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Old 12-18-2011, 08:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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installing a hydraulic clutch

I have been reading the threads about installing a hydraulic clutch. I would like to see some pics how the the clutch pedal connect to the hydraulic mechanism. Also, where can one get the adapter plate for the the slave cylinder to attach to the transmission?
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If you are using the Wilwood pedal assembly as supplied by FFR, you simply add a clutch slave to the pedal assembly. You should have received everything necessary with the pedal assembly,except the master cylinder. The clutch master connects to the clutch with a 3/16" line. The slave is usually about 7/8"diameter and the master will be approximately the same. Fortes Parts makes the transmission bracket and can provide the master as well as the slave. Depending on the clutch you are using, the pedal feel may be too light if using a 7/8" master. I went to a 1" master to provide more pedal feel. You will also need to cut an access door in the drivers foot box top for maintenance. Here's a photo of the master cylinders and the access door.


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Last edited by J Persons; 12-18-2011 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I just purchased a complete kit from Forte for $350 or thereabouts. They said it has everything needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old crows gather hear View Post
I have been reading the threads about installing a hydraulic clutch. I would like to see some pics how the the clutch pedal connect to the hydraulic mechanism. Also, where can one get the adapter plate for the the slave cylinder to attach to the transmission?
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Icon21 i modified mine above and below at the tranny

J's pic shows the M/C area the plastic pic-ups can be an issue with leaking so make sure you install them and check for leaks prior to covering them up where they become an issue on accessablity
i moved my fuse panel to the passenger side to make more room added to the harness length for the front harness, easier access will be your best friend in this area, it becomes very tight for space and when you go and put the windscreen on you will be making everyones ears' ring

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Old 12-18-2011, 11:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is what I did...
Slave cylinder bracket
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Dan, I never really noticed it before, but I'll bet that aluminum fork setup from Forte has a really nice and short throw. Seems like it could disengage the clutch effectively without a lot of pedal travel. Is that what you have experienced with it?
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you are using a T-5 tranny you can get this kit from Autoworks International at Autoworks International for about $300.00
Jim
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File Type: jpg clutch_kit2.jpg (34.4 KB, 138 views)
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi Don,
I think the slave is a 7/8" bore and the master is 15/16". It completely disengages with about 1/3 to 1/2 of the possible pedal throw with great modulation.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNJSNAK View Post
If you are using a T-5 tranny you can get this kit from Autoworks International at Autoworks International for about $300.00
Jim
yep i have seen them they adapt for the early mustangs
and the return spring which is what i did on mine
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNJSNAK View Post
If you are using a T-5 tranny you can get this kit from Autoworks International at Autoworks International for about $300.00
Jim
I have that exact kit on my T-5 and 5.0 bellhousing, it works great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did my own custom master up top with the Fox pedals and a replacement quardrant. Fully adjustable, like driving a Toyoat, used a SPEC clutch
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Dan, I just finished installing Mike's Forte's hydraulics also but looking at yours I had visions of my wife's MG with the bleeder on the bottom, those silly British.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Forte's External Slave

Hi Guys,
The picture attached has the feed on the top and bleeder on the bottom. As we all know the bleeder needs to be on the top for the air to escape out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akdreamer23 View Post
Forte's





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Old 01-02-2012, 05:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yes, Mike,

I did change them before I filled it
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Also have Mike's setup. Works great with the Quicktime Bellhousing and a Quartermaster clutch. Also have the Wilwood pedals and masters. And yes, by all means make the pedal box cover removable. I did mine with rivet nuts.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Timely thread as I have been working several hours trying to get my Forte hydraulic clutch working this weekend.

The end result seems to be that the clutch arm is not moving enough to engage the clutch and then when it does move after I get the system fully bleed (or close to it) wamo, the slave cylinder splats or empty's out all the fluid because the cylinder in the slave moves out to far.

I can't quite figure out what the problem is as I have adjusted the foot pedal and the piston on the slave cylinder 4 or 5 times now. Everyday that I wake up I get on this forum and read all the thorough documentation on this subject. I will be calling Mike today at 10AM and I hope I am his first customer in line as I really want to get this completed and put behind me...
forte hydro clutch.jpg

blowout.jpg

cnc res.jpg

blowout 2.jpg

arm back.jpg

My setup
T5z
QT bellhousing
cobra clutch (Valeo)
F5 Willwood pedal box
1" Willwood Master Cylinder
7/8" CNC Slave
CNC Reservoirs
1 dumb guy behind the wheel trying to get this to work.

p.s. I know I should probably start a new thread on this and I will later on today if Mike and I cannot resolve my problem over the phone.

p.s.s the following thread is extremely helpful. Hydraulic clutch issue
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have a very unique set up with a 427w, short input shaft tko600, Quicktime toploader bellhousing, and FE style fork (required set up for my cobra). Mike put together the right parts for my set up and it works perfectly (well, now that I actually bled it correctly).

