New Build in Long Island - NY

[CraigS]

On the rear UCA, my feeling is go ahead w/ spacers on both sides of the bolt for the front frame mount only. Don't make them too tight as you will be popping them in and out a bunch til final alignment is done. No spacers for the rear mount. Reason is that since the tubes that make up the arm are not parallel (from a top view), as you move the rodends in and out the distance between them changes.So you locate the front one and let the rear float on the bolt until final alignment is done.

[QSL]

Originally Posted by skjsming

Ed - Thanks for the comments but I am not sure what you are trying to point out. Do you see something wrong with my setup based on the pictures? If so what is it? Sorry it is not obvious to me

Passenger UCA is upside down. The cast elbow should be on the leading edge.

[BULLITT428]

skjsming:

The picture that you have showing here is of your passenger side not the driver side? Your upper control arm is on upside down. As QLS said in his post:

" The cast elbow should be on the leading edge."

To fix this you will have to take the UCA off and put the ball joint the other way around around. So the cast edge can face the front of the car. Your driver side upper control arm is correct the cast edge is facing the front of the car.

Originally Posted by skjsming

the driver side


Notice everything is pointing the right direction this time - Don't have to tell me 3 times...

The picture That I have here is of my passnger side. Notice the upper control arm and the The cast elbow is pointing to the front of the car.

Ed.

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by QSL

Passenger UCA is upside down. The cast elbow should be on the leading edge.

Originally Posted by QSL

Passenger UCA is upside down. The cast elbow should be on the leading edge.

Oh that real SUCKS!!!! B/c I am now back to my original problem of having to get the spindle off of the ball joint attached to the PS UCL arm. DAMN I really should read the instructions more carefully!!!

The good news is that when Bob came out on Sat, he told me if you hit the side on the spindle where the ball going thru the vibration will loosen the spindle off the tapered ball joint fitting. Might take two or 3 solid hits

Ed - Thanks for noticing that

Mike - thanks for explaining it

Hopefully i can work on the third redo on the front suspension.

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by BULLITT428

skjsming:

The picture that you have showing here is of your passenger side not the driver side? Your upper control arm is on upside down. As QLS said in his post:

" The cast elbow should be on the leading edge."

To fix this you will have to take the UCA off and put the ball joint the other way around around. So the cast edge can face the front of the car. Your driver side upper control arm is correct the cast edge is facing the front of the car.






The picture That I have here is of my passnger side. Notice the upper control arm and the The cast elbow is pointing to the front of the car.

Ed.

Yeah - Thanks Ed - Mike just clarified what you were pointing out. I appreciate your keen eye

[QSL]

Originally Posted by skjsming

Hopefully i can work on the third redo on the front suspension.

Dont feel bad, we have all done things like this. Like they say, if you have not done it 3 or 4 times, you are doing it wrong. LOL

Just relax and tackle it when you are calm. Its no biggie. After its done, you will have the gratification knowing its all right and you have gone over it multiple times.

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by QSL

Dont feel bad, we have all done things like this. Like they say, if you have not done it 3 or 4 times, you are doing it wrong. LOL

Just relax and tackle it when you are calm. Its no biggie. After its done, you will have the gratification knowing its all right and you have gone over it multiple times.

Mike you total misunderstood my lousy scarasium - I was not the slightest annoyed - I just have a new reason to work longer on my favorite project - THIS IS GREAT!!!! I am literally in no rush.

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by CraigS

On the rear UCA, my feeling is go ahead w/ spacers on both sides of the bolt for the front frame mount only. Don't make them too tight as you will be popping them in and out a bunch til final alignment is done. No spacers for the rear mount. Reason is that since the tubes that make up the arm are not parallel (from a top view), as you move the rodends in and out the distance between them changes.So you locate the front one and let the rear float on the bolt until final alignment is done.

Craig - Thanks for the comments. I now understand why there are no spacers in the back bolt of the LCA for now.

[BULLITT428]

[QUOTE=QSL;2695659]Dont feel bad, we have all done things like this. Like they say, if you have not done it 3 or 4 times, you are doing it wrong. LOL
QUOTE]

I can totally relate to this one. I lock wired my rear brake hats to my rotors on the wrong side only after I had BOTH done!! I noticed I did them wrong?? Had to cut them all off and redo them. It's a labour of love building one of these!

