Intake Gasket Leak...What Went Wrong??

[speed2much]

Title sums it up. I pulled the intake today due to the coolant leaks I found.
Before I replace it I'd like you guys to take a look and give me any tips or advice to help me avoid a repeat of this. I have to admit I'm not quite sure what went wrong. Pretty sure it's something I did. I've never had aluminum heads before. I didn't make a note of what gaskets are on it, but I have the FRPP gasket to put back on it: M-9439-A50

[johns427]

After you first installed it, did you re-torque it to spec several times, each time after bringing the motor up to temp? I also use black silicone sealer around the water inlets and remove that little extra bit of gasket around the unused bolt holes. Your gasket looks almost melted around the water inlets.

John S.

[convincor]

Ahh, "Fail Pro Printo Leaks"
I'll use nothing but Victor Reinz anymore. Especially on my FE's
You want the "Nitro Seal". Graphite on 2 side with steel core.
Here's a source I just found. Otherwise CarQuest sells Victor
http://www.engineparts.com/Motorhead...ff/gaskets.asp

another link to description- http://engineparts.com/p_performance_gaskets.asp

[nc1mike]

While your at it fix your rubbing fuel line. That could be a disaster in the future.

[speed2much]

Johns427- Yeah, I've never seen a gasket look like this. The engine has never been overheated. And it was retorqued at least three times that I can recall.
I didn't put silicone around the water inlets though. I figure that is at least part of the problem.

Convincor- I used the Printo Leaks () because they were recommended by Edelbrock for their intake. But I am more than willing to try something else.
There is a Carquest here so I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.
Would you still use silicone around the water inlets with these gaskets?

nc1mike- I saw that on the fuel line. It will be corrected!

[6243]

I've never had a problem with the Fel-Pro gaskets. I put a thin bead of RTV around the water ports at all 4 corners, both on the head side and intake side of the gasket, and I do NOT use the rubber and/or cork gasket pieces that span the block at each end. Rather, a good 1/4" bead of RTV, with a good dab down in the corners where the head meets the block, let it sit 10 minutes, and carefully lower the intake on. Run through the torque sequence on the intake 7 or 8 times (literally), and you should be good to go.

I've done this several times, and never had leaks.

Good luck,

Greg

[HookedonFord]

I am with Convincor. I just installed a set of Victor Reinz, tired of printo seals destorting. The steel core M-9439-A50 is nicer, but the same printo seals.


Victor Reinz Nitroseal intake gaskets
95186SG 1.20" x 2.00" Large coolant = Fel Pro 1250
95187SG 1.20" x 2.00" Small coolant = Fel Pro 1250
95197SG 1.28" x 2.10" Small coolant = Fel Pro 1262 $26.33 Car Quest

[mustangII460]

Cut that piece out of the middle of the water passage.

I use the same gaskets and do the following,

Use some RTV on both side of gasket around water passage only.

Use gasket shellac on the rest of the gasket.

[Cobra NJ]

I think the Fel Pro's are fine too, I'm using them, but I had to do a good bit of trimming to keep them from obstructing the water passage.

My guess would be that the obstruction caused a "hot spot" right at that passage, and from there it probably only took a minor overheating condition to make the spot even hotter, enough to deform the gasket.

[convincor]

The FelPro's were designed as a race gasket. They weren't intended to be a long term seal. 3-4 races and the engines are torn down. When first installed they seal great, but you can see from the pics what happens over time.
I'm one that never used end seals either. But, I've found that using the cork with "The Right Stuff" works better.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...egoryCode=2132
Using just silicon it alway's seemed to seep over time. You can see in the second pic the oil on top of the end seal "Ultra" silicon. When it was together it was alway's wet in that area.
Don't like the rubber end seals. To hard to compress. Add silicon and there like trying to seal with a worm.
Regular car FelPro's are ok, but I wouldn't use the race/performance gaskets for the street.

At 1100 miles here's the first sign of gasket failure on a FE.


Here's what i found after pulling the intake.

[Wade Chamberlain]

Here's mine! I've had the same failure once in the Cobra and once in a 351 mustang. Both felpro 1250's. Like convincor, I too have switched to Victor intake gaskets.

[speed2much]

Thanks guys for all the info and tips. I'm really torn now on what to do.
As I first stated, I have the $ 30 Ford gaskets.
They're already opened so I can't return them. After seeing the pics of the Victor gaskets they seem to look like these a little and they do have a steel core like the Victors. The Ford gasket is definitely not made from what the other ones were. I used the Ultra Black RTV for the ends and that was the only thing not leaking. It has the same temp range as the Right Stuff so I'll use it again. Here are some pics of the Ford gaskets I have. Please take a look and see if you think they might work. With what I have spent on these already it's making it tough to put them on the shelf and go spend $45 on the Victors.

