Time to talk :) Mark Smith

[D2W]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

Manual-tranny -- thanks ever so much for your valuable first-post input.

I'll give Mark a call if I can find some time during working hours this week to discuss whether I'm in, out, or just slip down the list a few slots to let him get his supply line in better order. As one of the first five, I'll keep you guys updated regardless. Sometimes things look different after some gestation period and some good rest, which is why I've been hedging my thoughts on this for the last little while. Thinkin' time.

Cheers, John

I hope you stay in John, your build was one that I was most interested in because you were having a pro build it. I was real interested to see how one of the first cars came out compared to yours. Why not just have your guy doing the build source the parts? What difference does it make whether you pay him or Mark to supply all the parts? Besides it would be a good experience for him so he would know what was involved and how much to charge a customer in the future.

[KC Wildcat]

D2W - Check out Wayne at Verycoolparts Distributor of the Coolest Parts for the FFR Wayne does not really need much experience, trust me. He as built and tuned numerous FFRs. He dropped a V12 in John's FFR roadster.

John - Next time you talk to Wayne, ask him how the gulf is doing, I still want to do that fishing trip - maybe summer 2012?

[Wayne Presley]

Originally Posted by KC Wildcat

D2W - Check out Wayne at Verycoolparts Distributor of the Coolest Parts for the FFR Wayne does not really need much experience, trust me. He as built and tuned numerous FFRs. He dropped a V12 in John's FFR roadster.

John - Next time you talk to Wayne, ask him how the gulf is doing, I still want to do that fishing trip - maybe summer 2012?

It's not bad at all, this is from June

[dukegrad98]

Wastebook photos strongly suggest that Beta #1 frame has reached John P in Florida. John, update us! What did you get? Maybe just as important, what did you not get yet? Detail us when you get a chance, then go get that thing bolted on -- it's just a dozen or so nuts and bolts, right?

Cheers, John

[John Phillips]

Yup, the frame's here, and it's a beautiful thing! MArk shipped it to my friend Ernie Bello's Motorsports business address in West Palm Beach, so Lynn and I strapped the pallet to my car trailer and drove it home yesterday. After work, heavy rain, so I just unbolted it from the pallet on the trailer and carried the frame into the garage.




Also received a K-member, steering knuckles, and brakes, so should be able to replace front suspension and have a roller this weekend...except for coilovers. My kit is coming more piecemeal than others should expect. As we all know, development is ongoing, and beta#1 is by definition the MOST early stage of development of the production kit. I'm happy to do it this way, makes me feel useful. More on the blog, address by my signature. Will let ya know how bolting it together goes!

[marksmith]

As it is working out the two real betas are building the first production part based cars with me. I am getting the rear subframes and all the parts to make a rolling chassis to them so they can begin their projects while I finish up the windshield and we all wait for the body.

Not what I planned but a nice easy launch with only two great guys to support with all resources as we do the first cars together(I am rebuilding mine with production parts as well.

On number three frame now and feeling very good about the dimensional tolerances etc. the windshield frame is a real detail part and the tool looks easy to use. I will put the production windshield part on my car and then pop two of them off to john and clint as well in a few weeks.

The bill of materials with every nut bolt is just about there but will probably have some tweeks based on john and clints feedback on type of bolts etc. I am testing the seats/a-arms/tierods/wheels/lights drop ship method today so that john and clint can be rolling next week...we will see.

The fancy icw coilovers were really nice to see in the flesh(they better be at a grand a set)...for those of us used to the koni remove and rotate system of adjust the allen key top adjuster is just a click click away from a new setting. Plenty of spring rates available for the guys that want to tune as well...but the lead times are tough....30 days...I will have to work on that with isc.

I also anticipate a few 1.8T related changes to the kit that clint will help me with.