Ed.

[Doug Meldrum]

Ok, I'm reading the last several posts and got to thinking, What did I do? I didn't even notice or check. I checked and, Phew, It is done correctly. I guess I got lucky.
Then I got to thinking again, What does it matter which way the cast elbow is mounted? When the car is aligned it is all adjusted out anyway so, again, what does it matter?

D

[BlitzAttack]

Originally Posted by Doug Meldrum

Ok, I'm reading the last several posts and got to thinking, What did I do? I didn't even notice or check. I checked and, Phew, It is done correctly. I guess I got lucky.
Then I got to thinking again, What does it matter which way the cast elbow is mounted? When the car is aligned it is all adjusted out anyway so, again, what does it matter?

D

X2... What he said

[mirose]

Hey, Sal, I see that you write this....

Originally Posted by skjsming

The good news is that when Bob came out on Sat, he told me if you hit the side on the spindle where the ball going thru the vibration will loosen the spindle off the tapered ball joint fitting. Might take two or 3 solid hits

But you you neglect to mention that in your OTHER thread on the same issue I wrote

Originally Posted by mirose

and for the record, to get the outer tie rod end out of the steering arm on the spindle you don't hit the top of the tie rod bolt to mash it out of the steering arm. In fact, it works WAY better if you hit the hammer against the steering arm and for some reason the vibrations loosens up the tie rod end and it pops out. I forget why I had to remove mine way back when, but that was the advice I got and it worked perfectly.

So lets give NJ a little love for a change? Whadaya say?

But in all seriousness, your attitude is great. You are taking full advantage of the forums and the great advice here. And your build is coming along nicely! Keep up the good work! - Michael

[Freddyfroo]

Sal,

Thanks for letting me drop by and see your build while I was down there. I got back from "vacation" and now I'm back to work, with a little OT. Looking for some days off to work on my build too. I can't let you get too far ahead of me.

Fred

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by mirose

Hey, Sal, I see that you write this....



But you you neglect to mention that in your OTHER thread on the same issue I wrote



So lets give NJ a little love for a change? Whadaya say?

But in all seriousness, your attitude is great. You are taking full advantage of the forums and the great advice here. And your build is coming along nicely! Keep up the good work! - Michael

Hey Michael - Thanks for keeping me honest. There are so many helpful people on the forum I do my best to give everyone the credit for helping me (lord knows there are a lot of them and lord knows I need a lot of help) but that one got away from me... Not that you are seriously busting my chops but in the end you are going to read this, go out to your garage start your baby up and go for a ride on a sunny day like today. I am going to go out to the garage and hit my baby with a hammer to send vibrations thru the spindle to knock out the ball joint - It just seems wrong....

Congrats on your inspection again, when u are ready take the looooong drive to shake her out more the long drive out to my house

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by Freddyfroo

Sal,

Thanks for letting me drop by and see your build while I was down there. I got back from "vacation" and now I'm back to work, with a little OT. Looking for some days off to work on my build too. I can't let you get too far ahead of me.

Fred

No problems - It was nice meeting you and your wife - the good news it you can avoid some of my mishaps..

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by Doug Meldrum

Ok, I'm reading the last several posts and got to thinking, What did I do? I didn't even notice or check. I checked and, Phew, It is done correctly. I guess I got lucky.
Then I got to thinking again, What does it matter which way the cast elbow is mounted? When the car is aligned it is all adjusted out anyway so, again, what does it matter?

D

Blitzattack & Doug - I was wondering the same thing so I called FFR. Here is what they said - that you could leave it but when u go to align the car the adjustment movements would be opposite of the driver's side. He also said he "believed" that it would put the angle of the ball joint slight off from it's true position. Just passing along the info.

[rscocca]

The ball joint plate will be the same either way. If it where different that would mean the plate was twisted-- not good.

From way back when--

[mirose]

Originally Posted by skjsming

Hey Michael - Thanks for keeping me honest. There are so many helpful people on the forum I do my best to give everyone the credit for helping me (lord knows there are a lot of them and lord knows I need a lot of help) but that one got away from me... Not that you are seriously busting my chops but in the end you are going to read this, go out to your garage start your baby up and go for a ride on a sunny day like today. I am going to go out to the garage and hit my baby with a hammer to send vibrations thru the spindle to knock out the ball joint - It just seems wrong....

