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Old 11-01-2009, 01:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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My 110lb wife broke my Wilwood clutch pedal by merely depressing the clutch.

Last edited by tjmotter; 11-23-2009 at 01:15 AM..
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow, that's not good. I plan on going hydraulic clutch from Mike Forte, hopefully this doesn't happen to the brake pedal, keep us posted.

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Old 11-01-2009, 01:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Contact Wilwood and FFR

That part is a pretty high quality casting, but it may have had a flaw or a QC problem of some kind. I would let FFR and Wilwood know. They will make you whole and appreciate getting the part back to analyze why the arm broke.

I've had Wilwood parts on every race car I have ever built and they make high quality parts. I don't blame you for have some misgivings, but I have trusted those arms on race cars and so have hundreds of race teams who place a lot of trust in parts not breaking.

In short, you will be doing everyone a favor to let the vendors and manufacturers know about this problem and I doubt that the new arm will have the same problem.

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Old 11-01-2009, 03:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Can you post a photograph of the break?
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Old 11-01-2009, 11:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADRACER83 View Post
That part is a pretty high quality casting, but it may have had a flaw or a QC problem of some kind. I would let FFR and Wilwood know. They will make you whole and appreciate getting the part back to analyze why the arm broke.

I've had Wilwood parts on every race car I have ever built and they make high quality parts. I don't blame you for have some misgivings, but I have trusted those arms on race cars and so have hundreds of race teams who place a lot of trust in parts not breaking.

In short, you will be doing everyone a favor to let the vendors and manufacturers know about this problem and I doubt that the new arm will have the same problem.

Ron
X-2 here....

Get that pedal and assembly back to Wilwood or FFR and I'm absolutely certain that replacements will be on their way to you.

I've trusted Wilwood and Tilton for their pedal assemblies ever since they started making/selling them and never had a problem with either one.. Yours is absolutely the very first I had ever even heard of...
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi,
As Randy said I've never seen that happen, We all trust these pedals with our lives while braking. The clutch is really a bummer but it doesn't stop the car.
I would call Wilwood & FFR like others said and get your broken pedal examined.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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pic attached

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Old 11-01-2009, 03:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I smell the Bilstein-like scenario starting all over again.
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is another pic of the break. I see no obvious air bubbles or manufacturing defects.

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Old 11-01-2009, 10:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hate to say this but this is not the first one I have seen. Wont say any more. I would reccomend hydraulic clutch though
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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How hard is it to add a hydraulic clutch "later" on in the build?? or even after body done??
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Here is a pic to show the location

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Old 11-02-2009, 03:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Factory Five came through with a replacement pedal.

GREAT SERVICE!!!

Last edited by tjmotter; 11-23-2009 at 01:19 AM..
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Factory Five came through with a replacement pedal.

GREAT SERVICE!!!
Very glad to hear this, but did they have anything to say about why it might have failed, i.e. fitness for service in terms of the torque applied, whether they had heard of other failures, etc.? Do they want the broken pedal sent back to be analyzed? Finally are you planning to go hydraulic with the replacement pedal or re-install the cable quadrant?

Clearly something that the rest of us Mk3.1 Complete Kit builders need to pay attention to!

Thanks,

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Old 11-02-2009, 06:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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delete

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Old 11-02-2009, 06:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info.

Does Mike Forte's kit include any way to have a clutch safety switch wired in, e.g. using a pressure switch plumbed into the hydraulics?

I too am at a stage where swapping the cable setup to hydraulics is easy but best done now if I am going to do it. Two considerations that I'm mulling over are that the clutch master cylinder will come in the way of the clutch safety switch that I've wired up, and as well will come in the way of the Cobra Earl footbox ventilation system as I have it layed out. Both can be fixed, but are additional hassles.

By the way, not to change the subject, but where in Houston are you located? I live southwest of the city, in the Sienna Plantation area.
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I use a Wilwood clutch slave, and tried a couple of different master cylinder sizes. Wilwood recommended the 3/4" master, but it didn't give enough throw, and the pedal pressure was way too light. If felt almost like there was nothing connected to the pedal. I settled on the 1" Wilwood MC, it gave enough throw to disengage the clutch and gave a good clutch pedal feel, and is quite similar to a Mustang with a cable system. I don't use a pedal stop with the Wilwood system, after measuring the throw I found that it wasn't necessary.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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GREAT TIMING!!! I was about to jump back onto the forum to ask for input on the MC size

Ram - sending you a PM

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Old 11-02-2009, 07:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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GREAT TIMING!!! I was about to jump back onto the forum to ask for input on the MC size

Ram - sending you a PM
The Wilwood slave is 7/8" diameter, I don't know the diameter of Fortes' slave, but if it's the same the Wilwood size, It should have the same feel and throw as mine has, using the 1" master.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yup, Mike's is a 7/8 also so I should be good!