[trevor]

there are a few mistakes:

Remove the gasket material in the coolant passage.
Put RTV on the corners at the manifold gasket and end cork gaskets
Apply the manifold gasket tack, snug down manifold, remove manifold, let dry, make sure its flat before finally installing manifold
torque in 4-5 steps
retorque after a heat cycle when the engine is cold

I think if you follow the Felpro install steps you shouldnt have a problem. I used these for years.

[JAM1775]

I agree with those above the Felpro Print O seals are not good gaskets anymore. I had 2 fail me on my 351W within 3 yrs. 6/8 of my intake ports looked just like yours...all distorted in shape as shown by Convincor's 1100 mile middle port photos. I know 2 other BB guys who had same failure after my first . They switched to Victor Rheinz. I sent photos to Felpro . They first blamed me for over torquing . Then the 2nd time Felpro claimed I drove my car in 35 degree weather BEFORE it fully warmed up causing cold air to keep the intake too cool during warm up. (?)

Ford Racing advised they too had Felpro Print O Seal failure causing them to enter into exclusive contract with Felpro for a steel reinforced intake gasket similar to Victor Rheinz. I do not have the Ford part # available as they only recently became available for customer purchase through Ford Racing.

No matter, Felpro's steel reinforced intake gasket is now available through Summit for $27.99.
I am expecting mine to arrive tomorrow swapping out a perfectly good 1262...not waiting again. Summit Part # Felpro 1262-S3.
You are not going crazy bud.

[convincor]

Those FPP gaskets are fine. You want the steel core. period

[HookedonFord]

I have ordered three sets of the Ford Racing M-9439-A50 gaskets, which are stamped Fel Pro 1262-S3. I like them better than the standard 1262 gaskets, but I noticed cracking in the printo seals, so I have switched to the Victor Reinz.

One thing that I found interesting is that the Edelbrock instruction sheet for my 351W Victor Jr intake has a lower torque - Torque Bolts to 18-20 ft/lbs.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../2000/2981.pdf

Also, this statement under gaskets -

GASKETS:

Do not use competition-style intake gaskets for street/strip applications. Due to material deterioration over time, internal leakage of vacuum, oil, and coolant may occur.

So I would recommend checking your intake specific instruction sheet.

[speed2much]

Thanks again guys for all your responses.
I'm going to give the Ford gaskets a shot. Using all the tips you guys have given me on the silicone placement, etc.
HookedOn- I've got an Edelbrock Air-Gap, it has the same info with it.
The Ford engine info also states no more than 18 ft-lbs. with aluminum heads.
I've looked at these closely and don't see any cracks in the printo seal on these. Thanks for the tip.
If these fail the next set will be Victor Reinz.
Who would've thought an intake gasket could be so complicated?

[Joe]

GREAT!!! When I put my engine together I could have swore the consensus was that FELPRO gaskets were the way to go.. I sure hope I don't have leaks once I get this thing running in a few weeks!

[hind sight]

Make 4 studs to temp install in the bolt holes on each end of the head.
This makes seting the intake down with less chance of disturbing the gaskets.
I always use a bead of Ultra silicone at the fron and rear insteaf of the cork or rubber gasket.
Little silicone around water ports.

Thread sealer or assembly lube on bolts. Tq in 4-5 stages till tight(18ftlbs)with alum heads.
Retorque after heat cylcle and check tq again after coule hours run time.
You will need to trim the water ports on those gaskets.
Maybe just lucky. But never had problems useing the print seal felpros? As long as you go back and check tq.

[fastmerc]

OK, sorry to dredge this post out of the weeds, but I wanted to try and capture some data that I've collected, in MY search for the proper gasket for my Y303 Motorsports heads....

What has been noted:
Ford Motorsports sez "must use the -A50" intake gaskets with the -Y303 Aluminum heads.

Guys here posted that they are getting 1262S3 gaskets in the -A50 packaging????

I purchased, perhaps an older set, of A50's marked 1262S. (waiting for them to arrive.) Seller maintains that they are steel reinforced.

1262S3's are steel reinforced as well.

Here is where it get's funky..... just got off the phone with Federal Mogul Tech Support.....

1262- is a Print-o-Seal (leak!) version for SBF Fords from what I can tell, 289-351 up thru the 80's, std ports. 1.28x2.1" ports with Motorsports AR heads. Has early style water openings. 260-351W

1262R- is a composite "coated" non-P.o.S (I like that acronym...perfect description!) supposedly for the larger port heads, 1.400x2.250" ports. FIr TFS, GT40, N- motorsport heads on 260-351W. Has late model water openings.