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Old 01-02-2012, 01:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoneGuy View Post
Timely thread as I have been working several hours trying to get my Forte hydraulic clutch working this weekend.

The end result seems to be that the clutch arm is not moving enough to engage the clutch and then when it does move after I get the system fully bleed (or close to it) wamo, the slave cylinder splats or empty's out all the fluid because the cylinder in the slave moves out to far.

I can't quite figure out what the problem is as I have adjusted the foot pedal and the piston on the slave cylinder 4 or 5 times now. Everyday that I wake up I get on this forum and read all the thorough documentation on this subject. I will be calling Mike today at 10AM and I hope I am his first customer in line as I really want to get this completed and put behind me...
Attachment 28722

Attachment 28723

Attachment 28724

Attachment 28725

Attachment 28726


My setup
T5z
QT bellhousing
cobra clutch (Valeo)
F5 Willwood pedal box
1" Willwood Master Cylinder
7/8" CNC Slave
CNC Reservoirs
1 dumb guy behind the wheel trying to get this to work.

p.s. I know I should probably start a new thread on this and I will later on today if Mike and I cannot resolve my problem over the phone.

p.s.s the following thread is extremely helpful. Hydraulic clutch issue
Adjust the slave push rod so the throwout bearing is touching the pressure plate diaphragm. If the slave is overextending, you will need to fabricate a pedal stop to prevent the over extension.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Phoneguy, you overextended the slave and it looks like the piston and seal are pushed out of the bore. This is a huge problem and unless you can rebuild the slave, you need to replace it. Fix that and then adjust as John says above. The slave should only need to move about an inch.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Clutch

Make sure the piston on the slave cylinder is pushed in as far as it will go before you attach it to the fork. In your first picture, it looks like the rod is extended, and with no hose connected, at rest. The kit I recieved had two different length spindles for this. It was probably the 7th or 8th time of bleeding the cylinder before I got everything adjusted the way I thought it should be.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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now we have a whole different bracket for the Push slave? Phoneguy
looks to me too far away and why is the bracket so big, seems like a lot of metal in the way for nothing behind the slave bracket.
there are other length rams for the slave too, the alignment looks off on the fork too.
i sent you a PM
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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My Small Block set-up uses the Ford Bellhousing and fork, so the ratios stayed the same.

When I bled the system, I both bled at the slave, and cracked the line up on the master, so tried to get the air out on both ends. It is a PIA, and the process takes longer, but once done, you never have to open the system again, as you simply remove the slave assy from the bellhousing before removing anything.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Smoker View Post
Make sure the piston on the slave cylinder is pushed in as far as it will go before you attach it to the fork. In your first picture, it looks like the rod is extended, and with no hose connected, at rest. The kit I recieved had two different length spindles for this. It was probably the 7th or 8th time of bleeding the cylinder before I got everything adjusted the way I thought it should be.
Mike - Yes, I have the slave cylinder pushed in all the way. I only received 1 length spindle and it is funny that you bring this up because I was wondering if the spindle was long enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLeo69 View Post
now we have a whole different bracket for the Push slave? Phoneguy
looks to me too far away and why is the bracket so big, seems like a lot of metal in the way for nothing behind the slave bracket.
there are other length rams for the slave too, the alignment looks off on the fork too.
i sent you a PM
HTH
Big Leo, I read your PM thanks for the info, I will read through your profile pictures when I return from the store. Need more brake fluid - I have already used up quarts (big bottles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chepsk8 View Post
My Small Block set-up uses the Ford Bellhousing and fork, so the ratios stayed the same.

When I bled the system, I both bled at the slave, and cracked the line up on the master, so tried to get the air out on both ends. It is a PIA, and the process takes longer, but once done, you never have to open the system again, as you simply remove the slave assy from the bellhousing before removing anything.
Cheepsk8 - I agree this is a PIA and when I get this thing working a celebration will be had at the Russel house. I will try your bleeding method upon my return.

Update - I have taken the whole assembly apart and cleaned out all the fluid. Put back everything with clean tight (not to tight) connections with plumber paste just to ensure no leaks. Also, one other part of my setup that I didn't mention was that I have the CNC air bleeder as well. Took me 3 different type of pumps that work at 4lb's but got that to work on the last go around as well. So maybe with all the above input and help, the 3rd time will be the charm. Although I will say that I talked to Mike Forte and he thinks there is an issue with the pressure plate and flywheel. He says that this is an issue he is working with Valeo on. My hope is that this is not the case as I don't feel like pulling all that apart as I will probably have to pull the engine. Personally, I think the piston rod in the slave cylinder is too short - but I am no expert at this setup.
slave assembly.jpg

- Cheers and thanks for your help and input.