Congrats on your inspection again, when u are ready take the looooong drive to shake her out more the long drive out to my house

Of course, I was totally kidding, Sal. As for taking my baby for a ride...yeah, if the NJ DMV would just SEND ME THE DAMN TITLE I might have plates and be driving the darn car. Even worse, I got a piece of mail from the DMV today and ripped it open all excited to jump in my car and drive to DMV to pick up the plates only to find out its my PIN number to register for vanity plates. Nope, thats not going to get me on the road. To say my excitment was deflated was the understatement of the day. Well, maybe tomorrow. I get home from work around 3 so if its in the mailbox I might even be able to run over to DMV The are open until 5:30pm.

Your current set of posts about the UCA's and which direction they need to be pointing got me to run out to my car and check mine...Phew. They are on correctly. I guess either I am very lucky in 50/50 situations, or maybe I actually was still reading the manual back in the beginning of the build and it kept me out of trouble.

Now that the car is built, its weird, I miss having stuff to do...The build was so much fun. Well, I did receive a bigger radiator overflow tank today...so I can put that in...and I guess in preparation for my plates, I can do jkleiners MK4 license plate bracket mod. Yay. After that all I have left is to shove a pool noodle in the passenger side to block hot engine air from coming in the cockpit. How depressing that is all coming to an end. Well, maybe something will break...and then I can fix it. We can only hope, right? :-)

[skjsming]

Ok so the last real update was back on 8/5. Let’s get caught up shall we… I have to do this update over several post according to forum rules about the number of images you can have in one post is limited to 12..

Third Attempt at UCA

Let’s start with my inability to get the Passenger UCA on correctly after two attempts. As you guys pointed out (THANK YOU) my UCA on the PS was upside down. The casted edge of the UCA was not towards the front. A pic of the incorrectly mounted upside down passenger side UCA



Well take this…



In the end I took Michael and Bob’s advice and hit the side of the spindle with a hammer and surprisingly the vibration released the ball joints – who would of known… Obviously Michael & Bob...



FRONT BRAKES –

Next Father and Daughter took on the Wilwood front breaks. Pretty straight forward. Unpacked the parts torqued the arm on the spindles to 65 ft/lbs. But I had to go to Sears to pick up an extra 19mm socket so I could grind down the outside of it so it would fit between the spindle and the nut to bolt on the arm.



Then started screwing the Disc to the Hats. What team work we had, after running back to Sears for a 12 point 8 mm socket, I can not believe I only had 6 point 8mm sockets. Whatever... Back in the garage with the new Sear’s 12 point 8 mm socket, we were on fire, me hand starting the screw, Jessie torqueing behind me. Then I hear, “Snap, Oops “ Jessie snapped a bolt in the hat. “No problem, keep going just be care when the wrench clicks stop.” On to the next bolt – “SNAP”. Two "SNAPS" look like this



Ok hold on now what is going on. “Dad I am torque to 155 ft/lb just like the directions say”
“Let me see the wrench – yup it is set correct. Let me see the directions – yup that is what they say… Waiting look they changed the scale from ft/lbs to IN/lbs within the same paragraph.

The step right before the screwing the disc to the hat says...


The next step changes from ft/lbs to in/lbs


Meaning we were torquing the bolts or I guess i should say attempting to torque the bolts at 155 ft/lbs instead of 12.9 ft/lbs after the conversion!!!

Come on Ref that is a Flag Violation. THROW THE FLAG, REF WHAT ARE YOU BLIND!!!



As I told Jessie, no big deal that is why god invented machine shops and guys like Phil (who owns the machine shop) and helicoils. So go see my friend Phil. Picture this I start explaining I am building a car, ft/lb, in/lbs, the directions, changed in the same paragraph, the ref throwing the flag,.. and Phil puts his hand up, say “go away, come back in 30 mins, part will be by the door, don’t talk to me” – PROBLEM SOLVED – I think Phil is starting to like me more and more

Now we get back to it wrench set correct 155 in/lbs which equals 12.9 ft/lbs as oppose the 155 ft/lbs we were doing it at. Shockingly no more bolts snapped

Next the safety wire – Not bad, if I do say so



Mounted on the spindles and then the calibers.




