IRS CV joint popped out

[Michael Everson]

Bruce. You may want to pull back your boot and have a closer look. I can't imagine you should be able to feel the rollers no matter where your suspension is.
Mike

[PaulProe]

Do you have any pictures of the other side of the trilobe, showing that snap ring and any of the undamaged outer snap ring?

I have the exact opposite of your situation. The shafts are about 1/4" too long. If I could reverse my trilobes to mount like yours, it would resolve the problem.

Sure would like to see how yours are mounted, what snap rings they used at each position and if the groove spacing is different than standard.

Looks like when they assembled your halfshafts, they used a larger, conventional snapring on the end rather than the small .050" lockwire that is normally used.

The Ford snap ring that goes on the outer side of the trilobe is .100" square and mounts into a similar size groove.

Have you dis-assembled the trilobe yet?

Paul

[oneillpete]

Hey Paul, sorry I have put everything back together, and I don't have any other photos.

Originally Posted by PaulProe

Do you have any pictures of the other side of the trilobe, showing that snap ring and any of the undamaged outer snap ring?

I have the exact opposite of your situation. The shafts are about 1/4" too long. If I could reverse my trilobes to mount like yours, it would resolve the problem.

Sure would like to see how yours are mounted, what snap rings they used at each position and if the groove spacing is different than standard.

Looks like when they assembled your halfshafts, they used a larger, conventional snapring on the end rather than the small .050" lockwire that is normally used.

The Ford snap ring that goes on the outer side of the trilobe is .100" square and mounts into a similar size groove.

Have you dis-assembled the trilobe yet?

Paul

[oneillpete]

Talked to Rick Masters today from FF, they have mocked up a pin drive and Standard IRS. He told me that indeed it appears that the 1/2 shaft and or CV is too short for proper suspention travel. They are talking about longer 1/2 shafts, or a different CV (deeper cup) or even spacers. I'll be getting an update next Tuesday.

Cheers, Pete

[emac]

Wonder how ffr will handle this. I domt have pin drive but I am concerned as well. I think I may check mine out.

[FritoBandito]

Originally Posted by oneillpete

Talked to Rick Masters today from FF, they have mocked up a pin drive and Standard IRS. He told me that indeed it appears that the 1/2 shaft and or CV is too short for proper suspention travel. They are talking about longer 1/2 shafts, or a different CV (deeper cup) or even spacers. I'll be getting an update next Tuesday.

Cheers, Pete

Did they identify it as a problem on both std width and pin drive or just pin drive?

Mario

[Olli]

Did Rick give you what the correct length should be? That would be very helpful as those of us that have yet to install the axles could make a quick measurement and save a lot of grief. It would also be useful to those that want to go and get axles made to have the correct measurement.

Olli

[Darren]

This should be a safety bulletin from Factory Five. That is a dangerous problem to have.

[MikeKelly]

Originally Posted by oneillpete

Talked to Rick Masters today from FF <snip> told me that indeed it appears that the 1/2 shaft and or CV is too short <snip> They are talking about <snip> I'll be getting an update next Tuesday.

Cheers, Pete

Hats off to you Pete, nice job getting them looking about it!

I'll be looking forward to the update.

Thanks,

Mike


P.S. I'm certain Don Payne did a lot to get the ball rolling as well, apologies to anyone else I may have missed...

[Don Payne]

Originally Posted by MikeKelly

Hats off to you Pete, nice job getting them looking about it!

I'll be looking forward to the update.

Thanks,

Mike


P.S. I'm certain Don Payne did a lot to get the ball rolling as well, apologies to anyone else I may have missed...

Nice work...I hope they give you longer axles instead of just giving you an in-store credit. As nice as Dave Smith was to give me a decent in-store credit as compensation, it still left me pulling $$ out of my wallet that I had not planned on to get my axles fixed at DriveshaftShop.

Keep us posted.

[KC Wildcat]

That is great news Pete. And thank you Don and others for continuing to press this issue. I would expect FFR to put out a bulletin and solution in the near future - much like they did with the Bilstein shock issue. I have faith they will find a way to correct the issue and do the right thing to make it right for people. The hard part is recognizing and accepting/admitting you have a problem. It seems FFR has come to that point.

[CraigS]

Fortunately a longer shaft is both the best solution and the cheapest!

[MikeKelly]

Originally Posted by oneillpete

I'll be getting an update next Tuesday.

Cheers, Pete

Hey Pete,

Got an update?

Thanks,

Mike

[bansheekev]

I spoke to Rick Masters yesterday on the subject and his reply was that Jesper (head or R&D) is working on a solution. He acknoledged that they have confirmed that something in either the tri-lobe or axle design changed to create the issue. To Rick's knowledge a solution has not yet been decided upon and a couple of options are on the table (new longer axle or a spacer at between the outer CV and the outer hub are two that are on the table - maybe others but those were the two we discussed). My comment to Rick was that as a customer I was more comfortable with the longer axle approach as the spacer concept has unknown unintended consequences. That is solely my comfort level / risk adversion speaking not necessarily an engineering perspective.

Kevin

Originally Posted by MikeKelly

Hey Pete,

Got an update?

Thanks,

Mike

[Don Payne]

Serenity Now!