All in all though a different kind of launch I am glad to have two such supportive guys(with a few more volunteers...but most still want a production ready kit) to help with the first builds. Every person building a beta who has talked to me so far is busy locating or tuning their jetta...fun conversations since there is so much to learn and play with while they wait for their kits. If you are building and not driving your tdi/1.8T/vr6 you are missing out on a great chance to work on and get used to these little cars.

Smyth the company will focus laser like on the g3f this fall and then the even simpler truck bed kit for a few years while we watch and see what FFR ends up doing with the 818. Dave and FFR seem to be committed to a path of several drivetrains both longitudinal and transverse as well as several different bodies for the 818 so that they can appeal to just about everyone with the new car...we will all see how they do in this effort as the next year unwinds. I have an interest in their success since my only source of income remains FFR.

My business strategy down the street here is solidly in the other direction as we will be vw jetta specific and will keep a deep knowledge base available on only these mk4 vehicles. This allows us a possible branching out into finished trucks or other vw jetta based turn key vehicles rebodied by a local motors design and requires complete knowledge of one platform and all its complexities and quirks. The only way finished cars can be done is with something like the truck....even the g3f may get into trouble with the feds if done as a finished vehicle with all the configuration changes...time will tell but the truck is a better starting point.

Thanks again John and clint...you rule.

Mark

[dukegrad98]

Awesome, Mark -- thanks for the detailed update. You know we non-Facebookers (all six of us in the world) appreciate it when you post a little bit over here on "the thread."

And guys...I owe you an update also, following my waffling two weeks or so ago. I spent some time on the phone with Mark this morning; I was aiming to chat last week, but decided to cut him some slack with the hurricane and all! Here's the upshot of our talk: I'm in. Beyond John (#1) and Clint (#2), timelines are still a little questionable. It (understandably) depends on obtaining a lot of the outsourced parts -- like suspension, and to a degree the body. I told Mark to call me when he's ready to go and we'll get the crate on its way to Wayne's shop, where my donor still awaits. I'm hoping that happens around the end of this month, but like I say, we'll all try to be flexible!

It's just proof that when you get a little discouraged about the project, a few minutes on the phone with Mark will reassure you and get you fired up about being part of the early beta. For now I'm looking forward to getting my build underway soon.

Cheers, John

[ixlr8]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

Awesome, Mark -- thanks for the detailed update. You know we non-Facebookers (all six of us in the world) appreciate it when you post a little bit over here on "the thread."

It's just proof that when you get a little discouraged about the project, a few minutes on the phone with Mark will reassure you and get you fired up about being part of the early beta. For now I'm looking forward to getting my build underway soon.

Cheers, John

There may be just 5 of you left... I broke down and joined Facebook, just for the G3F party. Glad to hear you are off the fence, Mark's enthusiasm sure is contagious. I will admit I am still on the fence and the closer it gets for me to take a saws-all to a perfectly good Jetta... the more nervous and apprehensive I get.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by ixlr8

... Mark's enthusiasm sure is contagious. ....

I talked with Mark today as well but it never makes me feel any better. I always end up more excited and I want to run home to get this sucker on the road!!!

Actually, it just occured to me, if we're all talking to Mark on the phone, how does he get any work done? I'm beginning to think Mark is just the front man and Kim is really the brains of this operation!

[John Phillips]

Got the test-fit and bolt-up of the rear subframe done last night, worked great. This is a tight, accurate, precision, beautiful piece of manufactured art I think. See what you think. More details at the blog, addy below my signature.

[dukegrad98]

Great progress, John! Congrats. I plan to spend some time over the long holiday weekend doing a lot of catch-up reading on your blog. Mark says it's almost better than the manual he is working on... You've got your work cut out for you this weekend, so good luck -- I look forward to reading how it goes.

Cheers, John

[ixlr8]

Originally Posted by John Phillips

Got the test-fit and bolt-up of the rear subframe done last night, worked great. This is a tight, accurate, precision, beautiful piece of manufactured art I think. See what you think. More details at the blog, addy below my signature.

