Threw out the cable-drives and went with synchronized marine wipers! - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

jdl902 · 09-02-2011, 08:40 PM

I need wipers! I have a top and plan on a heater so I can get an extra two or three months of driving in the wet Ottawa spring and fall. I tried to make the cable-driven wipers work and got to a point where they would, in fact, wipe water off the window. However I never felt confident that the system would work when I needed it and advice like "don't turn them on when the windshield is dry" did not inspire confidence.

So I hit the internet and found some kick-ass, sealed, marine wipers AND a controller that synchronizes the wipers and gives multiples speeds. Topped it off with Finishline wiper arms and blades, MG bezels and a custom-made nut and spacer. Looks good and most importantly the system is strong enough to wipe a small child off the windshield, I have no fear it's going to crap out on me at an inopportune time.

The motors and control box came to $370 which is heavier but otherwise compares pretty well to $500 for the FFR cable kit. Don't forget the blades, arms and bezels on top of the $370.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...067&id=1297900
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...583&id=1567936

I ran the motors at their max sweep of 110 degrees to get pretty good, not perfect, coverage of the windshield. The synchronizer is needed to keep the blades from crashing into each other since their arcs overlap. You could do without it by reducing the arcs but you'd also have a lot less glass to look through.

Overview (sorry for the reflections)

Close up showing the MG bezel/gasket and the nice, slim nut Bert spun up in the machine shop for me. I had to zip cut a bit of length off the knurled end of the motor but a little dressing with a file and she fit the wipers perfectly.

Mounting turned out to be simple with a bit of customized threaded rod running through the firewall to a $3 shelf bracket on the cross bar under the dash. This simultaneously gives the motor a solid mount, stiffens my firewall and the lower leg is riveted to the lower edge of my dash to make it rock solid. Stamped steel shelf brackets are a new favorite in my bag of tricks: loads of stiffness for cheap and lightweight to boot. This photo also shows the angled spacer required to squash the whole assembly firmly onto the cowl

The motor barely fits on the driver side but it all worked out using the stock location of the wipers in the FFR manual. The hood latch is in the way and the threaded rod which curls back from the far-driver's side of the motor and is bolted to the firewall. The firewall is already pretty stiff here so I didn't add anything else.

And finally to prove that it's not a pretty mock-up but actually works

Cheers,
Jason

jdl902 · 09-02-2011, 08:41 PM

One more thing, the motors are far enough under the cowl that unless your very short or bend over to poke your head into the engine bay you don't see them. Otherwise I would have painted them a more manly shade of white!

5.8Cobra · 09-03-2011, 01:25 AM

As has been said, necessity is the mother of invention! Great find and nice write-up with pics. Sure looks like it beats messing with FFR's setup even though its period correct. Keep us posted on the long term testing!

Mike

jdl902 · 10-10-2012, 05:37 PM

It's been over a year and the system is still working flawlessly. Having a soft-top, they've seen a fair bit of action, now I see the need for a washer as well.

rscocca · 10-10-2012, 06:44 PM

Do you have any dimensions on the unit. Will it work with a firewall Forward kit?

dallas_ · 10-10-2012, 07:11 PM

That's pretty cool. I like seeing how others have come up with creative options. Thanks for sharing.

C6ZZ · 10-11-2012, 02:41 PM

That looks like a great mod. I got stuck in a downpour last month on the interstate just as my drivers side wiper quit working.
One more thing to modify.
Take care.
Andrew

CraigS · 10-11-2012, 11:25 PM

Thanks. I just made a new folder and saved this post and both your links to it.

jdl902 · 10-12-2012, 02:47 AM

My firewall is moved forward though I can't remember by how much now, at least an inch maybe 1.5. The dimensions for the motor can be found on the manufacturer's site. It's a pretty quick mod once the angle-cut spacers are made, much quicker than getting the cable-drive to work.

The motor locations might make an AC install tight, I've been waiting (and waiting) for dimensions from Whitby to see if I can still fit their unit under the motor. Richard's plenum won't fit though his condenser would still probably fit in the space with a custom plenum.

I'm waiting to see who will try three wipers. That worked great on my MGB and I kind of wish I had greater coverage than two short blades can provide.

Ringo222 · 10-12-2012, 12:43 PM

I was thinking this would be a great way to get one wiper on the car. Cheap if you only want one. My wife does not need to see where we are going.

RICKE · 10-12-2012, 01:20 PM

jdl902,

Which motor shaft length did you use - 1 1/2", 2 1/2", or 3 1/2"?
Love the mods. Great look under & above!

jdl902 · 10-12-2012, 01:33 PM

I used the 2-1/2. This could be different if you used different bezels on top.

STEVO · 11-13-2012, 11:28 PM

I basically bought the FFR wiper kit just to pass the state inspection. I'm not a fan of them because it seems like the whole thing is flopping around under the hood... I know the drive shaft of the wiper tends to skip and there goes the whole dam thing.....