– Done

[skjsming]

THIS THE SECOND PART OF THE POST...


OK ONTO THE WILWOOD PEDAL BOX

Step 1 remove Brake pedal – Done
Step 2 drill mounting hole in the small spade shaped bracket that holds the brake indicator sensor. Look at, measure, line up the spot, mount it in the vice, drill the hole, bring it back to the peddle assy to screw it in – we are cruising now until I realized I drilled the hole too high and there is no way it will grab the part of the peddle assy it suppose to screw in

What the hell it that saying “drill twice measure once” No that is not it, “measure twice, drill once?” No that is not it, oh yeah I got “Hi Factory Five this is Sal again, I screwed up can you send me another…” Yep that is it.

Put peddle assy back in box waiting new replacement tab but I painted the brackets


On to PS Footbox - Damn we are cruising through this project

Fabrications on the PS Footbox.

Let me start but saying (and I know this is going to be a surprise to everyone but) I never attempted or fabricated anything with sheet metal or anything like this. Let me finish by saying after spend all day on Sat (7 am to 8 pm) I still have never (now I can say) “successfully” fabricated anything with sheet metal or anything like this. If you care you can read on for the pure entertainment factor or spare me and jump to the next section

I knew you would just read on - you have no heart... Enjoy

I woke up last saturday morning ready for the challenge. Jessie and I had already fabricated the mock out of heavy poster paper,


During the week prior, I bought am 4x8 sheet of .040 3030 aluminum, an air nibble, a break, fine tooth jigsaw blades and had the drawings printed out to scale – I had everything, how could I not be able to do this…

Start by cutting a piece of the big sheet so I can make it manageable to the final piece I want to work with. I get the nibbler and start. I get one line cut done and quickly realize that A) not the right tool for this job or B) it might me or C) the material or D) I just don’t get how to use the nibbler correctly. Probably a combination of B & D Plan B use jigsaw.

Next I tape down the temple for one of panels that will make up the PS expanded footbox to the smaller piece on aluminum I nibbled off and get the jigsaw and off we go.


Cut everything, file the edges, etc All looks pretty good but the material does seems too thin or maybe just soft.

Ok all 6 pieces cut & filed smooth, next set up the break, small $69.00 type break. I bend the first 90 degree tab not too bad if I do say so myself and I do. Next try to figure out the next bend but my first bend is in the way and there are not “fingers” to remove in the break bend surface. Ok let’s try working on a homemade break for the next bend.

Yeah that is not going to work, let just delete those photo and go with PLAN C

Plan C - this is why god not only invented machine shops but metal shops too. Next week I will get an estimate to cut & bend up the box “professionally”. As Jessie wants more room for her feet.

I would if Phil likes...

to drink seems like me and him are going to get to know each other pretty well...

I was not mad or annoyed, I did get to spend the entire day in the garage but then panic did hit me. I knew I had to go in the house and SHE be there waiting for me, SHE be there with that question, that question I knew I had to be able to answer. “So Babe, you have a good time with your car, what did you get done today?” CRAP what was I going to say, I found out I am not a fabricator (no surprise there), or worst yet I would have to say literally nothing, I got nothing done all day. Sweat start breaking out my forehead, which is big given I have no hair. I look around and saw my answer, my savor. The hinge on the door into the house from the garage was broken and she has been after me to fix it.

It took 5 mins to put the new hinge on. So to be clear the story is it took 13hrs and 5mins to install the hinge. Got it, stick to the story, do not cave no matter what happens, stick to the story... Then I walked thru the door (with the new hinge on it) saw my loving wife and got, “So Babe, you have a good time with your car, what did you get done today?”

"Oh I fixed the door hinge like you asked"

She stopped & looked at me and said “the hinge?”
“Yup”
“All day on the hinge and nothing on the car?”
“Yup”
“Did you use the new nibble thing on the hinge?”
“Yup”
“Did you use those new blades we stopped for on the hinge?”
“Yup”
“And the bendie thing too?”
“Yup”
“So you decided to have that footbox thing done by the machine guy - Phil?”
“Yup”
“You want a beer?”
“Yup”

A kiss, a beer and a day in the garage, if solving world hunger was only so easy

Driveside Footbox and Firewall Forward

Sunday back out to the garage I spent all day playing with and fitting the DS Footbox and firewall forward. I nipped here and cut there but all went together pretty smoothly.