Looks good. I guess all those hours/days/weeks Mark spent getting everything measured up and put in SolidWorks, that we all complained about, was worth the effort. Glad to hear it. Will be watching your blog for progress.

[D2W]

It's amazing how simple and quick you are making this look John Speaks to the quality parts Mark is turning out, and how simple this build may actually be.

P.S. John (Dukegrad), its great to see you back on board. I can't wait to see the car Wayne turns out for you.

[RedJoker]

Argh!!!! Unofficial word is next week for my delivery. My frame will be the first through the automated powdercoating. I still have some cuts to do and some clean up for the weekend but we'll all live vicariously through John!

Way to go!!

[4229GL]

exciting times!

[John Phillips]

Guys, thanks for the comments, I can't claim any credit for the ease of this build. I think the frame is the car: if that component was crummy that would blow the deal for me. No worries: THE FRAME ROCKS!!! I believe it's beautiful, of course, but the main thing for us is that Mark took the time to make sure the frame WORKS for the home-building guy. No strain, no fiddling, just solid fit with some coaxing to make sure everything is fitted into place tight and right. The testing and fixtures and manufacturing process Mark has in place should ensure all other frames are as nice as this one I received.

I remember the first time I ever built a kit-based car (Westfield Lotus 11 replica), it was a nightmare, so everything for me is judged against that bad experience. My G3F beta experience is exactly the opposite. Getting to work with Mark and Clint on the early stuff is a blast: imagine someone you respect and like as a friend that really cares about refining a new product until it's RIGHT, and actually cares about what experience customers actually have with the product being developed, and getting to talk with that person about the product and suggestions to help it along. Well, that's the fun in this for me working with Mark. I figure I'm the idiot-test for this build...I'm not too sophisticated as a mechanic or builder or driver, but am stoked about the car and don't give up or complain. SOooo, if a guy like ME can build this thing, then ANYBODY who wants a G3F can do it, too.

Just musing while drinking a coke, now back to the garage to see what I can get done! Happy Labor Day everyone.

[MikeyD]

Originally Posted by ixlr8

There may be just 5 of you left... I broke down and joined Facebook, just for the G3F party.

Nope... still at least 6

[D2W]

John, I was expecting a roller today, how far did you get this weekend?

[John Phillips]

No roller, cut my door tops and did some other small stuff. Will wait to receive the rest of the suspension parts before putting her on the ground!

[KC Wildcat]

Am I 5 or 7 on that list of FB virgins?

[dukegrad98]

Man, it just kills me that it has been two and a half weeks without a post to "the thread." I know, I know, Facebook and all that. I try not to look at it more than every day or two if I can avoid it. Reading the comments over there just makes me miss updating my old "stupid Facebook posts" thread... ("Raffle a free one for me!" "What about AWD with an Audi engine?!" "You're my hero, Mark!!!" UGH.)

But I did have some free time over the weekend, and spent some time reading the various updates scattered among the blog postings and inane comments.

THINGS I LIKE:

1. Steel cutting and frame production seem to be up and running smoothly in-house. Pace is slow, but the process is set. And Eric the welder has been schooled on wearing more protective gear. That's good. (And the FB comments were funny to read.)

2. Automated powdercoating appears to be on track. Apparently there were a few trial runs to get Clint's frame right, but the settings are figured out now and it should be easier and faster going forward. (I'm still leaning toward asking Mark for a bare frame.)

3. I saw a pic of Clint's frame on a pallet for shipping, but I don't know whether he has received it yet. Let's hope #2 has escaped the factory. (There is also some reference to suede seats - can we see a pic of those, please? Might be a good option for those of us that loathe cloth.) Mark indicates that frames #3 and #4 have been produced, but he is keeping #3 for the white alpha mule, to replace the parts he hand-built during development. Fair enough, and good for demo / sales / driving purposes. I don't think the mule has many miles on it at all...?

4. At long last, there is a lone photo of the hardtop back under development. Woohoo! Seeing that makes me happy, as it is possibly the most crucial component of the body to me. Weatherproofing is everything for a car marketed as a daily driver. And, styling looks pretty good, from the one or two photos we've seen of development/mock-up over the months.

