaked and i sprung for the Breeze unit. much better quality out of the box.
if you go the AGR / OEM mustang GT route, be sure to do the cut spring mod, it's free, and reduces the assist of the pump, which is made for a heavier car.
Frank is correct, the reman from Autozone is cash-back. mine leaked and i sprung for the Breeze unit. much better quality out of the box.
if you go the AGR / OEM mustang GT route, be sure to do the cut spring mod, it's free, and reduces the assist of the pump, which is made for a heavier car.
Be careful about cutting that spring too much especially if you are running Hydraboost, if the pressure is too low you may be eliminating power brakes.
__________________ CLASS OF 2009 # 79 FFR MK 3.1, # 6898, Complete kit arrived 02/07/09, roller 03/30/09, first start 07/14/09, Registered 10/14/09, PPG Orange Glow over Sterling silver, Dart aluminum 427W, stack fuel injection,on board fire supression,Front Runner Serp system, TKO 600 mid shift mod, ISIS system, Hydroboost brakes with Willwood pedals, PS, A/C, IRS, Griggs racing front suspension, Foot box mods both sides,Dark Water splitter,dead pedal,glove box. (where's my publisher) Lots o Goodies
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary… that's what gets you." -Jeremy Clarkson
My plan of attack on our build has been "Only change the things you know for sure you want to change"
To me, power steering and power brakes were an unknown. I did not want to "upgade" something that perhaps did not need "upgrading". Besides, how do you know its an upgrade if you dont have a baseline to compare it with. So with that in mind, i went manual steering and brakes (willwoods). So far with my very limited driving time, i am EXTREMELY pleased with both. They feel great to me. Even my wife can turn the car at a stop OK.
A final note... My goal was to make a muscle car. I did not want the same feel and driving experience i have in ANY of my newer cars. For me, no power works great. In the end, dont listen to anyone here. You know what you want down in your gut. Build the car for you.
__________________
MK4 delivery 12/17/11
Build thread: HERE
Epic First start video HERE
427w ford racing, stainless headers, 3link, tko600, 3.55 gears, Jim Inglese weber intake system and a custom paint job from Jeff Miller!
Type 65 Coupe Ordered 01/17/13
Build thread: HERE
347 w. stack injection, IRS, Levy arms, Levy front and rear brakes
DO PS !!! You will be glad you did. I used the Breeze 3.0 turns rack (bought it in 07) and am VERY happy w/ it. OTOH, i autocross w/ Fred and he has had very good success w/ autozone racks and he isn't trying to sell me anything. About 2-3 times per year I wish it was faster when there is a 4-5 point autocross slalom but otherwise it's perfect. I did the FFR 3.o turns manual rack and was not happy. I just don't think there is any reason to have to work or plan ahead to make a turn in your car. I think that there may be a need someday to make a quick reaction turn and, w/ a manual rack, not be quick enough.
__________________
FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
My plan of attack on our build has been "Only change the things you know for sure you want to change"
To me, power steering and power brakes were an unknown. I did not want to "upgade" something that perhaps did not need "upgrading". Besides, how do you know its an upgrade if you dont have a baseline to compare it with. So with that in mind, i went manual steering and brakes (willwoods). So far with my very limited driving time, i am EXTREMELY pleased with both. They feel great to me. Even my wife can turn the car at a stop OK.
A final note... My goal was to make a muscle car. I did not want the same feel and driving experience i have in ANY of my newer cars. For me, no power works great. In the end, dont listen to anyone here. You know what you want down in your gut. Build the car for you.
I could have written these paragraphs a couple of years ago when I did my build. I too thought manual steering suited the car and my design goals. Plus was trying to keep things as simple as possible while trying to manage the budget. After the first few hundred miles, I was happy with everything except starting to have my doubts about the steering. At 1000 miles, and after a few longer cruises, more doubts. At 1200 miles (now) I'm gathering parts to add PS this winter. Not questioning that you're making the right choice based on what you know now, and I couldn't agree more, build the car for you. But just saying you may not feel quite so sure once you're on the road for real.
And just for record, I guarantee driving your Roadster will be nothing like any of your modern cars, with or without PS.
I lulled myself into believing that the car would be best left with manual steering and brakes...I did that for the first four years....I didn't realize how bad things were until I made the change to all power.....Such an unbelievable difference, that I still can't believe it, after 5 years....And , no, it will never feel like the family sedan, I guarantee it!
Edward
any gear list needed would certainly be appreciated
Stick with OEM components and it will work flawlessly. You'll need to swap out the splined adapter on the steering shaft to mate with the power rack (the proper one should have been included with your kit, and in fact was probably installed on the shaft when you got it).
For a street car I recommend the 3 turn steering rack. Here's what you need:
Autozone:
6383 Power steering pump $48.99
6406 Rack and pinion $74.99
Stick with OEM components and it will work flawlessly. You'll need to swap out the splined adapter on the steering shaft to mate with the power rack (the proper one should have been included with your kit, and in fact was probably installed on the shaft when you got it).
For a street car I recommend the 3 turn steering rack. Here's what you need:
Autozone:
6383 Power steering pump $48.99
6406 Rack and pinion $74.99
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