I'm building some web pages to document the dirty details but I'll be posting some of the highlights here also. The web pages can be found in the link in my sig.
Nothing much going on yet, but I am starting to collect some parts...
I need to play with orientation and clocking once I've mounted the engine in the engine bay, and I may have to give up trunk space for the turbo. Sounds like a good tradeoff to me :-)
Good point, as usual Randy. I've posted many of those details in various places over the past year or so, but it would be a good thing to have at the top of this thread.
Mine will be a street/track build based on a 12V Mk4 Vr6. I'm building a turbocharged system pushing about 15 pounds of boost to get 300(ish) hp for daily driving and will bump that a bit more for track days. I'll use a headspacer to drop the compression to 9:1. My goal is to use low cost parts in non-critical roles with a higher quality turbo and pressure control devices, yielding a relatively low cost turbo system with high reliability. I spent a little extra money on the Precision Turbo 5857SP to get the high efficiency of the ceramic ball bearings, billet turbine, and surge suppressing housing expecting fast spool-up and a wide torque curve. I'll use an upgraded clutch (tbd), LSD, and stock 5 speed trans and axles, at least until something breaks :-).
For the cold side a 4" air filter feeds the 4" maf housing which connects to the 4" compressor inlet. On the pressure side I'll use 2.5" plumbing to the AAIC under the rear shelf area. First pass I'm hoping to get away with the stock intake manifold and cams to keep costs down, and probably upgrade cams and intake later.
The hot side depends on how much room I have for packaging when Mark gets done. I'd like to use the ATP clone manifold pictured above because of cost and ease of mounting. If I can't make it work I'll build a custom Y to fit the stock exhaust manifold to position the turbo where I need it, but that adds cost and complexity. A 3" exhaust completes the hot side including flex pipe, high flow cat and dual outlet muffler similar to what Mark has shown recently.
42 lb. Ford injectors, 255 lph pump and some mods to allow the stock fuel rail to work with the non-stock injectors will provide enough fuel without breaking the budget. I have an ECU for this setup with C2 software but am discussing other possibilities with some VW tuners. I'll post more on that as things develop.
HVAC, interior & sound - just stock. I don't care about music, it's just another distraction for the driver. Besides, Id' rather make my own. A new carpet is about all I have planned. The seats Mark is showing are comfortable and light, the same ones I chose for my 928 track car a few years back. They will do fine. Same for wheels & tires, Mark's choices look good to me. I will need a spare set of wheels with Michelin X-Ice for the winter, probably skinny little 205's, and another spare set of wheels for the track tires, probably Hoosiers, as fat as I can fit in the wheel wells.
Colors are still up in the air. I like the candy apple red that was used on some of the early renderings, but have also been looking at some stunning orange roadsters lately. Whatever color it is, I'll spray paint it and probably use a clear film on the nose to help keep the rock chips down. I'll probably be doing some body mods, too. Brake cooling ducts, cold air intake duct, maybe even some mods to the nose to get the hot air out the top instead of under the car. Rear wing, front air dam, splitter, front winglets are all under consideration. I live on a long dirt road so all of these mods need to be dirt road friendly. Two inch ground clearances don't work here.
Of course all of this is subject to change as things develop. It will be real interesting watching the other beta builders to see what they do.
"I'd like to use the ATP clone manifold pictured above because of cost and ease of mounting"
choice location for the external waste gate, but I can't help but think about how the trunk wouldnt be a concern at all with a more remote setup, as well as better, more even flow across the cylinders. Most excited to see Mark's green car image can still have some balls. This idea really epitomizes the diversity of build options.
Smyth G3F Beta-build: 1999.5 Jetta TDI donor, Malone Stage 2 Tune and injectors. Love my Roadster; the G3F will be my daily driver. Build details here:http://www.g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/
Yes, that's mine. (!!!) I'm not exactly sure what is shipping but I expect the top, door tops, triangle behind the front wheel, and exhaust to be missing. Maybe a few other small parts. I expect most of the rest will be ready - assuming it comes back from powder coating!