5. Smyth Performance finally made an official payroll. That's always good!

6. John P. got his shocks and suspension parts, so he should be set up to have a roller whenever he has time to bolt things together. Mark says that enough of these parts have been ordered for all 40-something beta cars sold, and should be arriving from China in 30 days or so. That seems fairly quick. I'm not sure what the specs are for our parts, but am not too worried about Mark getting that right!

7. A bit further back, there was an FB discussion about a snap-in wiring harness extension that seemed promising. I am hoping there is follow-up on that; there is real value in not having to splice 30-40 wires if the right connectors can be found to fabricate something that just plugs into the factory wiring.

THINGS THAT MAKE ME NERVOUS:

1. What the heck is going on with the production body? I should look back and find an exact date that Mark released the plugs to the mold and fiberglass shop, but I bet I'd be right if I said it was "months" ago. And yet we have not seen one piece that has come out of the mold. What are the fiberglass guys doing, Mark?! DISCLAIMER: I freely and selfishly admit that this is important to me, because I'd really rather not pay for two $500 pallet shipments. It appears obvious that my frame will probably be ready long before the body, so it looks like my option is either slipping down the list or paying for two major shipments. I know I'm not the only one with this issue. Put some heat on the body shop!

2. It seems there is some question about affordable wheels that will fit the bolt pattern and backspacing of the new kit body. I earlier agreed with allowing wheels/tires to be a personal choice, instead of them being in a "complete package kit." (It appears that the complete kit idea is well dead, with a lower price base kit instead and a list of suppliers and discount codes for major parts that are not supplied.) I'm not up for putting a multi-thousand-dollar set of custom wheels on what is supposed to be an economy car. Did I miss a post where someone found a wheel or some adapters that will allow standard Jetta wheel fitments? Whether staggered sizes or not, Jetta wheels shouldn't cost much more than $100-200 apiece, depending on style and finish -- I'm all about a "jump on Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct and order a Jetta wheelset" setup. Maybe the right solution is custom axles/half-shafts that are the right length for standard wheels? That could prove cheaper than custom wheels. I'm just thinking out loud, but I am concerned about how much choice people will really have if the wheels wind up being a non-standard size.

3. Apparently a VR6 is coming in for conversion. I'm all for that, as it's good development work and the VW "race guys" will want this engine for VR6T setups, etc. We'll just have to keep an eye on Mark to maintain all the other production processes moving forward, instead of having too much fun playing with the new car!

4. Did I really just see Mark make a comment about the resurrection of the big pimpin' flying buttresses and the hardtop? Say it ain't so!!! (Tongue firmly in cheek.)

5. This doesn't really belong in this list, but an update would be helpful if I missed something. Reaching WAY back in the memory banks, whatever became of the discussion about a replacement molded carpet for the MKIV cars? I think Mark had kick-started someone into production on an affordable OEM style replacement, but never heard any more about it. Most of us are going to need new carpet, depending on age and condition of the donor car.

Thos are just my random Monday morning thoughts, off the cuff. Last time we talked a few weeks ago, Mark asked me to touch base with him toward the end of the month. I guess that's this week, so I'll find some time on the schedule to touch base and see where are are and what our go-forward schedule looks like from here. Stay tuned...

Cheers, John

[RedJoker]

There are a few things that I can answer....

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

3. I saw a pic of Clint's frame on a pallet for shipping, but I don't know whether he has received it yet. Let's hope #2 has escaped the factory. (There is also some reference to suede seats - can we see a pic of those, please? Might be a good option for those of us that loathe cloth.)

It's true, my frame was ready to ship a week or so ago but I was out of town. As soon as I got back on Thursday evening, I called Mark and it was on the truck Friday. It should get here tomorrow. I'll definitely post updates.

