I haven’t heard anything so I made my own axle spacers that are ½ inch thick and work great. At full drupe the bearing is even with the cup and when level there is still plenty of side to side movement with the axle nut loose.
I just thought I'd share my approach to this issue. I have standard width IRS, and had originally set the track width up according to Richard Oben's instructions. After reading these threads, I was dismayed to find that I could feel the tri-lobe near the edge of the carrier through the boot. It was still in the cage, but was closer to the edge than I was really comfortable with. I was also not particularly happy with the location of the tires on the 17" FFR Hallibrand replicas within the wheel well. I wanted to bring the tire out a bit closer to the lip, but I certainly didn't want to extend the control arms any more, not only because it would bring the tri-lobe out even further, but also because the rear heim joint already had 5/8" of threads exposed, and I didn't feel comfortable exposing more threads and leaving less threads engaged.
So, I decided to try wheel spacers. I installed some high-quality hub-centric 1" spacers from Eibach. 1" was a good bit more than I needed to get the wheels were I wanted them, but that gave me a chance to run the control arms in quite a bit. I ended up backing the rear heim out only about a turn and a half, and doing alignment with the front joint. This put the tri-lobe probably 3/8" to 1/2" back into the carrier, and it seems very well-seated now. It's probably not a perfect solution for everyone, but it looks like it will work well for me, and solved two problems.
Tim
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FFR 7681 Mk 4, IRS, 331 with Quad Weber IDAs. Check out my build site: http://www.timsroadster.com
I called Monday and talked to Rick. He said they are waiting on other an ancillary parts to create a spacer 'kit' of sorts. They want to send things like new boot bands, etc for those that have torn into the CVs trying to figure out what the problem was. He explained they want the kit to have everything required regardless of whether you haven't unboxed them all the way to if you disassembled them.
He suggested checking back mid next week as to the status of the 'kit'.
For myself (and most others, I believe)the rear heim joints started all the way in, per manual, then the alignment guy only took out what was necessary to align rear tires. In my case, the wheels cant go in any closer. I think the only solution is to spend $750 on Driveshaft Shop axles. It sucks, but having a halfshaft popping out and beating the crap out of your car sucks worse.
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Mark 4 kit #7226 IRS pindrive FRPP 392 carbed TKO-600rr midshift. Picked up april 10, 2010 First start and go-cart 9/26/10. Registered june 8 2011.
I just read back thru this thread to post 83 by Pete. Seems to me that as you spacer the axle toward the center of the car you then lose spline engagement at the hub. That tells me that the spacer idea is no good cause next we will have people w/ sticky tires twisting axle splines off. Have to say I am beginning to wonder about FFR. Spacers will definately be the cheapest fix but a long way from the correct fix.
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FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
Seems to me that as you spacer the axle toward the center of the car you then lose spline engagement at the hub. That tells me that the spacer idea is no good cause next we will have people w/ sticky tires twisting axle splines off.
I'm all for longer axles too (and apparently that's going to be an extra cost option), but the hub end of the axle spline is not likely to twist off (1/2" spacer or no).
Look at the engagement of the axle to the tri-lobe bearing unit. That *ought* to be the easiest to twist off, but I *think* the most common (twisting) failure point is the splines in the carrier (probably has less spline engagement than the tri-lobe).
JMHO,
Mike
Last edited by MikeKelly; 08-17-2012 at 12:32 PM..
I called Monday and talked to Rick. He said they are waiting on other an ancillary parts to create a spacer 'kit' of sorts. They want to send things like new boot bands, etc for those that have torn into the CVs trying to figure out what the problem was. He explained they want the kit to have everything required regardless of whether you haven't unboxed them all the way to if you disassembled them.
He suggested checking back mid next week as to the status of the 'kit'.
Kevin
So if one were to be waiting on "backordered" CV half shafts (a.k.a. they haven't been shipped because they're still trying to figure it out), we are just going to get a pair of the old, short shafts with a spacer kit? If this is the case I'd like a refund for deleting the CV half shafts and I'm going elsewhere. When I talked to Rick last month he said they would be doing two fixes. One for new customers (like myself) would be longer half shafts. The other fix would be the spacers for guys who already had their axles in hand.
The context of the kit As described by Rick at FFR was for those that already have axles in hand. I didn't ask anything about unfulfilled orders as it doesn't apply to me. I can definitely tell you the spacer is for people who already have axles in hand but I have no idea what the plans are for unfulfilled orders.
Kevin
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFlyer
So if one were to be waiting on "backordered" CV half shafts (a.k.a. they haven't been shipped because they're still trying to figure it out), we are just going to get a pair of the old, short shafts with a spacer kit? If this is the case I'd like a refund for deleting the CV half shafts and I'm going elsewhere. When I talked to Rick last month he said they would be doing two fixes. One for new customers (like myself) would be longer half shafts. The other fix would be the spacers for guys who already had their axles in hand.
So I had to tighten a loose axle nut this saturday so I figured I will look into my short axle issue a little closer. With the wheel off and a jack on the lower control arm outside edge and car sitting at ride height, the axle is horizontal so this is the closest distance from pumpkin to hub. With axle nut off the axle stickout is 1 7/8" then slid axle in till it bottomed, axle stickout is 1/2". Almost exactly the same. This tells me these axles have 1 3/8" till they bottom in the cage, so I would think the axles should have been 3/4" to 1" longer then what they sent me. Under full droop the try lobe sticks out 1/2" past the cage. What do you guys think?
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Mark 4 kit #7226 IRS pindrive FRPP 392 carbed TKO-600rr midshift. Picked up april 10, 2010 First start and go-cart 9/26/10. Registered june 8 2011.