BTW, do you have any pics on how you mounted the Wilwood slave? Mike builds a custom mounting kit with his slave but when I looked at the Wilwood, I couldn't figure out how to mount it.



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The Wilwood slave is 7/8" diameter, I don't know the diameter of Fortes' slave, but if it's the same the Wilwood size, It should have the same feel and throw as mine has, using the 1" master.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yup, Mike's is a 7/8 also so I should be good!

BTW, do you have any pics on how you mounted the Wilwood slave? Mike builds a custom mounting kit with his slave but when I looked at the Wilwood, I couldn't figure out how to mount it.
The Wilwood slave is a little different from the one that Forte uses. I built a mount from 1.5" angle iron, and bolted it to the Energy suspension motor mount, and the slave bolts to that. I had to extend the slave pushrod using a piece of stainless threaded stock and screwed it together with a coupling, got it all from McMaster Carr. The Wilwood slave cylinder uses the same hole in the bell housing as the stock cable does, and uses the stock throwout arm. For the hydraulics, I used a AN-3 line connected to a 3/16" brake line through a AN bulkhead connector and mount welded to the chassis.
I removed the plastic bushing from a stock cable housing, bored it out to fit the pull rod so the slave sort of floats between the mount and the clutch arm. It has worked very well now for about four years now. BTW, Summit sells the Wilwood slave for about $75.00



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Old 11-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Mike's Slave

Here is a pic of Mike's slave installed. I am also using a fork extension to get the right angle on the fork. Mike has those too.

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Old 11-03-2009, 01:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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tj, how many times did U use this pedal before it broke?? I guess your can is not on the road, so this was just from trying if a few times??
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:25 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Larry,

I would estimate that the clutch pedal was exercised fewer than 20 times. The car was "kinda" on the road (if you count my driveway ;-) where it was depressed maybe 6 times total. The rest was simply at rest testing to determine the proper clutch adjustment.

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tj, how many times did U use this pedal before it broke?? I guess your can is not on the road, so this was just from trying if a few times??
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:30 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hmmmm, i probably have used mine that much. will keep an eye on it, if any other concerns I may opt for hydraulic, but I hope this is just a one time defect..
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:59 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Any other complete kit owners with this issue??? Any other thoughts?????

I'm debating the hydraulic change for this winter, but would rather not if not necessary, b/c my cable routing seems pretty good and I have a good feeling clutch..
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Here's an update on the clutch pedal break.

Factory Five sent me a new pedal assembly but they shipped the wrong one. Instead of the reverse pedal (MC towards the rear), they sent me the standard pedal assembly (MC towards the front). Unfortunately these are completely different pedals.

I also reached out to Mike Forte who informed me that he has seen issues with the pull slave system so he doesn't sell it any more. Instead he sent me a new push slave assembly. As you can see in the pic below, it doesn't fit too well with a Lakewood safety bellhousing so I will be pulling the engine out of the car during thanksgiving to cut it for access as shown in the other pic (found this mod on the web).

Since I needed a clutch pedal asap, I reached out to Wilwood. Unfortunately I got the "we regret to inform you that this pedal was not designed for use with a clutch quadrant and we will not replace under warranty" story. Given the fact that the addition of the quadrant adds twisting forces to the pedal that they had not designed it for, I couldn't fault them. $60 later and I now have the replacement part installed in the car.

For those of you who might be wondering if it would be easier to do this mod in the car, I spent a couple of hours trying to remove the transmission from the car but could find no way to get it out. The transmission could not be pushed far enough back for the shaft to clear the bellhousing so the only way to get in there is to pull the engine/transmission.

If I could start over, I think I would have bought a set of donor pedals.

tjmotter

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Old 11-23-2009, 02:09 AM   #28 (permalink)
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tj, if you unbolt the bell from the engine, and the trans from the bell, it all will come out the bottom. I've done it several times.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:16 AM   #29 (permalink)
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tj, if you unbolt the bell from the engine, and the trans from the bell, it all will come out the bottom. I've done it several times.
Thanks for the idea. I spent some time trying to figure out how to do this but the Lakewood bellhousing has a pretty wide flange (that requires trimming near the starter just to get it to fit) and it looks like it will hit the frame member that extends from the 4" round to the firewall. It might be possible if I let the back of the engine drop a bit. Is this how you did it and if so, how far did it have to drop?

Wish I had gone with a Quicktime BH.

thx
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:55 AM   #30 (permalink)
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It is really comforting to hear that Wilwood considers our setups as out of their design parameters. Are we using a system that is doomed to failure? Boy, do I feel a lot better now.

Ralph
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