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

1. What the heck is going on with the production body? I should look back and find an exact date that Mark released the plugs to the mold and fiberglass shop, but I bet I'd be right if I said it was "months" ago. And yet we have not seen one piece that has come out of the mold. What are the fiberglass guys doing, Mark?! DISCLAIMER: I freely and selfishly admit that this is important to me, because I'd really rather not pay for two $500 pallet shipments. It appears obvious that my frame will probably be ready long before the body, so it looks like my option is either slipping down the list or paying for two major shipments. I know I'm not the only one with this issue. Put some heat on the body shop!

I don't want to speak for Mark but I think we're closer than you think on the body. I'm guessing he's not publishing that info until he has parts in hand to inspect. If you want the details, give him a call. Also, if you're an early beta, give him a call about shipping. Better to get an answer than to guess, that's what I did.

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

2. It seems there is some question about affordable wheels that will fit the bolt pattern and backspacing of the new kit body. I earlier agreed with allowing wheels/tires to be a personal choice, instead of them being in a "complete package kit." (It appears that the complete kit idea is well dead, with a lower price base kit instead and a list of suppliers and discount codes for major parts that are not supplied.) I'm not up for putting a multi-thousand-dollar set of custom wheels on what is supposed to be an economy car. Did I miss a post where someone found a wheel or some adapters that will allow standard Jetta wheel fitments? Whether staggered sizes or not, Jetta wheels shouldn't cost much more than $100-200 apiece, depending on style and finish -- I'm all about a "jump on Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct and order a Jetta wheelset" setup. Maybe the right solution is custom axles/half-shafts that are the right length for standard wheels? That could prove cheaper than custom wheels. I'm just thinking out loud, but I am concerned about how much choice people will really have if the wheels wind up being a non-standard size.

Mark and I also talked about that and I'm going to start with my stock 17" Jetta wheels. I have 225s on those rims and I want to get an idea how much rubber I really want so I'm going to start with those and then decide. Additionally getting Mark my rim data is on my 'To-Do' list so he can provide guidance.

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

5. This doesn't really belong in this list, but an update would be helpful if I missed something. Reaching WAY back in the memory banks, whatever became of the discussion about a replacement molded carpet for the MKIV cars? I think Mark had kick-started someone into production on an affordable OEM style replacement, but never heard any more about it. Most of us are going to need new carpet, depending on age and condition of the donor car.

This is a big one for me but I haven't really thought much about it lately. I'm glad you brought it up.

I'll be perfectly honest, I'm going to spend the least on 'aftermarket' niceties that I can until I have a go-cart. Let's face it, I haven't actually seen the alpha car so I'm basically building a G3F sight unseen. If I'm impressed with the engineering and design at the go-cart stage, I'll be more excited about replacing the stereo, carpet, wheels, etc. Besides, I really don't need those parts now anyway.

Anyway, I hope to be posting more updates in the coming weeks.

[4229GL]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Mark and I also talked about that and I'm going to start with my stock 17" Jetta wheels. I have 225s on those rims and I want to get an idea how much rubber I really want so I'm going to start with those and then decide. Additionally getting Mark my rim data is on my 'To-Do' list so he can provide guidance.

I read about wheel fitment on vortex almost daily, and you'll be further inside the fenders than a narrowed beam air cooled by just running the stock wheels. 30mm spacers at the very least in my opinion. interesting idea on longer axles for the sake of wheel bearing life.

[dukegrad98]

Clint, thanks for chiming in! Congrats on your car, and good luck with imminent delivery. I am looking forward to your updates along with John P.'s. (As for beta, I am supposedly two units behind you in line...which is why this stuff is front and center on my radar right now!) It's on my agenda to contact Mark this week for my monthly update and to talk about the status of my build.

Originally Posted by RedJoker

...I haven't actually seen the alpha car so I'm basically building a G3F sight unseen...

That makes two of us. Actually, almost all of us, though it's the early betas that are flying on blind trust. Even photos and videos of a mostly finished car are practically non-existent. But I'll credit Mark for getting the production line closer to running rather than spending all his time playing with his alpha!