Bob
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A couple of things to check:

1) make sure your slave pushrod is pushed all the way back before you - edit - I see that you have already addressed this

2) try to measure how much throw you have. I had my wife depress the clutch while I layed under the car with a measuring tape. I found that my pressure plate (exedy) was bad and needed something like 2" of travel which just wasn't going to happen. New pressure plate, all problems went away

3) double check your pivot height. by setting it a little further out you can gain some additional clutch travel. I used the Lakewood adjustable clutch pivot to do this.

4) adjust the fork so that when at rest the throwout bearing is touching the pressure plate tynes (sp?). I am told that Ford designed this system such that the bearing should always be spinning. As someone else noted, it looks like your pushrod might be too far back at rest Speedway sells a longer version for that slave and I bought one that I am not going to use so send me a PM if you would like it.

My biggest problem turned out to be the warped pressure plate. I think it might have gotten screwed up when the engine shop welded a weight on for balance but I must say that the sucker was far too stiff anyway and it needed far too much throw to disengage. Changing out to a new clutch immediately solved my problem but I hope yours is simply one of the adjustments above.



HTH
Todd

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoneGuy View Post
Timely thread as I have been working several hours trying to get my Forte hydraulic clutch working this weekend.

The end result seems to be that the clutch arm is not moving enough to engage the clutch and then when it does move after I get the system fully bleed (or close to it) wamo, the slave cylinder splats or empty's out all the fluid because the cylinder in the slave moves out to far.

I can't quite figure out what the problem is as I have adjusted the foot pedal and the piston on the slave cylinder 4 or 5 times now. Everyday that I wake up I get on this forum and read all the thorough documentation on this subject. I will be calling Mike today at 10AM and I hope I am his first customer in line as I really want to get this completed and put behind me...
Attachment 28722

Attachment 28723

Attachment 28724

Attachment 28725

Attachment 28726

My setup
T5z
QT bellhousing
cobra clutch (Valeo)
F5 Willwood pedal box
1" Willwood Master Cylinder
7/8" CNC Slave
CNC Reservoirs
1 dumb guy behind the wheel trying to get this to work.

p.s. I know I should probably start a new thread on this and I will later on today if Mike and I cannot resolve my problem over the phone.

p.s.s the following thread is extremely helpful. Hydraulic clutch issue

Last edited by tjmotter; 01-02-2012 at 04:39 PM..
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Update:

After reassembly and a nice clean bleeding, (I called Mike to verify I was bleeding correctly) I put the tranny in gear, pushed on the clutch and tried to turn the driveshaft and the thing wouldn't turn. I also adjusted the pedal height to 9 & 3/8" and I am thoroughly convinced that I need a longer pushrod on the slave cylinder. I called Mike and he is going to ship me a new rod.
When I put the slave back together, I unscrewed the pushrod as much as possible to give it more length and to get rid of the cylinder blowout. This worked as I didn't blow out the piston but the clutch arm only moves about 3/4". A longer pushrod is needed in my opinion. We shall see once the new longer shows up.
I even recruited a helper (my wife) and here is a measurement of the pedal. I want to put the pedal back to 8 & 3/4" if possible, but that doesn't bother me as much as not getting the clutch to engage.
Patty helping
patty help.jpg
new pedal measurement
9 inch measurement.jpg
clean re-assembly
clean retry.jpg
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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air bleed is very important if you think you got it all by hand you probably need a pressure bleeder.
a tip would be put your tires on prop the back up fire it up and the clutch shouldn't be engaging tire should have no movement if any it can be stopped by hand in neutral of course and clutch engaged. another tip shift from 5th to reverse this will give you better engagemnet to reverse, there should be no grinding when engine is running and you go from 5th to reverse. HTH

make sure the TO is installed correctly
make sure clutch fork is installed correctly on TO

you will be climbing out and from under the car many times for adjustment so eat your Wheaties. also this will make you speak words only sailors know

HTH
good job Patty
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start-up Pearl Harbor Day 12/07/10
go-cart Memorial Day 2011
body on 11/11/11 Veterans Day
all legal except paint 02/12/12
372w handbuilt
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Mine did the same thing. I went to the next size larger master cylinder which pushed a greater volume of fluid thus pushing the rod on the slave cylinder further. Works great now.
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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clutch

Just for fun, if you have some longer bolts (1/4-20) and some washers, you could move the fork mount closer to the slave cylinder and see if that engages the clutch. My bellows was a lot more collapsed than yours is. To be honost, I sure am glad I got the aluminum mount instead of the mount Fortes is selling now. I went through 3 master cylinder changes and the spindle changes, and all the adjustment changes before I was happy with the clutch. We have similar set ups except I have the aluminum bellhousing and a 3550 trans.

Good luck, Mike
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