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Old 12-10-2009, 04:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Bleeding brakes with pressure cap -- How to?

I have the dual CNC remote reservoirs along with the pressure cap for bleeding. I have never done this before and am looking for some tips and insight.

What pressure do you typically use, and how to charge it (with a hand pump, air compressor or something else)?

Do you still do the longest run first?

Will an easy bleeder (check valve cap) make it easier still?

Any pitfalls to watch out for?

If anyone can just give a procedure that would be great.

Thanks guys!
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i worked for jeep, and we use to have a bg products brake fluid flush machine and we use to use 3psi that machine worked great if the bleeders would open. i have the cnc masters also
i had a extra cap so i drilled a hole and put a fitting in it and attached a regulator and hooked it up to the air hose it worked fine. just make sure you use very little pressure so you dont damage the master cylinder or caliper seals.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i forgot to mention the problem with the dual masters is when you are bleeding one the other one is just making air, so you can draw fluid through the bleeder with a vacuum pump, you can push air through the master and open the bleeder and force the air out, i think there is a new system that forces air through the caliper and the air exits the master cylindr resivoir.
if i remember correctly the bg machine forced air through the master then there was a suction hose that went over the bleeder.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I use the Motive Products pressure bleeder http://www.motiveproducts.com/ This bleeder is also sold by Summit.
I also have CNC reservoirs. Just make sure the CNC reservoir is full and pump the bressure bleeder up to no more than 5 lbs of there is plastic fittings or caps in the brake system. Bleed in the usual manner, starting with the right rear. If this is a new system be sure and check the fluid level in the reservoir frequently to insure you don't pump it dry. Motive Products says to put the brake fluid in their pressure reservoir, but doing this tends to make a mess when you remove the cap to bleed the next reservoir, It's just easier to use the pressure bleeder as an air pressure vessel and keep the fluid in the CNC full. Do not pump the brake pedal if there is air pressure from the pressure bleeder on the brake system.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I just use my air compressor turned down to 5-10psi output. Drilled a hole in a spare CNC cap and connected a barbed fitting and connected to a air nozzle via a 8 foot piece of rubber tubing. Then you can be at each wheel and apply pressure to the system open the bleeder and then close it and remove the pressure. Check the fluid level frequently esp if the system was dry to start.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies guys, one question, should I just clamp the pedal part way down to leave the master cylinder open or is pumping required (not sure of the valve structure)?
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies guys, one question, should I just clamp the pedal part way down to leave the master cylinder open or is pumping required (not sure of the valve structure)?
Do not pump or touch the brake pedal if there is air pressure from the pressure bleeder on the brake system.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So, for my own clarification, if the pedal is at its natural (untouched) position it will allow fluid to fill and pass thru the master cylinder?
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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When I bled my brakes I used my compressor turned way down. Worked fine.
Recently bled my clutch, did the same thing and blew the top off the master.
About to redo the rear brakes. Bought a small hand pump, for $14 it just feels safer.

J, what is the issue with pressure and pumping the brake pedal?

Arch
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So, for my own clarification, if the pedal is at its natural (untouched) position it will allow fluid to fill and pass thru the master cylinder?
Yes. If this is a new system, be sure an bench bleed the master cylinder prior to installing.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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J, what is the issue with pressure and pumping the brake pedal?

Arch
If the brake pedal is pushed when pressurizing with a pressure bleed system, it can pressurize the area behind the piston and cause the seal to blow out at the push rod end.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mr. Persons, great information as usual. Thanks
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I just purchased a V-12 Brake & Clutch Bleeder that is advertised to be the ultimate one man bleeder (brakebleeder.com option V-12 DIY). The one I bought is the cheaper plastic unit. This bleeder pushes fluid from the caliper toward the master cylinder. Of all the other odd stuff I've bought for my build I figured this was a relatively inexpensive investment if it will help with my brake issues. I'll try it out tomorrow.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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has anyone tried the system that pumps fluid backward from caliper to the master cly. saw it on one of the sunday morning car shows pheonix or something like that
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Jim,

Please let us know how it works. It makes sense to me to fill from the bottom and force the air up through the system since it naturally wants to rise.

Keep us posted.

Thanks to everyone else for their input too!
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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FROM BRIAN@FORTES;
I recomend useing a spare air tank, like 5 gallons or more u can get at Walmart, Home Depot etc. and filling the tank w/ 2 psi air pressure, then use the tire chuck on the tank to add air through your bleeder cap and open and close the bleeders ( farthest from master first ) one at a time untill no air bubbles come out the bleeder screws, just a solid stream of brake fluid, then close the bleeder. make sure you keep checking the master cyl to make sure it does not run out of fluid while you are bleeding it. Before opening the bleeder cap to check fluid level, release air pressure by pressing down on the schraeder valve in the bleeder cap.
DO NOT step on the brake pedal while you are bleeding the brakes this way.......I hope i've been of some help..........Brian@Fortes
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Persons View Post
I use the Motive Products pressure bleeder http://www.motiveproducts.com/ This bleeder is also sold by Summit.
I also have CNC reservoirs. Just make sure the CNC reservoir is full and pump the pressure bleeder up to no more than 5 lbs of there is plastic fittings or caps in the brake system. Bleed in the usual manner, starting with the right rear. If this is a new system be sure and check the fluid level in the reservoir frequently to insure you don't pump it dry. Motive Products says to put the brake fluid in their pressure reservoir, but doing this tends to make a mess when you remove the cap to bleed the next reservoir, It's just easier to use the pressure bleeder as an air pressure vessel and keep the fluid in the CNC full. Do not pump the brake pedal if there is air pressure from the pressure bleeder on the brake system.
I also used the Motive pressure bleeder...Works great..I did not bench bled the masters and pumped it up to 10 psi according to the instructions..Opened the master bleed screw with clear tubing attached and out came the air..moved on to the rear and so forth..pedal is rock hard..If you flared you brake lines correctly its very easy...To not make a mess when releasing the pressure open the top jugvery slowly NOT the cap attached to reservoir..Don't ask how I know this...
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Will this method work with ABS, and a proportioning valve?
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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As mentioned earlier - I just used a spare cap to connect a tube to a small regulator. 3-5 psi worked great to bleed the brakes.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Let me add my comments to this. Make sure you do not use too much pressure. I did and blew off the cap inside my cockpit! What a mess.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Will this method work with ABS, and a proportioning valve?
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FROM BRIAN@FORTES;
It will work w/ abs + prop. valve, abs unit might have bleeders and should be bled there first, then at the wheels. Be careful, if no fluid comes out @ the wheels then the prop valve may be activated blocking that half of the brakes and you will need to bleed the other half of the circut so it "thinks" that half has a leak and the prop valve should release the blocked half. You can also try releaseing a prop. valve from the blocking position after releaseing any air from the bleeding cap and pumping the brakes hard + swiftly a few times........ but ONLY after disconnecting any pressurized bleeding system.......
I have also had success bleeding brakes using a Might Vac kit which contains a bottle to catch brake fluid and works by createing a vacuum in the brake system becauce you attach it to the bleeder screws and suck the fluid through the lines from the master cyl. w/ vacuum..........
Hope i've been of some help, Mike will be back from the PRI show sunday and even though I seem to be serving a life sentance in Automotives, he does have more knowledge than myself, but i'm trying to do my best while he is gone.........Brian@Fortes
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