Originally Posted by 4229GL

interesting idea on longer axles for the sake of wheel bearing life.

Unfortunately, it has since occurred to me that this is not such a simple solution -- it would likely require some redesign of the entire front (now rear) suspension. Unlike FFR's Mustang donors, where the rear axle width can be fairly easily manipulated, the IFS FWD Jetta platform moved to the mid-rear would probably require relocating control arms, shocks/struts, brake mounts, spindles, and more. I'm certainly no engineer or expert, but unless I am again missing something, it's surely not quite as easy as I made it sound!

I do not expect that Mark is up for completely re-engineering the K-frame and more to get the existing equipment to mate up with new mounting points for suspension, just to accomodate different length axles. Plus, that might have an additional unintended effect on the body, which is hopefully firm at this point. You see how the changes can cascade out of control... Oh well, it was worth a brainstorm. (Separately, I guess that it's easy/cheap enough to find used Jetta K-frames to install as replacements up front, such that it's not worth him building a tubular replacement to ship with the kit.)

Cheers, John

[4229GL]

I thought about that too, after posting. no harm in an idea though. and wheel bearing wear may well be a legitimate concern when spacing the wheels so far beyond OEM specs to fill those huge fenders we're all such a fan of. something to ponder.

I hear the concern of those not into the wheel scene, though. I think with the current situation we'll have little choice outside of either huge spacers, custom wheels, or multipiece wheels to get the proper fitment.

I think it would be really neat to have some signature "smyth performance" wheels through either 1552, compomotive, rotiform, or someone that would have perfect fitment, and be something unique to our little niche at a reasonable group rate.

[John Phillips]

Hey, do I detect expression of a subtle desire for a "slabside" G3F?!

[ixlr8]

My goal with my G3F is maximum fuel economy.. so I will be sticking with stock 15" wheels/sizes. I am guessing with the fender flares that the G3F has.. it is going to look real strange. On my list of possibilities is cutting the fenders off, doing some fiberglass work and having the fenders better match my wheels. Getting my donor running properly is my first priority, it is starting to look like Mark is going to be ready with my kit before I am ready for it.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by ixlr8

... it is starting to look like Mark is going to be ready with my kit before I am ready for it.

Hey, hey, hey... You must be new to the interwebs. You're supposed to blame everyone else and say you would do it different / better / faster / cheaper / etc. Quit telling the truth and giving others credit.

you have been warned...

[4229GL]

Originally Posted by ixlr8

My goal with my G3F is maximum fuel economy.. so I will be sticking with stock 15" wheels/sizes. I am guessing with the fender flares that the G3F has.. it is going to look real strange. On my list of possibilities is cutting the fenders off, doing some fiberglass work and having the fenders better match my wheels. Getting my donor running properly is my first priority, it is starting to look like Mark is going to be ready with my kit before I am ready for it.

I think you would be much better off with a nice piece of aluminum held in place with motorcycle fairing pins inside each wheelwell. super aero, easy to remove, and no hacking up those lovely fiberglass lines if you ever decide to sell or restyle.

[D2W]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

THINGS THAT MAKE ME NERVOUS:

1. What the heck is going on with the production body?

I asked Mark about this a week or so ago. He said they were getting close. I'm hoping they are taking so long because the bodies will be that good. Here's to hoping.

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

2. It seems there is some question about affordable wheels that will fit the bolt pattern and backspacing of the new kit body.

This concerns me too. I don't want to spend 2 to 3 grand for a set of custom wheels

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

4. Did I really just see Mark make a comment about the resurrection of the big pimpin' flying buttresses and the hardtop? Say it ain't so!!! (Tongue firmly in cheek.)

This was my fault. I asked if making the rear window vertical would allow the top engine cover to be removed. I was really just asking for my own benefit because I don't like the shape of the top Mark has shown so I was thinking of what I might build that would fit my needs better.