But by now you know there is always something, that is why you read this in the first place…

I put the firewall forward on and off a bunch of times while fitting it together. I finally was ready to drill, started with the driver’s side firewall into the DS Footbox covers and then did zigzag pattern down the rail b/c that many holes looked like overkill into the frame.

I get to the passenger side and realized that I last time I put the firewall forward panel on I did not slide it (fit it) all the way to the passenger side so it short piece of frame.



The gap is only 3/16”, I called FFMetal to confirm that having it skewed towards the driver’s side would not have an issue later, like when I put the body on. He said, it would not, that the net effect was it would move the arch over 1/32…

So not I have 2 questions.

1. I believe FFMETALS there is no way that 3/16 skew will cause me issues late, agree?
2. I was going to put a 3/16 thick aluminum to fill the gap, drill and rivet the firewall forward piece, 3/16 aluminum fill piece and the 3/4 vertical frame together. Makes sense to me any issues?

Ok so that get us up to date as of the morning of 8/25.

8/25 - Peddle Assy & DS Footbox

I basically worked on fitting & drilling the DS Footbox. It was going pretty well but I was having a hard time get the far left vertical panel and the floor panel to line up. It seemed no matter what I did it was going to be pushed out on the bottom away from this frame rail (RED ARROW)


I finally realized that the left most bend on the floor panel was bent incorrectly, it was off by 1/2" from where it should be


I can hammer the panel flat no problem but in all seriousness I can not figure out how to put a reasonable straight 120 degree bend back on the panel. Not really an issue b/c Phil is always willing to help but it does slow me down.

QUESTIONS:

1. Also when you rivet the DS Footbox floor panel to you get so you can rivet to the side of the tubular frame and the bottom of the frame pointed out by the red arrow?

I would have to put 3 aluminum shims (the thickness of the aluminum that comes with the kit) under the tube pointed out my the red arrow. There is a weld I can grind down under the blue arrow but even if I do that I think i would need the shims.

Q2. If I do decide to grind the weld down, just tape off the area round it, prime and hit it with high gloss enamel rustoleum paint to match the powder coating.


I also did a temp install of the pedal box just to get a feel for it. I have a bunch of questions but want to do some research first.

Tomorrow:

I want to focus on fitting and drilling the aluminum that has to get done so I can focus on get them out to a powder coater. I will used the checklist on the MK4build site to make sure I get all of them.

Well that about sums up the last 3 weeks. As always any comments, jokes and critiques are welcomed.

Having the time of my life, tomorrow Grandpa is coming out to help my & jessie - lord help us... I better make sure I have enough beer in the refig...

[QSL]

great update and progress!!!!

Dont worry about the bolts on the brakes.... Uhmmm, i did the exact same thing. When you think back on it, you really start to realize how stupid it was LOL. Dont worry, you can buy just one or two bolts from willwood, but the will box it up in a box big enough for a rotor and charge you 12 bucks for shipping...

Your doing everything right, dont worry

[sejust2009]

I have read through your entire thread, and am enjoying your progress, with the expected mishaps from time to time. When I finally get mine ordered and working on it, I am sure that I will have at least as many issues... Anyway great thread, gets my heart pumping to be able to read your excitement and enjoyment so far!

-Steve

[skjsming]

Ok so Jessie, Grandpa and I spent 12 hrs in the garage today “bonding” also know as fitting, trimming and drilling sheet metal.

The only reason we stopped was we snapped every 1/8” bit I had which was about 25 bits including 10 double sided shorties – It was a family thing with Darlene taking photos and laughing at us….

