oh wow, i somehow missed the switch to front steer. that is very cool. but if youre still using the FFR spindles, you swapped them left/right i can only imagine?? i realize its kind of a whole different deal with a different rack but did you notice any appreciable change in steering input by moving to front steer? its something ive pondered a lot but really didnt think there would be room. looks like yours is almost perfectly aligned, great job. i also see now the woodward uses a hydraulic system, i suppose thats what i was wondering.
also, last question (thats a lie haha) you said you kept the FFR front control arm mount points but what change did you make in the geometry?
im actually planning my build around track (road course) use as well but trying to figure out which of my desired changes i should do up front while everything is nice and accessible versus just getting it up and running in the interest of a) in case i have to move b) testing to see what really needs changing - so i really appreciate your input!
cheers,
ben
The change to front steer was a radical modification that took a week of experienced time in a full fabrication shop. If you're going to race the car I consider replacing the entire steering system to be a necessity. Swapping the spindles side to side is simple...creating clearance for the front steer rack, determining the precise location for the rack, creating steering linkage, creating steering arms, moving the radiator and grille shell 5" forward, and routing power steering lines is the harder part.
The change to the steering system was inspired by the fact that the car was undriveable, on the street or the track, with the FFR steering system. The rear steer Omni rack was completely inadequate to turn a wide tire, and no one makes a stronger rear steer rack because of the basic inadequacies of a rear steer layout.
Although we built new control arms, we retained the FFR mounting points. The geometry seems fine, with about 1/2 degree of camber gain per inch of suspension compression. I usually prefer more, but with these 315mm tires, the shallower camber curve actually works better. My tire temps have been within 10 degrees across the tread face at all events.
Another revision we did was to create front and rear sway bars. FFR seems to prefer an extremely stiff spring with no sway bar to optimize roll. I prefer a soft spring with an appropriate sway bar and shock combination to control roll. I feel you get the added advantage of a more compliant suspension to keep the tire in contact with the ground ( better traction) and a much better ride quality on the street. Our combination works nicely on this car for sure.
Do you guys think a FFR '33 handling package could be in the works for the futurre? That might be a tough sell though as there are less than 500 kits built to date and far less than that completed I'm sure. Maybe a less exotic setup than what you've already developed, but a bolt in shock/torsion bar setup to work with the current suspension using some of your off the shelf components. You might need to start over with another kit though, your car can't be used as a test bed for "stock" upgrades anymore
This is really nice. I thought this was a 'juvenile delinquent', but that is a very upscale looking interior. We used the Kirkeys for the extra legroom and head rest. The supplied covers are on them but the seat cushions are not going to work for long drives. I definitely need more seat cushion angle. The separate cushion idea will solve this and also how to fit a 5'6" or a 6'6" driver without sliding the seat.
Keep posting your great ideas.
__________________
#365
Build site www.33coyote.com
Coyote / TKO 600/3.55/Torsen
Wilwood 6 piston, bike fenders
Boyd's Tank, QA1 shocks & Springs
Speedhut gages
Rag top
"Never let physics or common sense get in the way of a good idea"
ah you moved the radiator/grill forward, that explains a lot
quite disheartening news about the FF steering rack though...
Yes, but remember they are running 315s which is an insane tire size for this car. I agree the FFR rack is not the best but it's good enough for the weekend cruiser and affordable and easy enough to install. I have yet to have an issue with mine at the track and I'm running 265s up front. What I am concerned about is the ball joints. I've got a knock under hard braking and I'm afraid that's what's causing it. We'll see.
i believe they had 275s in the front when they decided to swap the steering rack...
my intention is HPDE/time attack and ive got some time before i start the build, if thats the path i go, so im just trying to take into account every potential aspect or modification ill wanna make up front. im an engineer by trade and wont be starting til late next spring so really cant help overthinking . but realistically ill just build the kit very close to how it comes in the interest of getting it rolling then make changes after some track time.