Smyth G3F Beta-build: 1999.5 Jetta TDI donor, Malone Stage 2 Tune and injectors. Love my Roadster; the G3F will be my daily driver. Build details here:http://www.g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/
We made our third annual visit to Smyth Performance this morning, and this time we came home with a kit! Or at least most of a kit, a few items are on the backorder list, but enough for me to get started building!
We spent a couple of hours talking with Mark and the guys before loading up and heading home. Mark's putting together a great team while building the foundation of a new company. It's looking good, Mark!
I have a few new pics to add but have been too busy to get them out of the camera. I'm almost ready to cut, just waiting on front end parts from Wareham so I can make it a roller asap after the cut.
Bill, the cutting up of the donor Jetta is about the most fun part of the build! Have a blast; hope you have a few friends to cheer you on, and to help LIFT the severed head at the appropriate time. Good luck!
Smyth G3F Beta-build: 1999.5 Jetta TDI donor, Malone Stage 2 Tune and injectors. Love my Roadster; the G3F will be my daily driver. Build details here:http://www.g3f-jlphil.blogspot.com/
Looing good, Bill! We have been working on a solution for the clutch pedal yesterday and this morning. Once you drop the dash, the top of the clutch pedal may scrape against the wiring harness' plastic shroud up above the pedals. It should be a fairly simple fix, but we're working on how to do it right the first time. Lots of ideas, and a few good ones. I'm thinking that the clutch interlock switch bracket (the upper clutch switch bracket) could easily be modified to push the shroud up. Alternately there are a few other unused brackets that we can use to help prop up the plastic shroud. The shroud only needs to come up a little on our G3F - about 1/4" to 1/3"... but without this slight modification it's only a matter of time before the top of the clutch pedal wears through the shroud.
A simpler idea is to eliminate the clutch interlock switch by jumpering or connecting the requisite wires. After eliminating the switch, we could just cut off the top tab on the pedal to eliminate the interference. This comes with the obvious downside of eliminating a "safety" feature and therefore creating a liability problem.
It may also help you guys to know that the clutch interlock and position switches will self-adjust in one direction only: IN. If you press the switch in too far, it will need to be pulled out before installation so that the pedal pushes it into the correct position/calibration.
More soon!
Last edited by manual_tranny; 03-26-2012 at 03:53 PM..
A simpler idea is to eliminate the clutch interlock switch by jumpering or connecting the requisite wires. After eliminating the switch, we could just cut off the top tab on the pedal to eliminate the interference. This comes with the obvious downside of eliminating a "safety" feature and therefore creating a liability problem.
Wait... You're worried about eliminating the clutch safety switch, but not about building a car on a cut unibody that has undergone zero post-chop testing? Thanks for the chuckle.
Cheers, John
__________________
FFR1004105RD - world's first twin-turbo BMW V12-powered FFR Roadster
2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6.7L - biodiesel-fueled daily driver JHETTO: 2001 VW Jetta TDI, intended as G3F donor, FOR SALE
Wait... You're worried about eliminating the clutch safety switch, but not about building a car on a cut unibody that has undergone zero post-chop testing? Thanks for the chuckle.
Cheers, John
True, but I'd rather have a clutch safety switch if at all possible. I've seen too many bone-head moves by folks without a switch. If we can eliminate one little safety issue, why not?
(Yes, I realize everyone will have their own safety threshold. I know a bunch of hot rod owners without a clutch / neutral switch that have never had an issue.)
True, but I'd rather have a clutch safety switch if at all possible. I've seen too many bone-head moves by folks without a switch. If we can eliminate one little safety issue, why not?
We are really down to the last little details at this point. The only reason I suggested that any betas might want to disable the interlock is that it IS a solution. It is not a good solution, but it will obviously get the car on the road if necessary.