So for me it is more of a static display, I would use Rain-x before using the wipers..
Thanks for the info--woth looking into,,,stevo

Riebelt · 11-14-2012, 01:24 AM

Great set-up! Can I offer a suggestion? Get the wipers above the winshield frame. Don't let them come to rest on the frame. Over time and depending on use, the rubber will wear into the surface. You will have scuff marks or worse, a rub through to the brass. I've seen a few where this has happened. If you are using the Finish Line wiper arms you can extend the arm a bit.

jdl902 · 11-14-2012, 02:43 PM

Thanks for the tip on wiper position. Having already had some issues with the chrome on the frame in other areas I can see how that would happen. I do use the wipers a fair bit these days and a quick run across town in the rain is probably a few hundred cycles of rubbing multiplied by several days multiplied by crappy chrome = potential problems.

Too bad, it won't look as neat that way but I guess that's one of those things only I will notice.

loeffler1 · 11-15-2012, 12:33 PM

I have a coupe and this looks like it could be adapted. I added the prices up and it came to $409.97. They probably changed prices since you ordered yours. Did the kit include the hardware for mounting the motors and shafts. The coupe doesn't need angled bezels as there is an angled portion of the fiberglass that mounts the original wheel boxes. Matter of fact with the coupe kit you get the angled bezels that are used on the roadster which you have to cut off the angled portion in order to use them for the coupe. Doesn't sound like a dry windshield would stop these babies. Does this company also supply the arms and blades?

Bill

AC Bill · 11-16-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loeffler1

Does this company also supply the arms and blades?

Most Marine supply stores will carry them, in quite a broad range of sizes.

I always felt that a marine wiper system, would be far superior to the FFR system, with all of it's issues.

It's great to see someone figured out how to use a marine system successfully.
There are several different marine wiper systems available, Some have motors that are more compact than the ones jdl is using, (just in case your space is more limited)

Even with the pictures, I still can't quite figure out how exactly the motors are mounted?
Does the wiper motor itself, come with a mounting bracket that is used, and is threaded rod is bolted to that? How did you get that angle on the motor? Does the threaded rod run through the firewall at an angle?
What kind of shelf bracket is being incorporated? Those L shaped kind, that mount to a wall?

Any pictures of it prior to installation, that shows how it all goes together?

jdl902 · 11-19-2012, 12:51 AM

A dry windshield will not stop these wipers! I can't speak for the coupe setup but other than the motors I used MG parts for bezels, arms and blades. I needed to make the spacer that fits between the motor and the underside of the cowl. The only trick here is the control box that synchronizes the motors because the blades can overlap this way and cover more windshield (as a bonus you get a few speeds as well); I don't know of any other off-the-shelf way to do this. Mechanically linking the arms would be lighter and cheaper but threatened to eat up too many evenings with tinkering.

The bezels and gaskets: Little British Car Co. P/N 145-260 and 282-820.
The wiper arms and blades: Finish Line (ordered them ages ago) WP A and WP B.
From Defender: motors were 55027121212V and the control box 300265.

I was going to try to take more pictures of the setup but it ended up being so simple once it was done that there's not much to photograph! There are two mounting points: 1) The rotating motor shaft runs inside a non-rotating threaded sleeve connected to the motor case (you can see the nut locking this to the case in the third photo). Put angled spacer over sleeve, insert assembly into hole in cowl (from below) put gasket and bezel on top then squeeze it all together with a thin knurled nut (visible in second photo). This clamps the motor firmly to the cowl but it is still free to rotate so we need mount #2. 2) A piece of threaded rod, bent in a lazy J, is attached to the motor and then attached to the firewall. Now the motor can't rotate and everything is hunky dory.

The firewall isn't very stiff so I reinforced it from the cabin side and when looking for something light, stiff and quick I couldn't come up with a better idea than the cheap, stamped L shelf brackets. Bolted to 2"(?) square tube under dash and against inside of firewall. As a bonus the horizontal leg of the bracket was long enough to attach to the bottom edge of the dash which stiffened it up nicely as well.

The dash is coming off this winter to clean up the wiring and finally get covered so I'll take a shot of the inside but there's not too much to it.

AC Bill · 11-19-2012, 05:22 PM

Thanks for the additional info..

Did you feel that there is any need to reinforce the underside of the cowl fiberglass, where the angled sleeve presses up against it, say with a small piece of sheet aluminum? Wondering if that may prevent wear at that point, that over time, could eventually loosen up the motor?
Hopefully the pot metal bezel on the upper side, can withstand the pressure needed to hold it all firmly in place over time..

I wish I had pursued this system, rather than fiddling with the cable drive wipers.
New builders take note..

jdl902 · 11-20-2012, 01:53 PM

It doesn't need to be torqued too tightly on the cowl, that's why I could get away with such a thin knurled nut. There is no detectable flex in the cowl when the systems running. The cowl mount only has to take the moment and force from the motor weight, the torque reaction of the motor is primarily reacted through the threaded rod attached to the firewall/bracket. Other than the weight of the motor I believe the cable drive setup is the same with regards to the cowl and clamping down through a bezel and spacer.

I don't anticipate fretting of the fiberglass since there's no perceptible movement but if the clamping load does eventually loosen then a metal shim on the underside should be all it takes to cure it.