Something hilarious happened this weekend at the GoodGuys Indianapolis show. A local TV reporter took a ride in the 33... listen closely after the 2 minute mark
Have a few important updates on the 33. A couple weekends ago Bret won the GoodGuys Texas autocross with it which is always a bonus! We fabricated a wing and installed a Centerforce Dyad Clutch in preparation for the Optima Ultimate Streetcar Series coming up here in just a couple weeks. We're now working on making some decals for the race. (Optima just posted a story about us prepping the car for the race on their website)
On top of that, the car will be featured on this weekends Optima Faceoff Road America show. (premiering Sunday 21st 1:00pm EST)
Centerforce Dyad Clutch meet the 33.
Pictures of the new wing
Video of the Centerforce Dyad Clutch being installed.
as far as rear downforce, ive also thought a lot about extending the front edge of Lang's rear fenders down to a horizontal so it makes a sort of scoop...
just thoughts, always glad to see yall making progress and trying stuff out, thanks for sharing
I took the 33 to Putnam Park road course last Friday...ran a 1:20 lap time and 147mph at the end of the front stretch.
Last year with my 2007 Z06 with a warmed up LS7 and fresh Michelin PS2 tires, I ran a 1:21 and 137mph top speed.
I think were ready for Optima in Vegas
But I'm hearing rumors of a 1300hp Lambo and a 67 Camaro with 875rwhp and a talented driver.
Yes, the 33 will be at SEMA next week. It will be in the lot out front in the Optima corral with many of the other Optima competitors cars. This area is just south of the monorail escalator [you'll understand when you're there]
We will also be at the Goodguys event in Del Mar on Thanksgiving weekend. Last year was the first year for the fall Del MAr event...you would be surprised how many people chose a great car show over football, dried up turkey, and obstinate relatives!
BTW...Free rides for FFR.com menbers at Scottsdale and/or Del Mar. Free test drives for those with a check.
Come out and say hi...love to meet fellow hotrodders!
The 33 is all decked out with decals and is sitting in the Optima Ultimate Streetcar Invitational corral waiting for the race this weekend. (as you may noticed we edited the wing again) Come by and see it you're at SEMA. Our booth is #22589 if you want to talk to us about the car.
Correct on the tail lights...they are unmodified! As are the front and rear glass, the grilleshell, the hood, and that little piece of fiberglass under the radiator. Everything else has been..."fixed".
BTW...I bought the full kit...so I have LOTS of parts left to sell. If you don't see it on the car, I'll sell it!
If someone wants the whole package of leftover parts, the price will be nearly unbelieveable!
If I have to part it out...the prices will be just"hard to believe".
Here is the list I can think of right now:
front suspension
rear 4 link w/ panhard bar
Koni coilovers
guages
seats
wiring harness
fuel tank
driveshaft
radiator hoses
mufflers and exhaust
simpson harnesses
steering column
rollbar
headlights
exterior door handles
interior door handles
interior components [except fiberglass pieces]
steering wheel
I'm sure there is more...that's just what I remember stumbling over last week.
Optima Ultimate Streetcar Invitational results: 5th in autocross, 7th in road course, 1st in speed stop! 3rd overall (out of 60 high performance vehicles). Good day for the 33 Ford!
Hey George, how was the event overall? I was going to hit it on my way out of town but saw that it was sold out. How many people do they allow? Seems like it was not that many or you guys had a lot of spectators who traveled to the middle of nowhere! I would have. I'll have to make plans next year. Good to meet you on Thursday.
Small correction on the Optima results...we finished 12th on the road course...my stopwatch was a bit optimistic! The other results are correct?
The event itself is always awesome! You'll never see the variety of actively performing hotrods anywhere in the world like the Optima race. Think of Woodstock when all those great bands came together!
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. but realistically ill just build the kit very close to how it comes in the interest of getting it rolling then make changes after some track time.
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