It is not necessary anymore. I have a simple pattern that we will have laser cut and bent into place. It attaches on the same 10mm stud as the clutch interlock bracket and fits together with the interlock bracket to push the plastic shroud out of the way just enough for stock clutch pedal clearance.
It's not a thing of beauty, but it's also not a visible part. It works very nicely and provides the 2mm of requisite clearance.
Wait... You're worried about eliminating the clutch safety switch, but not about building a car on a cut unibody that has undergone zero post-chop testing? Thanks for the chuckle.
Cheers, John
I can still clearly remember getting into my stepfather's Model A pickup after church and being impatient for him to get to the car. One of the pedals on the floor (more of a button really) was the starter. I figured that it wouldn't work, and I was wrong. I was 9 years old, my sister was 7. The truck lunged forward under sudden and torquey electric power and caught me and my little sister off-guard. It was in first gear, and I was lucky that I was able to take my foot off the pedal before there was a real accident. Nobody was hurt, and the Model A was fine too, thank goodness. Of course, the main reason that the clutch interlock switch exists is to prevent children from hurting themselves or others while they are in the car unattended. Enough children have died from a lack of clutch interlock switches to make the switch a required item on all newer cars. I say we should keep it.
Lets talk about this "post-chop testing" you are suggesting. This has been discussed before! Here's the most recent crash-test discussion on Facebook:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Griffin
Have you / or do you plan on crash testing these kits or have you at least simulated a crash with modeling software like PAM-Crash 2G kit?
With the intensely cut up unibody and the elimination of engineered crumple zones, I really question how this car would do in the standard front, offset, side , rear impact and roll over tests.
There's a lot to be said about OEM engineering in this regard. Also, does the OEM front airbag system still function without needing to be re-calibrated due to the weight and CG changes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth Performance
I think the car will crash better than your average kit car due to retaining so much of the bumper to dash OEM steel and soft dash materials. The world of home built hot rods is not a world of factory crash testing. The decision on whether or not to run air bags is yours as the builder...the safest approach is to take them out and wear good seat belts. Hot rod guys deal with these issues all the time...if you need a crash tested car you will have to settle for an corporate offering like a tt Audi....this is the world of home built cars here....and that is the fun and challenge. In our world YOU decide how safe or light or bright this car is for your needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Edick
@Adam you buy the cars and crash test them . . . how about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Griffin
I fully understand that one off customs, hot-rods etc.. are commonly subject to backyard engineering practices, and that you take that on as a risk when you apply the welder and grinder to anything in the motorsports world, but this isn't a one off project. Its being sold as a fully conceived, packaged, reworked automobile solution with little to no builder interpretation or influence on chassis strength, integrity and rigidity.
I saw a Factory Five Cobra kit hold up very well after a fairly high-speed crash in SoCal 2 years ago, but those are ground up engineered tube framed cars. Until I see one of these crash hard and see how/if the whole thing folds up on the driver, I'll trust my body to OEM engineering for now.
I don't think it's that much of a stretch to at least ask the question if the modifications have at least been run through a simple crash simulation program (heck, the sub assemblies are already drawn in a CAD program). For all the talk of speed, etc... with this car, I'd like to know if I might at least be able to walk away after a 30mph head on collision with a wall at the track (or a tree on the street).
I still very much support the idea of these types of kits, and this is one of the coolest going, but I wish the kit car community would take safety to the next level by at least considering (and documenting) the crashworthiness of their products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth Performance
Adam I completely agree that oem cars are the safest choice...period.
Old Yosemite climbers have a saying: "Don't Fall". It's wiser to climb below your limits and never fall than it is to test your gear again and again by taking big falls. I apply this philosophy to driving and many other aspects of my life. I like to climb routes within my skill level and drive within my limits. Yes, a rock may fall and kill me or a semi driver may run a red light and squish me. BUT! Life is too short. Climb. Drive kit cars. Drive motorcycles. Drive ATVs. Go skydiving. Go skiing. LIVE.
