IRS CV joint popped out

[Redfish]

Thanks for the clarification Rich. I did the upgrade late 2009, with the complete FFR axles.

Thought the nuts were 'one use' due to distortion when torqued based on what I've read in the past...good to know they are reusable.

Originally Posted by rich grsc

I think this mostly a concern with Mrk IV builds, and the complete axles as supplied by FFr. And yes the nuts can be reused, if they stay together when removed.

[Cobra79]

Received mine today.
Here are pics for more information...

[FritoBandito]

I was surprised to come home to a pack of spacers. Don't really need em since Mike Forte set me up with some sweet upgraded axles but I'll put the spacers with the kit included axles for whoever gets em later.

Mario

[CHOTIS BILL]

I received the fix and read the instructions. Originally the rear track was to be set at 59.25that has changed to 58.875 from the outside of the disk mounting surface which is another .281 per side. So the rear track has changed .468 smaller per side which should make any other change unnecessary. But is the new narrower rear track going to cause any other issue with the rear tires hitting any body work?

Bill Lomenick

[mn12]

Originally Posted by Redfish

Thanks for the clarification Rich. I did the upgrade late 2009, with the complete FFR axles.

Thought the nuts were 'one use' due to distortion when torqued based on what I've read in the past...good to know they are reusable.

I think they are supposed to be one time use but I have reused many time on a Tbird just used a little red locktite for added safety

[MPTech]

I got mine in the mail yesterday too.
I'm more than a little disappointed, and if I had mine finished and been driving, I would have been even more upset.

As it currently stands, I'm not a fan of the spacer solution. Sorry, but this feels like a cheap fix / patch. This is not the way they were designed / engineered.
I also spent a fair amount of time to address and find the missing axle seals and install them and this fix makes this totally worthless (I'm sure Ford put them on there for a very good reason).
IRS Halfshaft axle seals

or do a search on the Factory Five Forum for "IRS Halfshaft axle seals"

I also think that FFR should address the real problem and suck up the replacement of the entire axle & CV joints. ie: return your old and get a replacement set.

I commend them for the shock recall, but they are not handling this situation as well and it seems to me to be just as dangerous.

[GWL]

Here is an interesting discussion regarding the axle nuts.

Check your IRS axle nuts!

The FFR supplied nut is impacted from the side to distort the threads out of round. The Ford nuts are comprised of three separate nuts in a cage and I'm guessing they are off a bit in lining up of the threads.

Everyone has their own opinions as to one time use or not. I'm not sure but as I stated in the attached thread it is a good idea to check those nuts occasionally to make sure the bearings are fully seated and stay seated.

Also note, in the same attached thread post #28 vnmsss (Karen) has had problems with the axle popping out of the differential and is planning to go back to a 3-link. That discussion took place back in May 2012.

George

[Dually]

HMMMM. Graduated July 10' and have put almost 8000 miles on car since. Car is in air at least every 1000 miles for oil change and a complete nut and bolt check, under chassis look as well as a lube of front suspension points. I put my wife and friends in this car and don't hesitate to do a little spirited driving every now and then. I visit this site at least once a week but never paid much attention to this post until I got home last night, checked the mail and found my package of parts and info. Needless to say, car does not move again until I have the opportunity to correct anything that may be an issue in my car. Not sure where I am with my thoughts about how this was (or was not) messaged as I consider the potential for a half shaft whipping around under my car next to brake lines, fuel lines and the fuel tank to be a significant safety issue. The parts and information provided by FFR are appreciated but when it comes to something like this, cost is not a factor, safety is.

I appreciate all the insight offered in this post by you folks and hope this issue does not catch anyone off guard.

[Olli]

Nothing came for me from FFR in today's mail....

Those that have recieved the "fix-it" kit, do you have standard width or pin drive width?

I wonder in what order FFR is sending out the notices and kits?

Personally, I don't like the idea of the spacers.

Olli

[Tennessee Tim]

Mine is standard width.

Tim

[cChrisM]

Got mine yesterday as well and have standard width and got kit awhile ago.