Your 3/4 to 1 inch is what I have been saying all along. At ride height those tri bearings should be at least centered in the available space in the housing. Since they move outward when the suspension either rises or falls from ride height, they could even be deeper than centered.
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FFR 5353K,351/400hp,TKO 500, 3-link w/3.08 and Truetrac, Koni DA coilovers front and rear,APE hardtop,Forte front and VPM rear swaybars
Your 3/4 to 1 inch is what I have been saying all along. At ride height those tri bearings should be at least centered in the available space in the housing. Since they move outward when the suspension either rises or falls from ride height, they could even be deeper than centered.
It's only been 12 years since I took geometry class but I've slept and drank since then (each in about equal amounts)...
With the axle perfectly horizontal, there is no physical way (short of something being damaged or failing) that the tri-lobe would go any further into the cage, correct? Wouldn't it be best to have it as deep as possible, just short of bottoming out in the cage, when horizontal? Then a full droop you wouldn't be worried about it?
It's only been 12 years since I took geometry class but I've slept and drank since then (each in about equal amounts)...
With the axle perfectly horizontal, there is no physical way (short of something being damaged or failing) that the tri-lobe would go any further into the cage, correct? Wouldn't it be best to have it as deep as possible, just short of bottoming out in the cage, when horizontal? Then a full droop you wouldn't be worried about it?
Perhaps in theory however in practice you still need to have some leeway/happy medium due to how far in or out folks adjust the rod-ends on their a-arms as well as for what appears to even be some possible variance in the mounting point of the differential side to side.
Even how the tripod is assembled on the axle appears to take one of about three different approaches depending on whether one is assembling FFR supplied axles to OEM Ford CV's oneself versus whatever FFR is supplying in their "complete" axle setups and how these are put together. This affects final engagement as well. (Though in some of the extreme cases, likely not enough to account for the sum total of the lack of engagement seen....)
Will be very interesting to see what FFR eventually comes up with and how or where any revision they make actually compares to the setup's that do NOT have an issue.
Regards,
Bill
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MKII, PDW, Torsen 3.55 Pin Drive IRS, Dart 393W, AFR 185's, Victor Jr., Accufab TB, Accel DFI GEN 7 EMS, TKO 600 wMcleod Scatter&Street Twin Clutch, 1+1 Elec., TTD's, Da Bat Paint
Will be very interesting to see what FFR eventually comes up with and how or where any revision they make actually compares to the setup's that do NOT have an issue.
Regards,
Bill
That is exactly where I am. I dont have an issue (yet??), but I am very interested in the fix, so I can decide if I "need" it.
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#7619 MKIV IRS complete kit, non donor
351 tko 500
Delivered Nov 13, 2011
First start December 31, 2011
First gocart Jan 12 ,2012
picked up from painter 5/5/2012
Graduation 05/12/201
I've been quietly following this thread to see what the "final solution" is. I had my passenger side pin drive axle assembly come apart on me in March of 2009. At the time I blamed it on me thinking I had not re-installed the outer clip correctly since it was nowhere to be found. I had Raxles rebuild the axle and it's working fine but now I'm wondering if I'm driving a time bomb since they went 5 years before the first one let go. I could have been an early failure that wasn't attributed to the stick being too short.
I received a package today from F5 with instructions on how to check for the issue along with spacers and an option to have the axles replaced for $40. Anyone else receive theirs?
Got mine today also. I don't recall it having a price for axles, I think it just said available soon at cost.
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#7619 MKIV IRS complete kit, non donor
351 tko 500
Delivered Nov 13, 2011
First start December 31, 2011
First gocart Jan 12 ,2012
picked up from painter 5/5/2012
Graduation 05/12/201
Got mine today too. Definitely said that the new axles would be $40.
Tim
As charlie brown would say "I got a rock"
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#7619 MKIV IRS complete kit, non donor
351 tko 500
Delivered Nov 13, 2011
First start December 31, 2011
First gocart Jan 12 ,2012
picked up from painter 5/5/2012
Graduation 05/12/201
Ahhh I see now. Why did they put it in there? Don't they know we don't read instructions!
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#7619 MKIV IRS complete kit, non donor
351 tko 500
Delivered Nov 13, 2011
First start December 31, 2011
First gocart Jan 12 ,2012
picked up from painter 5/5/2012
Graduation 05/12/201
Who are they sending the instructions out to? Everyone with IRS?
I have not received any information, yet.
What are the instructions Jesper has written, How to Check Axle Length, to see if you have a problem? As Dave Smith's letter stated above not all axles are involved.
Redfish,
You are not over reacting. If I were on the road and reading this for the first time I'd be in a bit of shock too. I am not yet on the road, so it does make it a bit easier for me.
Ford sells those nuts for about $10 each and I'm sure they are less elsewhere. I'd assemble it with new ones.
Nice...it only cost me $500+ to fix mine. Don't get me started.
__________________ -Don
FFR6966 - MK3.1, IRS, AFR 205 headed 408w, depleted bank account, pissed off wife, friends think I'm a hermit, dreaming of driving the Cobr@ someday. My Build Site PS Footbox Mod .pdf.dwg Tire Stencils .pdf.dwg
So...just got the package in the mail today. I was totally shocked (no pun on the Bilsteins intended).
I haven't been frequenting the forum that often this summer, so didn't know there was any issue.
Just read all 4 pages of this thread. This appears to be a safety issue, known for months. Today is the first time I heard from FFR!?!?
I have yet to check my axles, but appears that if you are affected, there is some owner-cost involved? At minimum, a CV strap tool...
FFR states to re-use the axle nut? I thought that was a no-no?
Am I overreacting?
I think this mostly a concern with Mrk IV builds, and the complete axles as supplied by FFr. And yes the nuts can be reused, if they stay together when removed.
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