If you're not comfortable with the engineering of the G3F that's fine! We have lots of enthusiasts out there who are. I'm an engineering student and one of our first customers and beta builders. I am a student ambassador for Kettering University, (#2 in Mechanical Engineering and #1 in Manufacturing Engineering). My vote says that the G3F is one hell of beautiful feat of engineering. It's also a better idea than turning 5.0 Mustang parts into a kit car. Don't get me wrong, I still have my FF literature at home from when I was 17 and first heard of them. I've always wanted a Mark Smith vehicle, and now I'm going to have one that I helped design. How flippin' cool is THAT?!
Cheers,
Michael Gallant
Smyth Performance Intern
P.S. Sorry for the thread hi-jack, Bill!
Last edited by manual_tranny; 03-27-2012 at 10:08 PM..
Reason: Fixed Link
I'm looking for info on the final door cuts, is that documented somewhere?
It looks like the windshield cuts will be difficult with the front doors attached unless it ends up being the same cut as the front. If I can just continue the front cuts through the door to the rear it will be a piece of cake with the doors on.
Have you made any progress on the manual? It would help having this info collected in one place, at least I wouldn't have to be searching around looking for info while I'm out in the garage.
And while I'm asking, has there been any progress on the top yet?
Lets talk about this "post-chop testing" you are suggesting. This has been discussed before! Here's the most recent crash-test discussion on Facebook...
Dude, you don't have to justify anything to me, safety or otherwise. I don't care about the car any more than the management cares about its first real customers. Many of us are gone as a result.
Sorry for the hijack, Bill, and kudos to you for being one of the only originals to hang on this long. I hope (and expect!) you can build the car exactly as you prefer it.
Cheers, John
__________________
FFR1004105RD - world's first twin-turbo BMW V12-powered FFR Roadster
2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6.7L - biodiesel-fueled daily driver JHETTO: 2001 VW Jetta TDI, intended as G3F donor, FOR SALE
I am always impressed by bill's great builds whether ffr or smyth based. The turbo vr6 car i am building for kim is similar to bill's but will top out at 300 horse. The hijack is ok in my opinion as it is a part of the project as we end the beta program.
Duke you are correct that I have lost a few guys over the last year(7 have asked for and received refunds of their deposits out of the 45 original guys. With the excruciating sale of FFR now complete I consider it a miracle that we are shipping anything at all...a real success story. Since smyth performance and my newly "all in" investment in Local motors all benefited from my sale of ffr to dave we are rrockin at 8 kendrick road.
With bucks to spend on quality guys like mike G, rob and eric I am no longer a lone car guy in a dirty shop....an amazing little team is getting it done.
All of us that are building this little car are having a ball so far. john p, clint, mike, bill, and bob n. are the final fab five betas. These true betas are doing the heavy lifting with us and will forever be remembered as the start of the company.
We are only shipping one a week so that I can finish the door inside cover and hard top mold. Since I promised a few guys rides in my tdi g3f after school vacation I better finish up the two cars in house. So far it is working well in that the guys are picking up all of the production work and I can focus on the molds. The truck kit gets a nod after hours sometimes since we get so many requests for that kit, but we are aware of the g3f being our sole job here. You are gonna have to let us have some fun after 5
A car that gets 60 mpg, pulls a sub 14 sec quarter mile and costs less to build than a good crate motor or gtm transmission....we are in this company betas and employees alike because we are creating something different and having a ball doing it. Builders build cars...buyers buy cars. Builders have all the fun and all the headaches...we can't stop
mark
__________________
Smyth Performance.... Go Green, Go Fast
I have sold Factory Five Racing to my brother Dave as of Jan 2012. I remain a huge FFR fan and founder but have moved on to VW Jetta based kits and the continued growth of Local Motors as my primary focus.
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