I don't think it's about practicality.This truck seems like a compromise on too many fronts, where as the Roadster only compromises in one area, ROOM.
I have to disagree. its an easy argument to say the roadster compromises on more fronts. rainy day driving? winter driving? fuel consumption? theft? safety? smooshed body panels?
With the truck you can still handle all those issues, the only compromise is losing seats for a truck bed and for someone like me with few friends and many toys, I'm seeing this as making a great deal more sense than even the G3f (for me anyway).
I understand this is a performance driven forum, but I think the utility fills a gap for me that would otherwise be reserved for a mini truck. and I don't want to turn to that.
I just reminded myself of something though. I had an idea to convert a 1979-1995 Toyota mini truck to a VW "taro" - basically a rebranded Toyota in Europe. The "Toyota" brand doesn't sell as well as "Volkswagen" in Europe. Mark could pair up with "Acme Adapters" and buy a ton of their VW 4 cylinder to 22r Toyota tranny adapters: http://www.acmeadapters.com/store_engine.php
...or improve on the design/production methods and outsell them and see if he can find an importer for Taro grilles and make a super cheap kit to run a TDI in a mini truck. He could go to town lazer cutting engine mount adapters to make an easy bolt in kit. I feel silly for not thinking of this sooner.
As far as the Smyth truck goes, wouldn't the Passat make more sense as a donor? Longer wheelbase and plenty of engine options (up to the W8), as well as options for AWD.
As far as the Smyth truck goes, wouldn't the Passat make more sense as a donor? Longer wheelbase and plenty of engine options (up to the W8), as well as options for AWD.
some european market mk4 VWs got AWD. you can actually swap floor pans with an audi TT or VW R32 and everything bolts up. I think rather than try to make a car a truck for the sake of the TDi, it probably makes more sense to put a TDi engine in a truck that already exists if you need it to do "truck" things. but I still really like the idea of converting an MK4 as I really like that platform, personally, and will never have the need for a real truck. If Mark wanted to have parts interchangeable and only need to familiarize himself with one basic platform, I'd think he'd stick with an MK4. If he needed a control arm or spare body panels or whatever its easier to work with similar shaped puzzle pieces. Not to mention a MK4 is a lot more fun to drive than a toyota hilux.
I was needing a pickup for smyth/personal errands...nothing hugely heavy...90% of the hauling is under 500lbs around here. Went to look at new small trucks and they didnt have what i wanted...let alone a diesel.
so the smyth truck got the nod. I want to take all this tdi/jetta learning and apply it to another segment in the car business. If a 45 mpg light truck that allows people to have a reason to rebuild an old econobox then it is the greenest car you can buy/build tdi sports car...check. tdi light truck...check. Tdi next? All we are doing here is filling voids in the current automotive grid. Seems to be working.
mark
__________________
Smyth Performance.... Go Green, Go Fast
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
I was needing a pickup for smyth/personal errands...nothing hugely heavy...90% of the hauling is under 500lbs around here. Went to look at new small trucks and they didnt have what i wanted...let alone a diesel.
so the smyth truck got the nod. I want to take all this tdi/jetta learning and apply it to another segment in the car business. If a 45 mpg light truck that allows people to have a reason to rebuild an old econobox then it is the greenest car you can buy/build tdi sports car...check. tdi light truck...check. Tdi next? All we are doing here is filling voids in the current automotive grid. Seems to be working.
mark
500lb capacity? perfect for the cb450 on track days! Loving the idea, but still have tons of questions.
Easy one: a running/driving G3F kit ready to ship to real paying customers! (Sorry, all this truck distraction has me ready to scream when the first product is still on blocks...)
Cheers, John
__________________
FFR1004105RD - world's first twin-turbo BMW V12-powered FFR Roadster
2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6.7L - biodiesel-fueled daily driver JHETTO: 2001 VW Jetta TDI, intended as G3F donor, FOR SALE
also the VW pointer idea on facebook is brilliant - that's an MK4 platform it's based on. Check out the canadian/mexican MK4.5 "city jetta" if you don't see it.
perhaps you can get in touch with VW of mexico for beds?
...perhaps you can get in touch with VW of mexico for beds?
Or just backdoor import the whole truck. Seriously, I have a math degree and I can't count high enough to put a number on the cars driving with expired Mexican plates here in Texas. Multiply that number by about eight occupants per car...well, let's not make this political, I guess.
Cheers, John
__________________
FFR1004105RD - world's first twin-turbo BMW V12-powered FFR Roadster
2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6.7L - biodiesel-fueled daily driver JHETTO: 2001 VW Jetta TDI, intended as G3F donor, FOR SALE
I guess I don't get the aversion you have to the truck discussion John, no matter how powerful you think these forums and facebook are...it is just talk. We on the floor here are working on the g3f 100% of our work day.
The conversation won't slow down or speed up the g3f....really.. I eat lunch for a half hour a day too. There is an argument that a bit of conversation about a healthy and robust product line gets me to invest more $ in smyth perf.....much as I did with solidworks this month...and THAT speeds things up AND makes for better product. Just what we all want so sit back and enjoy the dialogue...it is pretty interesting stuff I think.
Also I think it is easy to forget that most of what makes these projects/kits so popular is that you get to build it yourself. I have a feeling that the EPA doesn't look so nice at diesel mini truck imports btw....I will pop one of these out in the fall and see...if I don't sell any at least I have one that I like for myself....I have a hunch I will do well with both the g3f and the jettruck. If you remember the g3f was not all that popular to some a few years ago that didn't see the draw of the diesel sports car idea....