[Dually]

standard width

[MPTech]

standard width

[kevin12973]

Pin-drive here. Got the spacers and dont like this solution either. I called FFR today and was told the axles are a few months out and they will only be 3/8" longer. I was hoping for a 3/4" longer shaft but that will be enough to keep the try-lobes in the cage.

[Cobra79]

Standard Width, how much longer for those? Looks like .268 per side (.536 total)

Called FFR today. kit was purchased the beginning of this year. was told mine (and thus all others going back at least that far) will most definitely need the spacers.
Judging by Chris's post (his kit ordered in '09) they're sending them out going way back.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Originally the rear track was to be set at 59.250 from hub face to hub face that is from where the disk mounts. And now that has changed to 58.875 from the outside of the disk mounting surface which is another .281 per side. So the rear track has changed .468 smaller per side which should make any other change unnecessary. But is the new narrower rear track going to cause any other issue with the rear tires hitting any body work?

Bill Lomenick

[Frank Messina]

I can't speak for others but .287 narrower will put the rear tire in the trunk on my pin drive width rear. Longer axles is the only proper fix IMO.
Frank

[Johan76]

I have std width supplied early this year but have not recived this fix.
I was in contact with f5 with this issue early spring with phots and my meassurments.
I also asked them to make specification of the ideal position of the rollers in the tripod.

Have anyone of you found that specification in the new instruction??

This would help to know if we need to compensate the track after intalled new axels or shim.

Will i be ok if the rollers or just inside for the full axel travel or not?

Thanks
Johan

[Cobra79]

Originally Posted by Johan76

I have std width supplied early this year but have not recived this fix.
I was in contact with f5 with this issue early spring with phots and my meassurments.
I also asked them to make specification of the ideal position of the rollers in the tripod.

Have anyone of you found that specification in the new instruction??

This would help to know if we need to compensate the track after intalled new axels or shim.

Will i be ok if the rollers or just inside for the full axel travel or not?

Thanks
Johan

not really, the instructions basically say "take off your boot, if your rollers are hanging half way out, install the spacers and check for proper track width"
it also says "if your tri-lobes look like this, you don't need the fix" - the picture looks like the tri-lobes are in the cup. no part of the tri-lobe is breaking the plane of the cup.
but the pic of tri-lobes after fix installed looks like they are in further, but still break the plane of the cup

here are the highlights...

axles are too short
this does not affect all irs axels
affects complete axle assemblies JAN 2009 to AUG 2012
spacers is the fix, or pay 40$ each plus shipping for new axles
suspension width should be 58.875" rotor face to rotor face (or rotor mounting surface? instructions say both in the same sentence)

[PaulProe]

To those who have pin-drive axles, can you give me an overall length of the axle when the joints are fully compressed.

I am told the length should be 27 1/4"

Curious what others have, mine are 27 3/16"

Paul

[2boss]

Since F5 is shipping repair parts, along with a letter from Mr. Smith explaining the issue, perhaps it's time?

[Dually]

checked mine today, standard width IRS which measures in at 58 7/8" from rotor hat to rotor hat. checked car at both ride height and at full suspension travel and could not feel the bearings thru the boot. Pulled both boots back and visually checked and the bearings were well inside the cups at ride height and came within 1/4" of outside lip at full travel so no issues here. Kit purchased April 09' and graduated July 10'. CV boot band tool $8.00 from autozone. Worth noting that if I did need to rework I would not have used the spacers. In my opinion, spacers limit contact area between splines on axles and hubs and those running big power with big tires may have issues.
I set car up with a 4" ride height in rear as I like how the lower stance looks. Upgraded to Eiback springs with 650 rate in rear. With 315x17 Eagles there is no contact with tires and inner sheetmetal. I am running 1/4" Billet Specialties spacers between rotor hat and wheel.

[emac]

Had a chance today to check my IRS axles. Kit was delivered in sept 2012. I have about 1k miles so far without any issues. I have 15x10 inch rear halibrand wheels with Goodyear billboard tires.

Photo attached of inner tri lobe with suspension loaded. It is obviously hanging out a bit.

My track width from rotor /wheel mounting surface to rotor/wheel mounting surface with suspension loaded is 59.60 inches. That comes out to .362 inches too wide for each side.