Yes I take after my father in terms of my curly hair



Summary

DS Footbox – Fitted and Drilled
DS Floor – Fitted and Drilled
U-Joint Access Panel -– Fitted and Drilled
DS Transmission Cover, Rear Corner – Fitted and Drilled
DS Cockpit wall, under door – Fitted and Drilled
DS Cockpit Rear Corner – Fitted and Drilled
DS Outside Truck Wall– Fitted and Drilled
DS Inside Truck Wall – Fitted and Drilled
PS Floor – Fitted and Drilled
PS Transmission Cover, Rear Corner – Fitted and Drilled
PS Cockpit wall, under door – Fitted and Drilled
PS Cockpit Rear Corner – Fitted and Drilled
PS Outside Truck Wall – Fitted and Drilled
PS Inside Truck Wall – Fitted and Drilled
Cockpit Wall behind seats – Fitted and Drilled
Lower Rear Truck – Fitted and Drilled

The DS Footbox is done but I need to borrow the temp rivets



I have to figure out what the DS &PS Shock Tower Block Off Plate (IRS ONLY) are – I just put a separate Post up asking for help on that

We had one issue today in terms of fitting the Rear Cockpit Vertical Wall behind the attaching edge side of both the DS & PS Cockpit Rear Corners. In the end we decide to add an 2” x 7 “ extension to both sides of the Vertical Cockpit Wall. Here is a pic not great but I think you will get it



Here is a pic on the piece in their final position


That is it for now...

[NiceGuyEddie]

LQQKING good, Sal! do yourself a favor, put some blue tape on the round tubes in the engine bay as well... you will step in and out of there more times than you can imagine.

[mirose]

Sal, great progress

The build looks great and the updates are hilarious. Keep em coming!

-Michael

[rscocca]

Hey Sal
Whats with the FOR SALE sign, Driving you crazy already
This is still the fun part wait till you need to start taking it all back apart and you misplace something, look for hours only to find it under the car the whole time. (don't ask how I know this one.)

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by rscocca

Hey Sal
Whats with the FOR SALE sign, Driving you crazy already

My wife Darlene sense of humor... I take it down and she puts it back up. I think she is still holding a grudge when I told her to open the box (her gift) when I was away for our anniversary and she got a power steering rack...

[CraigS]

Sal, things are looking great. I really enjoy your posts and especially your sense of humor. A story for you to compare to you giving your wife a power steering rack. A couple of summers ago I ordered a set of wheels and thought I had scheduled them to arrive on my day off work so i could store them out of sight. A day early I get a call from my wife asking if it's Christmas. I was surprised and kind of busy at work and hesitated, so she says why did she have to move 4 boxes so she could get into the garage. Finally I figured out what happened and all I could say was something like..."Well, I guess it's Christmas in July for me!". I was a little scared as I pulled into the drive that night!! A couple of thoughts for you. Be careful bending the aluminum. The tempered alum can be bent and 'maybe' straightened out. But if you try to bend it again, it will start to crack.On torqueing bolts as a guideline here is a chart. Note that most of the FFR bolts will be grade 5 so use that column.
Steel Bolt Torque Specifications Table - Engineer's Handbook
This chart is for dry assembly which is 98% of what you will be doing. You can find other charts that will have different columns depending on what the bolt is lubed with. Keep up the good work!

[skjsming]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Sal, things are looking great. I really enjoy your posts and especially your sense of humor. A story for you to compare to you giving your wife a power steering rack. A couple of summers ago I ordered a set of wheels and thought I had scheduled them to arrive on my day off work so i could store them out of sight. A day early I get a call from my wife asking if it's Christmas. I was surprised and kind of busy at work and hesitated, so she says why did she have to move 4 boxes so she could get into the garage. Finally I figured out what happened and all I could say was something like..."Well, I guess it's Christmas in July for me!". I was a little scared as I pulled into the drive that night!! A couple of thoughts for you. Be careful bending the aluminum. The tempered alum can be bent and 'maybe' straightened out. But if you try to bend it again, it will start to crack.On torqueing bolts as a guideline here is a chart. Note that most of the FFR bolts will be grade 5 so use that column.
Steel Bolt Torque Specifications Table - Engineer's Handbook
This chart is for dry assembly which is 98% of what you will be doing. You can find other charts that will have different columns depending on what the bolt is lubed with. Keep up the good work!

Thanks I appreciate the story and the chart

[mirose]

Sal, I am just curious...why do you think you broke so many 1/8 bits? I maybe used 6 or 8 the whole build.

Maybe you should rethink this whole "grandpa/Beer" thing while using power tools LOL


But kidding aside, I really am curious why you think so many broke?

Michael