1262S- appears in the -A50 Ford set that I bought, and is not available aftermarket, so was custom made for Ford..... Tech had no specs, as it was OEM..... I'll post what I can measure when they come in..... I believe these are also P-o-S versions. OK, received new gaskets. They ARE steel reinforced, and intake ports measure 1.285" x 2.185" Water pass is 1.275x1.625 (5.0L size).
They fit the -Y303 heads just fine and the RPM intake fits perfectly. REGULAR PERFORMER INTAKE WILL NOT WORK WITH THESE HEADS. Unless you add metal to the top of the intake passages, at the top of the intake to add more support.... RPM has these extra bits on them already.

1262S3- This is a steel reinforced version of the 1262 according to the tech guy, with port size of 1.280x2.100". P-o-S type.

What I find odd, is that guys here were posting that their -A50 Ford sets were coming with 1262S3's in them.....and didn't mention any port mismatch issues.

If you look way back at the first posts, the gaskets shown do not appear to match the head port sizes. I believe them to be plain 1262's, as when I matched up some old gaskets, plus some 5.0L gaskets, none fit the Y303 heads exactly. (They looked to have the mis-match as shown in the pic's.) The 5.0 version fit the water passages, but not the intake ports...either too short, or the sides stuck into the ports too far...... The early 60's-70's gasket didn't fit the water passages right, or the intake ports.....

So, if any of youse still have your gaskets handy, or some spares, and can confirm, deny, or add to what I've put out here, please do!!! LAST thing I want, is an intake leak out in the desert..... have already dealt with a cracked oil pan in the desert and it was no fun!!! Long story, POS pan, now someone else's problem.....

Steve

...now, to find someone that can weld aluminum properly with out turning my intake into a pretzel! Argh!

[TAnderson]

I’m researching intake gaskets for my X303 heads and stumbled on this thread. I know it’s old but I believe that it is still applicable and I don’t believe that the parts listed below have changed. My question; do the Ford Racing M-9439-A50 gaskets and the Fel Pro 1262-S3 work equally well?

Ford Racing M-9439-A50 Ford Racing Gaskets & Seals


Fel Pro 1262S3 Fel-Pro Intake Manifold Gaskets

If both are steel reinforced, have adequate port sizes and will work equally well, is there any benefit to going with the $40 (+ $10 shipping) A50 over the $28 (+ $10 shipping) fel pro? Plus auto zone stocks the fel pro gaskets so I'd be saving $20.00 on esentially the same gasket, right?

Thanks!
Tom

[Butch B]

I switched to Fel Pro 1262-S3 several yrs. ago & they are GREAT!!! No squriming(sp) ect, like other gaskets.
hth
Butch

[Erik W. Treves]

Originally Posted by Joe

GREAT!!! When I put my engine together I could have swore the consensus was that FELPRO gaskets were the way to go.. I sure hope I don't have leaks once I get this thing running in a few weeks!

I have felpro's on mine..just bought the steel core ones..just turned over 1000 mile on my fresh bullet....NO LEAKS...

[tomh440]

Yup, like Convincor said. My fail-pro's looked just like that.

[Jimsmidlifecrisis]

Been there also. I went with the steel reinforced gasket this time. To my surprise, I'm still getting some movement in the manifold bolts at 20 ft-lbs after 5 or 6 heat up/cool down cycles. So far, no leaks after 200 miles or so.

[TAnderson]

Thanks for the replies - going with the fel pro.
Tom

[Lex]

After yet another failure with the 1250 Fel Pro I'm going with the Edelbrock 7129. Thats what they're recommending for my Victor Jr heads.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7219

[convincor]

Ford Racing gaskets ARE Fel-Pro. Just repackaged
Example- FE head gaskets (Ford Racing M-6051-A427) $69.95 pair, are infact Fel-Pro Q1020 @ $40.75 each.
I've ordered both. Both have the Fel-Pro 1020 markings, and although looking at specs in Summit bore size and thickness are shown being slightly different(.001's) there the exact same part.

[convincor]

Originally Posted by Lex

After yet another failure with the 1250 Fel Pro I'm going with the Edelbrock 7129. Thats what they're recommending for my Victor Jr heads.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7219

I wouldn't Lex. The 7129 are just "synthetic fiber composite gaskets".
Go with Fel-Pro Q1262S3 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-1262S3/
They have a steel core.
From Federal web site-
Fel-Pro offers a solid-core intake manifold gasket for high-vacuum race engines, as well as performance applications that have a long expected service life — i.e., street machines, marine use or tow vehicles. The solid core provides extra strength and stability, and the gaskets come in proven port shapes used in race intake gaskets.

[TAnderson]

Ford Racing gaskets ARE Fel-Pro. Just repackaged

Okay I'm confused, I'm not an expert but these 2 gaskets are not the same. .06 versus .07 thickness, the water passage cut outs are not the same, they look totally different. I am not sure why the FRPP A50 have the Fel Pro part number printed on them but these are clearly different gaskets in dimention and design.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/39...9-A50/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel+Pro/375/1262S3/10002/-1