My inner tire just barely clears a 3/4 frame brace behind each seat. If I move the wheels in any more then it is going to rub. I really hate to change the rear suspension as it took me a while to get it dialed in.

I don't think the spacers will seat the trilobe enough without changing the track width. At full droop the top trilobe looks like it is about to come out. The spacer will give a bit more safety margin, but not as much as I would like.

So, it looks like my only option is longer axles. Does anyone know the length the new ffr axles are? If they are going to be the same as spacers at 58.875 inch track width then I don't think that is going to do it for many of us.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Ernest

[Redfish]

Just did a quick & dirty check with the wheels on the ground...had enough room between the rim spindles to run the measuring tape from side to side.

Roughly 59" rotor face to rotor face, and could not feel the lobes inside the boots.

Double checked my receipt date - March 2010.

[kevin12973]

EMAC- FFR told me the new axles are 3/8" longer, which is disappointing. Looks like we will have to bite the bullet and go with drive shaft shop half shafts @ $700

[Fred Yarema]

Didn't bother to take the boots off - can deffinatly feel the lobes through the boot - about 1/4" inside of the cup (in the sprung position). My track width measured exactly to the 58 7/8" (standard width) as specified (sh*t luck!), which is great as I did not want to screw up the alignment. For the record, mine is number 7449, kit picked up in February 2011 and came with the pre-assembled half shafts. The half shafts were back ordered and didn't arrive until around April

[mildlyamused]

1st...Dually- the comment about the "spacers limiting contact on the splines in the hub" is well, ridiculous! How do you figure that? I have the hub nuts tightened down on mine and there is 3/4" of splined shaft still sticking out the hub face!

TO ALL,
I spoke with Jason late last week at FFR (he is one of the lead engineers). He told me flat out "Just put the spacers in. It will not hurt, and can only help. It will not affect your alignment, and will only "shove" the axles into the tulips more, not push the wheels out, or pull them inward."

That is if you have a MK3.1 or later kit, where as you DID NOT ASSEMBLE YOUR AXLES YOURSELF.

I agree that their directions on this fix SUCK HARD! The pictures are worthless, the grammar is crap, and there are way to many variables involved for them to think that this helps everyone at every stage of their build.

Nough' said-

[MikeKelly]

Originally Posted by mildlyamused

1st...Dually- the comment about the "spacers limiting contact on the splines in the hub" is well, ridiculous! How do you figure that? I have the hub nuts tightened down on mine and there is 3/4" of splined shaft still sticking out the hub face!

Dually is right. You lose .268" of splined axle to hub engagement. You (mildlyamused) have 3/4" of the threaded part hanging out.

*I personally think* you could cram a 3/4" spacer in there and still never make it the weakest part of the axle assembly.

Look at splined axle engagement at the tri-lobe and the CV joint. And remember, it worked on Thunderbirds, SCs + Mk VIIIs all these years...


JMHO,

Mike

[emac]

After some head scratching yesterday, I decided to install the spacers and leave my track width (59.6) alone. Tightened everything up and checked the lobes. Lobes are now inside the tulips with the suspension loaded. Just barely. I should have taken another photo.

Kevin, thanks for the info on the half shafts. It seems the spacers are about 1/4 inch thick. This put my lobes in the tulip, even with my increased track width. So, I would think a 3/8 inch longer axle would work for me.

I am going to leave mine alone for now and wait and see what others do when the new axles show up. I feel better with the spacers in than without. It was only a matter of time before something bad happened.

As for FFR, I have mixed feelings about this. The spacers are a quick easy way to get people in a safe situation. However, I think the right fix is an exchange of complete axles for those that bought assembled axles. But, I understand the increased cost of doing it that way.

ernest

[mildlyamused]

Mike Kelly-
No you don't! The hub is just sliding in one direction (outwards so to speak).
The inside of the hub splined bearing is always in the same contact patch with the shaft splines. If the shaft was being pushed through the hub further i.e. out away from the pumpkin, that would be the case. It could not however, due to the fact that it bottoms out in the hub.

People- you are way over thinking this, and after I took many a measurement upon adding the spacers, and cycling the suspension, this fix hardly makes a difference in respect to where the lobes fall inside the tulips.