What a fun day job.
Mark
__________________
Smyth Performance.... Go Green, Go Fast
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
Go Green, Go Fast!
Last edited by marksmith; 04-26-2011 at 02:01 AM..
Waiting on my sliding hammer injector puller from MetalNerd!!! How cool is this, a car project where you get to use a big-ass power saw AND a hammer to build it!
Had to get the sliding hammer when I couldn't budge the stock injectors from the head. Should be fun to use it, what could possibly go wrong?
Smyth G3F Beta-build: 1999.5 Jetta TDI donor, Malone Stage 2 Tune and injectors. Love my Roadster; the G3F will be my daily driver. Build details here:http://www.g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/
I guess I don't get the aversion you have to the truck discussion John, no matter how powerful you think these forums and facebook are...it is just talk. We on the floor here are working on the g3f 100% of our work day.
What a fun day job.
Mark
Mark, reading between the lines I think John is just going a little stir crazy waiting for the G3F to get done. Heck I'm anxiously waiting and I'm not sure I'm even going to build one, I can't imagine what the early beta guys are going through. Couple that with the fact that all you post about is the Jetta truck and it appears you've moved on. WE WANT A RUNNING G3F! Now skip lunch and get that thing done
__________________
As I always tell my boss,\"I can do anything with enough time and money.\"
mark, reading between the lines i think john is just going a little stir crazy waiting for the g3f to get done. Heck i'm anxiously waiting and i'm not sure i'm even going to build one, i can't imagine what the early beta guys are going through. Couple that with the fact that all you post about is the jetta truck and it appears you've moved on. We want a running g3f! Now skip lunch and get that thing done
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
Most of the calls that like the truck are guys that want a run around vehicle or daily driver that hauls small stuff. A 3000 buck kit is a cheapo way to be different AND get 45 mpg in a truck.
Judging by the number of guys that drive their small trucks huge miles it makes sense from a practical point of view i guess...but there is a bit of the "what is that?" going on....when you fillup at a gas station and have a jetta truck you will get some comments...and that puts a 25 mpg ford ranger to shame...
I think it is just an inexpensive way to have fun building something different that you can use every day....that's what it is for me anyway.
Re the g3f rear seats....there is plenty of room back there to put whatever you want on that shelf...just because I am not making the rear seat pad doesnt mean you can't two adults...no way...two kids...cake walk...bigger than a 911 rear seat area for sure.
mark
__________________
Smyth Performance.... Go Green, Go Fast
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
Already found a couple of rear-hit Jetta TDI's for sale relatively cheap. The gassers are even more inexpensive. This looks like a good one to me. I can use the bed for hauling stuff around here; LOTS better than my old Chevy pickups from pre-Prius!
Smyth G3F Beta-build: 1999.5 Jetta TDI donor, Malone Stage 2 Tune and injectors. Love my Roadster; the G3F will be my daily driver. Build details here:http://www.g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/
Have you guys seen the 28mpg Cummins diesel powered Nissan Titan? It will be interesting to see if this gets certified for the U.S... Over 30mpg highway expected. Everyone got tired of waiting years on the bufugly Mahindra to get over here, so this might be a very attractive alternative from proven manufacturers.
In a twist of irony, the Titan is built in Mississippi and the Cummins is built in Indiana, in some ways making this Nissan more American than any domestic pickup you can buy! I continue to predict that the first major manufacturer to build this kind of a combo (half-ton truck, small turbodiesel) will have a waiting list of anxious customers. That effect will be further magnified by using a known leader in the engine industry, such as Cummins. I'm not holding my breath, but this has potential.
Cheers, John
__________________
FFR1004105RD - world's first twin-turbo BMW V12-powered FFR Roadster
2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6.7L - biodiesel-fueled daily driver JHETTO: 2001 VW Jetta TDI, intended as G3F donor, FOR SALE
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
I have been planning to build a Ute for years but have never gotten past the planning stage!
I was going to use a '95 VR6 Passat wagon, cut it in half where I wanted the cab to end and then weld the rear hatch assembly onto the back to close it off- essentially just cut a portion out of the middle and weld it back together. Then make a rear frame section that attaches to the unibody rails and probably a roll hoop to give it more strength. Use a piece of steel tubing as a rear axle and weld plates on the ends to attach the Passat spindles and brakes. For the suspension I was going to use trailing links and air bags- so that it could carry a load.
I thought I had my idea all figured out until I found the 'Car Camel';
So then I started thinking that since this was similar to my idea I could do the same thing using a '95 VR6 Passat wagon instead of the Dodge van and with only one axle. But looking at the rear suspension of the Car Camel I think it would have a poor ride quality. So then I started thinking that I could just reuse the Passat rear trailing arm axle with its rubber isolation mounts- mounted to the fabricated rear frame. Just make a mount for the air bags.
Also though about doing it just like the Car Camel with two rear axles- but instead using one stock Passat trailing arm and another stock trailing arm as a leading arm.
I agree on the 1/2ton diesel, but nobody ever accused the automakers of being geniuses. They are committee driven and we all know the result of that.
Anyway, from a practicality perspective (I know people hate that), but a truck will require some different technology. The bed must be rigid - steel or a composite like the beds on Chevy Avalanche or Honda Ridgeline. Something like that is a must. I do not see a fiberglass bed as having the strength needed - because you know people will through more in there than was intended.
I just was reading through this and felt that needed to be said.
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tdi sports car...check. tdi light truck...check. Tdi next? All we are doing here is filling voids in the current automotive grid. Seems to be working.
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