[spider larry]

I had the same problem on an IRS pin drive MK IV. Spit out the driver side axle at less than a thousand miles. Thank god I was not at speed. After taking my own measurements and determining I needed a 1/2" longer shaft on the passenger side and 3/4" on the drivers side I sent the basic measurements to Frank at the Driveshaft Shop and he came to the same conclusion. He made new drive shafts and the problem is solved. Although I have made several calls to FF5 to see what they are willing to due about this, I have yet to hear anything back. This new string will prompt me to ask again until they make this right.

Larry

[My5ive01]

I have a standard lug IRS MK IV and checked the tri-lobe at full droop (no wheels or brakes installed yet). The tri-lobe so completely inside the cv joint cup on the differential end for both sides. Although I didn't remove the boot on the outside joint, I can't feel anything protruding beyond into the boot. I offer this as a data point for non-pin drive IRS setups. I measure the distance between the spindle and the axle seal flange on the diff and it was the same for both sides. I'll have to measure again to provide the measure distance if anyone's interested, but I'm out of town this weekend.

Paul

[bansheekev]

My5ive01, when did you receive your MKIV? There appears to be a change at some point on the MKIV IRS so the date the parts were pulled at FFR will be key. The dates may even be different for Pin Drive vs Standard. This is all for FFR to determine. In my discussions with them they seem really good about inventory and change management. If there was a vendor or some other change it seems that they know what and when changes occurred. BTW- I received my MKIV in January 2012 and have the problem with Standard width.

Kevin

[kevin12973]

I just checked mine and found the tri-lobe about 1/3 out of the cage
on the pass. and 1/2 out on driver side at full droop.
My kit 7226 is a pin drive set up delivered april 2010. Have 2000 miles so far and no problems but have to be careful over hills now, knowing how close to disaster this set up is. One more thing on the growing list of failed parts.

[Don Payne]

Originally Posted by kevin12973

Have 2000 miles so far and no problems but have to be careful over hills now, knowing how close to disaster this set up is.

It was quite the uncomfortable feeling when it happened to me. I can only imagine what it would be like at speed...that would not be good to say the least!

[My5ive01]

Bansheekev, I picked my kit up at FFR Feb 04, 2012.

[johntennyson]

I'm not trying to sound like a smart alec (or an idiot!), but are we all starting with the rod ends screwed all of the way into the A-arms (and then backing them out to align the wheels)? If all of'em are in the middle of the adjustment range, screwing all three rod ends in should give you at least 1/4" of help, or more with jet nuts as lock nuts.

I don't recall the manual saying anything about this when I assembled the standard-width IRS on my mkII way back when.

[bansheekev]

I checked with FFR what the track width was supposed to be before concluding there was a problem. I confirmed that my setup was exactly what they say its supposed to be for standard width IRS (59 1/2 inches). The issue there is that if you reduce your track width and run 315's in the rear they will rub on the rear cockpit wall.

Kevin

[akpingel]

So this affects both pin drive and std width? I have a standard width, what measurements can I take for data to try and help solve the problem?

[kevin12973]

My adjusters started threaded all the way in per the manual. After the alignment they only turned the one out a few turns as needed on each side so the wheels are in as much as possible.
It looks like there is about 3'' of travel in the cage so why does ffr have the tri-lobes so close to the edge. Cant they make the shafts 1'' longer and still not come close to bottoming in the cage under compression ? Doesnt make sence to flirt with disaster.

[bansheekev]

Originally Posted by akpingel

So this affects both pin drive and std width? I have a standard width, what measurements can I take for data to try and help solve the problem?

There are a number of philosophies on how to align the IRS but they all wind up with a track width of 59.5" which is measured from the outer surface of one brake rotor to the outside surface of the other.

From there it really is looking at the tri-lobe to see of the tri-bearings are completely inside the tri-lobe or not throughout the suspension's range of travel. I can feel mine protruding about 20% through the rubber boot.

[jewels]

[QUOTE=bansheekev;2676200]There are a number of philosophies on how to align the IRS but they all wind up with a track width of 59.5" which is measured from the outer surface of one brake rotor to the outside surface of the other.

I have measured mine this way today and got 50 1/8 " from the outside surface of each rotor??

I have also pulled back both boots that are next to the center diff,
mine seem to be well inserted in the yolk?
Are the other pictures in this thread taken with the axles hanging??

My car is a MK-IV with pin drive, delivered 7/11.

Hope this helps

[bansheekev]

59.5" is for standard width. Pin drive is much less. If you pulled back the boots and the tri-bearings are all the way in the tri-lobe and not protruding you should be fine.

[Don Payne]

Originally Posted by jewels

Are the other pictures in this thread taken with the axles hanging??

For me with Pin Drive width, the difference between full droop and ride height seemed about 3/16" difference but it depends on how you look at it because the tri-lobe bearing is tipped at angle. For me the difference just meant at ride height I was screwed and a full droop I was just plain hopeless.

[oneillpete]

I talked to Rick Masters today. This is what he told me:

FF acknowledges that the driver's side ½ shaft is too short.
They will be supplying a spacer to all IRS owners (stn and pin). He said the spacer will be 1/4" (this seems too short to me) Spacers should be available in a few weeks. He also said that the spacer is only required on the driver's side, (which is also surprising to me, they base this on the fact that they have only had driver’s side failures)
They will also provide a longer 1/2 shaft for those people who are not satisfied with the spacer solution for $30.00, but it will take several months to manufacture the shafts.
Personally I made and installed 1/2" spacers on both sides.

So this is progress, even if I don't agree with the details of the solution. Perhaps Rick did not get the details correct regarding the size of the spacer, or the need for driver's side only, or both.

Pete